MNRR / LIRR Long Term plans and Proposals - 2050

[AlanB]

Because the M8s are incapable of operating under 25Hz without melting down their main transformer and producing the requisite pyrotechnics . 60Hz ends at CP Gate.

Excuse me, Jishnu, and I might be off because for whatever reason the bottle of Plymouth was even better than usual, but I coulda sworn the M8s were specifically designed to run all the way from Penn to New London. Or am I thinking of something involving SLE through running?

The Cat from New Haven to Boston is 60Hz, not 25Hz. It's not the voltage, it's the frequency that is the problem.

 

[jis]

Because the M8s are incapable of operating under 25Hz without melting down their main transformer and producing the requisite pyrotechnics . 60Hz ends at CP Gate.

Excuse me, Jishnu, and I might be off because for whatever reason the bottle of Plymouth was even better than usual, but I coulda sworn the M8s were specifically designed to run all the way from Penn to New London. Or am I thinking of something involving SLE through running?

Your are thinking SLE through running - GCT to New London. As Alan points out, there is no problem running on Amtrak's 25kV electrification beyond New Haven. That is 60Hz.

Well actually what happened is that originally they were supposed to be capable of running on 25Hz too. but at the last minute to save on cost and weight they downgraded the main transformer to be only 60Hz capable thus making them incapable of running to Penn Station on overhead. Naturally this was just a few months before Governor Rell came out in favor of service to Penn Station. But by then the deed was done. And besides the Governor did not offer the extra funds needed to change back to the heavier transformers.

They could go back and ask for uprated heavier transformers for some added cost, in a few later delivery slot trains. But that has not been done. Or for even more cost they could retrofit a few with the heavier transformers.

But on the whole, for the level of service contemplated frankly I am somewhat dubious about even the third rail extension idea. They might as well run a few push pull sets with hand me down AEM-7ACs from Amtrak, once Amtrak gets its new Siemens engines. And that is where the whole angle for acquiring more push-pull, perhaps MLVs comes in. The Connecticutians have gotten a taste of the football specials which often consist of a long string of NJT MLVs pulled by ALP-46 and generally their reaction has been quite positive.

Maybe if Bill happens along he can explain better, but I have to wonder why it's not easier and cheaper to just modify things to handle the 25hz; rather than installing third rail, dealing with retractable shoes, and cutting the flexibility to run to GCT.

Short term thinking to stay within restricted budgetary situation, while struggling to continue to serve the established primary market adequately under the circumstances. The downgrading of transformers was a pure cost saving move to stay within budget for the number of cars required. The alternative was to cut the number of cars which would of course have made using any of them to Penn Station even less likely.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Of course, they could have gone with Alstom and gotten better equipment fully capable for less money.

 

[Nexis4Jersey]

Of course, they could have gone with Alstom and gotten better equipment fully capable for less money.

Alstom makes things cheaper but they tend to break down more or take forever to test....

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Kawasaki is just as trouble prone as Alstom products.

 

[jis]

Of course, they could have gone with Alstom and gotten better equipment fully capable for less money.

How do you know that? Have you been sending out RFPs and getting bids while we were not looking?

Actually Alstom these days is having a very diffcult time selling their commuter and high speed products outside France. Bombardier, Siemens, Hitachi and others are eating their lunch all over the world. They even lost the bid for the cross Channel new trains to Siemens for new Eurostar trains. The French Government is trying to use every possible bureaucratic trick to try to derail that and force Eurostar to buy what they obviously think is an inferior product. They are quoting safety regulations that are not met by even the current Alstom built Eurostar sets without realizing that they are already in violation of what also turns out to be a totally impractical and untried safety regulation. It is quite funny actually.

 

[saxman]

So are there any links to these actual plans? I'm especially interested in the LGA connection. It would have made my commute a whole lot easier. I always thought the Airtrain should be extended from Jamaica up the GCP to LGA.

 

[AlanB]

Saxman,

The originally planned monorail would have done just that, continued up the Van Wyck/Grand Cental to LGA. Unfortunately the nimby's killed that plan. Some actual now wish that they hadn't killed the monorail, as the train is much noisier.

That monorail was to have continued on from LGA to Manhattan via the 59th St bridge.

