Mother with 5 kids kicked off Amtrak in middle of night

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Remember, assigned seats were part of the ACELA plan. However, the passengers complained bitterly and it was dropped. I believe you will see assigned seating in the not too distant future....and I doubt people are going to embrace the premise.
 
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UK High ticket prices?

London to Edinburgh aprox 400 miles - 4hours 30 - 5hours standard class/1st class ticket with reservation starting £41.00/65.00 ($58.00/$93.00) traveling by Virgin East Coast Trains - a company which receives ZERO subsidies from the Government and actual is paying the UK tax payer a £3.3Billion premium over 8 years to run this route.

New York to Washington aprox 300 miles - 2 hours 20 - 3hours 40 minutes standard class/1st class with no reservations starting at $49.00/$284.00
Hmmm...maybe Richard Branson is bored after selling Virgin America. Perhaps we could get him to start Virgin Rail USA!
Make it Virgin Acela and I reckon he or another EU train operator would take you up on that, problem you have is you only have 6 passenger cars per train, some UK trains run to 11 coaches and it is all about economies of scale when running trains.

Back On Topic - if you allow customers the option of paying extra [even if the cost of which is expensive making it vastly unpopular] to guarantee to sit together then you wont get as many negative stories like this in the media. You already have up to 3 different prices (saver, value, flexible) how many people actually pay the flexible price which seems on many routes to be almost double the cost of the value price?
 
If MegaBus can charge for reserved seats, such as on the front row of the second deck, or at one of the tables on the lower level, Amtrak should have no problem doing this.
 
BTW according to recent reports, Brightline will have reserved assigned seats which will be selectable at the time of booking. Gene appears to be quite a proponent for it.

Hopefully Brightline will become a leader in passenger facilities and comfort and others, some even reluctantly, will follow.
 
UK High ticket prices?

London to Edinburgh aprox 400 miles - 4hours 30 - 5hours standard class/1st class ticket with reservation starting £41.00/65.00 ($58.00/$93.00) traveling by Virgin East Coast Trains - a company which receives ZERO subsidies from the Government and actual is paying the UK tax payer a £3.3Billion premium over 8 years to run this route.

New York to Washington aprox 300 miles - 2 hours 20 - 3hours 40 minutes standard class/1st class with no reservations starting at $49.00/$284.00
Not according to some of the new articles coming out.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/apr/16/rail-operators-200m-dividends-subsidy

When you factor in the cost of Network Rail, and the money the government pumps into it, the whole system is still in the negative. Same problem here in the US on the NEC, everyone wants to exclude the cost of actual cost of maintaining the infrastructure. France cut the cost of the rail network to Réseau Ferré de France while SNCF operates the trains at a profit. Japan National Railway went bankrupt with the cost of building the rail infrastructure while privatizing the train operation. Weather direct or indirect, subsidy is subsidy, and having Virgin or whoever operate Acela is not going to change that other than siphoning off the hard to get, tax payers money as profit for themselves.

In regards to the high ticket prices, I'm going by all the news coming out of the UK, about how prices are going up and service is not.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/jan/04/action-for-rail-357-season-ticket-37-rome-95-berlin

Thats just one articles, 100's more too choose from.
 
On a message board where people routinely trade ideas on how to save money on Amtrak, I don't get why people are criticizing this woman for being a smart shopper and using Amtrak's bucket pricing system to her advantage. She says she "was told the crew would be informed they were all traveling together." Either she is lying and no one ever told her that, OR somewhere along the way Amtrak's internal communication system failed and the crew was never actually told that. Personally, I'm inclined to believe the latter.

I also don't get the suggestions that she erred by boarding at a convenient local station rather than schlepping all the way into downtown Los Angeles with her 5 kids. Maybe Amtrak should just eliminate stops in smaller cities and just tell everyone to board at big city terminals, since that would obviously make things easier on the crew.

IMO, this woman did everything right *before* the trip.

On board, she definitely could have handled it better. Since the train had just departed, it's unlikely the lounge would be full of drunks. It sounds like she made an assumption based on previous experiences (and trust me, we've all seen loud, obnoxious drunks in the lounge). But I suspect that if a conductor escorted this family into the lounge car, the conductor would have seen to it that there was an appropriate space for them there. It's unfortunate that she was unwilling to compromise for a few hours.
 
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I'm a cynic but it's either a ploy for attention or her detraining station was her intended station and she got a free ride and a refund (though if she actually booked further, then maybe not).
 
UK High ticket prices?

London to Edinburgh aprox 400 miles - 4hours 30 - 5hours standard class/1st class ticket with reservation starting £41.00/65.00 ($58.00/$93.00) traveling by Virgin East Coast Trains - a company which receives ZERO subsidies from the Government and actual is paying the UK tax payer a £3.3Billion premium over 8 years to run this route.

New York to Washington aprox 300 miles - 2 hours 20 - 3hours 40 minutes standard class/1st class with no reservations starting at $49.00/$284.00
Not according to some of the new articles coming out.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/apr/16/rail-operators-200m-dividends-subsidy

When you factor in the cost of Network Rail, and the money the government pumps into it, the whole system is still in the negative. Same problem here in the US on the NEC, everyone wants to exclude the cost of actual cost of maintaining the infrastructure. France cut the cost of the rail network to Réseau Ferré de France while SNCF operates the trains at a profit. Japan National Railway went bankrupt with the cost of building the rail infrastructure while privatizing the train operation. Weather direct or indirect, subsidy is subsidy, and having Virgin or whoever operate Acela is not going to change that other than siphoning off the hard to get, tax payers money as profit for themselves.

In regards to the high ticket prices, I'm going by all the news coming out of the UK, about how prices are going up and service is not.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/jan/04/action-for-rail-357-season-ticket-37-rome-95-berlin

Thats just one articles, 100's more too choose from.
Don't believe everything you read in British media, there is a push from the political left to renationalise the rail services due to the vast profits TOC's are making at the tax payers expense which are being siphoned off to prop up many still nationalised European train companies. All part of the anti EU rhetoric in the build up to this weeks referendum which has been building up over the last few years
 
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We cannot blame Amtrak for not being able to accommodate special group seating in coach on a full train. Where does it say that Amtrak is obligated to do this? I also don't understand why it is so terrible to wait in the lounge until seats opened up. In view of the circumstances it sounds as though the conductor tried to do the best that he/she could. IMO, the refund offer from Amtrak is a very generous gesture.
 
This still begs the question. Why doesn't Amtrak offer seat assignments when you book on line? Every airline and corridor or LD train in Europe does. Yes Amtrak has different car types for coach, but think of all the airline seat configurations just on one plane, like B737.
 
This still begs the question. Why doesn't Amtrak offer seat assignments when you book on line? Every airline and corridor or LD train in Europe does. Yes Amtrak has different car types for coach, but think of all the airline seat configurations just on one plane, like B737.
One reason maybe that for whatever reason airlines seem to have a equipment assignment plan in place that contains more detail of specific equipment type assigned (or planned to be assigned) to a flight several months out, and the ability to notify equipment change should it occur, and provide a continuous ability to change your seat assignment, uptil the time that you actually check in for a flight, and even after that with a little extra footwork. I short most airlines today have a more capable IT systems supporting operations than Amtrak can afford to with its tenuous financial position. The integration of backend ops support and customer facing information and ability to change such from customer and agent facing UI is quite impressive these days for many airlines. The downside of course is that they are also able to do much more fine tuned fareclass availability management and therefore make the fares available even more mind-boggling. The upside is they are able to provide precise availability information on a flight for dozens of fare classes at any given time.
 
Sadly, in our current society, most people are unwilling to take any responsibility for their own actions. They are always looking to shift responsibility on to someone else. Airlines generally allow pre selection of seats, sometimes with an added charge, and usually with priority to their better customers. There is a huge outcry right now that families are penalized because they may have to pay more to be seated together. Everyone seems to think their problems are everyone's problems and we are supposed to make everyone happy. It rarely works, and we might be better off if we stopped wasting time and resources trying.
 
This still begs the question. Why doesn't Amtrak offer seat assignments when you book on line? Every airline and corridor or LD train in Europe does. Yes Amtrak has different car types for coach, but think of all the airline seat configurations just on one plane, like B737.
Because we are not Europe, and our politics are priorities are much different than Europe.
 