 

[Nexis4Jersey]

New York / Western Connecticut

Metro North

Projects to be completed by 2020

 

Electrification of the Hudson line to Poughkeepsie

Replacement of White Plains station

re-electrification of the Danbury line

Croton / New Haven shop upgrades

New Haven Union station canopy over tracks

Spuyten Duyvil Bridge replacement

System wide PTC ingratiation

M8 Car Purchase

M8 Bar / Cafe Car replacement

More Sidings / Signal upgrades added to the Waterbury / Danbury line

Replacement of the New Haven line's wires , bridges and stations

Double Decker Cars for Hudson / Harlem line

Overhaul of Grand Central Terminal platform areas

Downtown Norwalk station

Georgetown Station

West Haven Station

Fairfield Metro Center

East Stamford

New Milford Danbury line extension

Hoboken Terminal Overhaul

Hudson / New Haven line Extension to Penn station

Large Scale Rail Projects

Project : New Haven line extension to Penn Station

Number of lines : 1

Stations : 3

Projected Ridership : 60,000

Project : Hudson line extension to Penn Station

Number of lines : 1

Stations : 3

Projected Ridership : 30,000

Project : West Shore line

Number of lines : 1

Stations : 23

Projected Ridership : 60,000

Project : Restoration of the Main line

Number of lines : 1

Stations : 6

Projected Ridership : 8,000

Project : Restoration of the Beacon line

Number of lines : 1

Stations : 5

Projected Ridership : 3,000

Project : Restoration of the Maybrook line

Number of lines : 1

Stations : 4

Projected Ridership : 2,000

Project : I 287 Light Rail Corridor

Number of lines : 2

Stations : 14

Projected Ridership : 90,000

Project : Extension of the Port Jervis line to Stewart Airport

Number of lines : 1

Stations : 2

Projected Ridership : 2,000

Current System

Line : Pascack Valley line

Length : 30 mi

Stations : 18

Ridership : 6,500 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 11,000

Line : Port Jervis line

Length : 95 mi

Stations : 26

Ridership : 7,000 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 9,000

Line : New Haven line

Length : 74 mi

Stations : 30

Ridership : 112,000 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 170,000

Line : New Canaan branch

Length : 8 mi

Stations : 5

Ridership : 4,000 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 6,000

Line : Danbury Branch

Length : 24 mi

Stations : 8

Ridership : 1,200 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 7,000

Line : Waterbury Branch

Length : 29

Stations : 7

Ridership : 1,500 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 8,000

Line : Hudson line

Length : 74 mi

Stations : 29

Ridership : 47,000 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 73,000

Line : Harlem line

Length : 82 mi

Stations : 38

Ridership : 43,000 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 70,000

If your wondering about the Ridership numbers , they were either taken form the state , a private group , or discussed by Rail fanners and Urban planners via Skype.....were never that off i must say. The New Haven & Hudson lines factor in the proposed connections to Penn station and the feeders services in CT... Transit Oriented development , Growth in the Railway towns , Reverse Commuting and gas prices all are factored into the projections aswell , some TOD sites will add up to 5,000 users to the local station. TOD will play a role in Ridership increases along the Danbury and Waterbury branches and Hudson lines. Reverse commuting & gas prices will play a role in increases along the Pascack Valley & Main / Port Jervis line.

 

[Nexis4Jersey]

New York

Long Island Railroad

Projects to be completed by 2020

Helena Williams resignation or Firing

Signal Upgrades

Track Replacement

Switch Upgrades

Electrification of Central Branch

Electrification of the Port Jefferson Branch

Electrification of the Montauk Branch

Third Tracking of the Main line

East Side Access to Grand Central Terminal

Double Tracking of parts of the Ronkonkoma line

M9 Rail car

Equal Outbound / Inbound Services

Large Scale Railway Projects

Project : Restoration of the Full Hempstead line

Number of lines : 1

Stations : 4

Projected Ridership : 30,000

Project : Restoration of the Wading River Branch

Number of lines : 1

Stations : 3

Projected Ridership : 12,000

Project : Restoration of the Sunset Park line

Number of lines : 1

Stations : 11

Projected Ridership : 38,000

Project : LIRR Core line

Number of lines : 1

Stations : 17

Projected Ridership : 110,000

Project : LIRR East Side Access

Number of lines : 11

Stations : 1

Projected Ridership : 120,000

Current system...

LIRR

Location : Long Island and Manhattan , Queens and Brooklyn

Daily Ridership : 341,000 (Projected 2030 Daily Ridership : 570,000+)

System size : 700+ mi

Stations : 124