Sadly, in our current society, most people are unwilling to take any responsibility for their own actions. They are always looking to shift responsibility on to someone else. Airlines generally allow pre selection of seats, sometimes with an added charge, and usually with priority to their better customers. There is a huge outcry right now that families are penalized because they may have to pay more to be seated together. Everyone seems to think their problems are everyone's problems and we are supposed to make everyone happy. It rarely works, and we might be better off if we stopped wasting time and resources trying.
Just being a better customer does not necessarily cut it. What fare class is used plays into it too. For example, I booked an international trip out in January 2017 using a mix of fare classes. So on one leg I managed to get an upgrade to Business First using miles immediately, on one leg I was able to get a seat assignment for an additional fee, and on two legs I am not eligible to get a seat assignment until 24 hours before departure when I check in for the flight. I could have chosen a higher fare class on those other legs to get more immediate facilities, but I did not consider the fare difference worthwhile for what I get in return.
I think the big issue is people are loath to have to think things through, and would rather have someone else do it for them, and yet are unwilling to pay for the thinker's services.
 
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I should have made that clearer. Better customer (to the airline) includes not only higher FF categories but those who pay more within a given category. As a typical example of that, a person paying full fare coach will usually get upgraded (automatically on some carriers based on space) before a discount fare passenger (unless other status indicators prevail) I totally agree with the last part of your statement!
 
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This still begs the question. Why doesn't Amtrak offer seat assignments when you book on line? Every airline and corridor or LD train in Europe does. Yes Amtrak has different car types for coach, but think of all the airline seat configurations just on one plane, like B737.
While there are many configurations of a B737, airlines know in advance what type of aircraft will fly on a specific route on a specific day. So if a B737-500 is scheduled, it will show a B737-500 seating configuration. If a B737-800 is scheduled, it will show a B737-800 configuration. If a B747-SP is scheduled, a B747-SP will be shown. If a B747-400 is scheduled, a B747-400 will be shown.
Can you imagine how confusing it would be to be shown he seating charts for "train 98, 1st car" "train 98, 2nd car", ... "train 98, 6th car". Then if the yard crew hooks up the train "wrong", putting the "3rd car" in the "5th car" spot, I'm sure passengers would complain. And how about if they have to substitute a car, like an 18 seat BC car for a 60 seat BC car. I'm sure you'll hear complaints from the couple who selected seats 45 & 46!
 
I'm not going to go through 4 pages of drivel.

Booking the reservations separately is not an issue. You can ALWAYS link reservations after the fact, and it's important to note that the reservation agent told them that the crew would be told.

There is nothing more ... less safe? ... than letting children sit with strangers. Take the recent American Airlines incident for example.

When I worked at Disney, if a family booked two rooms and one room only had children in it, we would inconvenience ANYONE to ensure that they had connecting rooms. It was that important.

I think the SA could have done something about this. Even if it wasn't planned for in advance, some discussion would be all it takes to get passengers to be slightly inconvenienced.

To say the woman chose to get off is as disingenuous as to say she was kicked off. When offered a choice between sitting in hard seats with the lights on (where people DO like to party all night), I think they felt their best option was to disembark.

Now, I don't think it's fair to ask others to just move, either. But, how hard would it have been for the conductor or the attendant to offer a $10 meal voucher or something to 6 people to relocate themselves? Oh, sure, the mechanism may not be in place, but it sure should be. The empowerment to enact service recovery for any guest is paramount to a culture of putting the customer first.
 
This still begs the question. Why doesn't Amtrak offer seat assignments when you book on line? Every airline and corridor or LD train in Europe does. Yes Amtrak has different car types for coach, but think of all the airline seat configurations just on one plane, like B737.
While there are many configurations of a B737, airlines know in advance what type of aircraft will fly on a specific route on a specific day. So if a B737-500 is scheduled, it will show a B737-500 seating configuration. If a B737-800 is scheduled, it will show a B737-800 configuration. If a B747-SP is scheduled, a B747-SP will be shown. If a B747-400 is scheduled, a B747-400 will be shown.
Can you imagine how confusing it would be to be shown he seating charts for "train 98, 1st car" "train 98, 2nd car", ... "train 98, 6th car". Then if the yard crew hooks up the train "wrong", putting the "3rd car" in the "5th car" spot, I'm sure passengers would complain. And how about if they have to substitute a car, like an 18 seat BC car for a 60 seat BC car. I'm sure you'll hear complaints from the couple who selected seats 45 & 46!
They seem to handle all this fine on Sleepers with things like Car 9810, 9811, 9812 etc. Indeed the Coaches also do have similar car numbers. If the yard crew is unable to put a train together according to a plan would suggest a lack of adequate management. In short I think this example and explanation is completely frivolous. There are railroads in the third world that can run hundreds of 24 car trains each day with assigned seat and berth reservations day in and day out. This suggest that when detractors of Amtrak sometimes call it a third world railroad that may be insulting the third world railroads when it comes to things like this - I am exceedingly sad to admit and say. :(

Oh, and BTW, in spite of all attempts to standardize, the US3 all have the same aircraft type with multiple different seat layouts. They are treated as sub types of the same type and handled just fine. In case you don't believe me go and take a look at Seatguru and see how many different 777-200s United has, just as an example. Heck they even have two or three different engine types with different performance and range too!
 
This still begs the question. Why doesn't Amtrak offer seat assignments when you book on line? Every airline and corridor or LD train in Europe does. Yes Amtrak has different car types for coach, but think of all the airline seat configurations just on one plane, like B737.
I believe that it was pointed out that the numbers on the assigned coaches are subject to change depending on how the consist is assembled that day or week. You can't sell assigned seats until the car numbers are assigned and known.
 
This still begs the question. Why doesn't Amtrak offer seat assignments when you book on line? Every airline and corridor or LD train in Europe does. Yes Amtrak has different car types for coach, but think of all the airline seat configurations just on one plane, like B737.
I believe that it was pointed out that the numbers on the assigned coaches are subject to change depending on how the consist is assembled that day or week. You can't sell assigned seats until the car numbers are assigned and known.
The "physical" car numbers are not used, the number is based on position in the consist. Sleeper rooms are designated a car and room number...coaches are designated the same way. The sleeper and coach numbers are not attached to a physical car number. My trips on the SL (actually the TE) are typically in car 2230 Bedroom E, D, etc. Coach seats may be assigned Car 0212 Seat #.

1/2 [NOL-SAS-LAX]

Sunset Limited

4 sets (9 sets CHI cars)

LAX pool (CHI/LAX pools, CHI cars)

----|---- —— Heritage Baggage

0131|0231 —— Superliner Dorm/Sleeper

0130|0230 —— Superliner Sleeper

----|---- —— Superliner Diner

----|---- —— Superliner Lounge

0113|0213 —— Superliner Baggage Coach

0112|0212 —— Superliner Coach

2115|2215 —— Superliner Coach **[CHI]

2130|2230 —— Superliner Sleeper **[CHI]

 
This still begs the question. Why doesn't Amtrak offer seat assignments when you book on line? Every airline and corridor or LD train in Europe does. Yes Amtrak has different car types for coach, but think of all the airline seat configurations just on one plane, like B737.
While there are many configurations of a B737, airlines know in advance what type of aircraft will fly on a specific route on a specific day. So if a B737-500 is scheduled, it will show a B737-500 seating configuration. If a B737-800 is scheduled, it will show a B737-800 configuration. If a B747-SP is scheduled, a B747-SP will be shown. If a B747-400 is scheduled, a B747-400 will be shown.
Can you imagine how confusing it would be to be shown he seating charts for "train 98, 1st car" "train 98, 2nd car", ... "train 98, 6th car". Then if the yard crew hooks up the train "wrong", putting the "3rd car" in the "5th car" spot, I'm sure passengers would complain. And how about if they have to substitute a car, like an 18 seat BC car for a 60 seat BC car. I'm sure you'll hear complaints from the couple who selected seats 45 & 46!
They seem to handle all this fine on Sleepers with things like Car 9810, 9811, 9812 etc. Indeed the Coaches also do have similar car numbers. If the yard crew is unable to put a train together according to a plan would suggest a lack of adequate management. In short I think this example and explanation is completely frivolous. There are railroads in the third world that can run hundreds of 24 car trains each day with assigned seat and berth reservations day in and day out. This suggest that when detractors of Amtrak sometimes call it a third world railroad that may be insulting the third world railroads when it comes to things like this - I am exceedingly sad to admit and say. :(

Oh, and BTW, in spite of all attempts to standardize, the US3 all have the same aircraft type with multiple different seat layouts. They are treated as sub types of the same type and handled just fine. In case you don't believe me go and take a look at Seatguru and see how many different 777-200s United has, just as an example. Heck they even have two or three different engine types with different performance and range too!
I've mentioned this before, but once I was on a plane where I couldn't find my assigned seat. There was extra baggage storage where my seat was supposed to be. Apparently this plane was the only one of its type from this airline with this configuration. Coach was already full, so we got moved to business class.
 
This still begs the question. Why doesn't Amtrak offer seat assignments when you book on line? Every airline and corridor or LD train in Europe does. Yes Amtrak has different car types for coach, but think of all the airline seat configurations just on one plane, like B737.
While there are many configurations of a B737, airlines know in advance what type of aircraft will fly on a specific route on a specific day. So if a B737-500 is scheduled, it will show a B737-500 seating configuration. If a B737-800 is scheduled, it will show a B737-800 configuration. If a B747-SP is scheduled, a B747-SP will be shown. If a B747-400 is scheduled, a B747-400 will be shown.
Can you imagine how confusing it would be to be shown he seating charts for "train 98, 1st car" "train 98, 2nd car", ... "train 98, 6th car". Then if the yard crew hooks up the train "wrong", putting the "3rd car" in the "5th car" spot, I'm sure passengers would complain. And how about if they have to substitute a car, like an 18 seat BC car for a 60 seat BC car. I'm sure you'll hear complaints from the couple who selected seats 45 & 46!
Oh I'm pretty sure the Crescent will have three Amcan-II coaches next year, and the CZ will have some Superliner coaches. Now the Acela, that one's tricky I admit. They might have Superliners, the Horizons may make an appearance, heck, they may decide to dig up some Pullman Heavyweights, you just never know with the Acela.
 
This still begs the question. Why doesn't Amtrak offer seat assignments when you book on line? Every airline and corridor or LD train in Europe does. Yes Amtrak has different car types for coach, but think of all the airline seat configurations just on one plane, like B737.
I believe that it was pointed out that the numbers on the assigned coaches are subject to change depending on how the consist is assembled that day or week. You can't sell assigned seats until the car numbers are assigned and known.
Assigned seats are possible. I know how to do it. I think management can figure it out too if I can. Amtrak does not offer them because it does not currently want to assign seats, not because they can't. (I don't know what managements or marketings reasoning is on not having assigned seats) Some day they might decide to do assigned seats. Charge extra for assigned seats. Personally I don't have any strong opinion pro or con on assigned seats. There are issues without assigned seats. There will be issues with assigned seats. I suspect that the end result would be a wash.

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Sounds like mom was a drama queen. The lounge is hardly a drunk tank where alcohol is served at all hours of the night. Heck - where they were suggested to sleep is not even where booze is sold, which will be lower level along with food, and even then the majority of what they serve is food.

I was reading the comments attached to the article, and a few people seemed to get the impression that it was a party car and the lounge was essentially a bar and not just a viewing and cafe car. Also - I'm pretty sure it was supposed to read "lounge car" and "lounge cart" gives it a completely different feel.
 
This still begs the question. Why doesn't Amtrak offer seat assignments when you book on line? Every airline and corridor or LD train in Europe does. Yes Amtrak has different car types for coach, but think of all the airline seat configurations just on one plane, like B737.
I believe that it was pointed out that the numbers on the assigned coaches are subject to change depending on how the consist is assembled that day or week. You can't sell assigned seats until the car numbers are assigned and known.
Assigned seats are possible. I know how to do it. I think management can figure it out too if I can. Amtrak does not offer them because it does not currently want to assign seats, not because they can't. (I don't know what managements or marketings reasoning is on not having assigned seats) Some day they might decide to do assigned seats. Charge extra for assigned seats. Personally I don't have any strong opinion pro or con on assigned seats. There are issues without assigned seats. There will be issues with assigned seats. I suspect that the end result would be a wash.

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Thank you for injecting some sanity into the discussion!
Any change will come with some pluses and some minuses. The question to address is whether net net it is a plus or not. In case of Amtrak the plus possibly is not that huge since trains are relatively short and mostly nowhere near extremely full, at least not like the aforementioned 24 car trains in the alleged third world country in my earlier post.

There the experience is either you leave a car unreserved and let people struggle to get a foothold, or you reserve and assign seats if you wish to avoid repeated riots. Environments are different tilting the balance towards different solutions.
 
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