MSP - CHI second daily train poised to receive MN funding

[MARC Rider]

Horizons don't handle Cold Weather Well!

If that's the case, then why, every time I rode the Vermonter in the winter, there were Horizons in the consist? (This was in the mid 2000s.)

 

[Bob Dylan]

If that's the case, then why, every time I rode the Vermonter in the winter, there were Horizons in the consist? (This was in the mid 2000s.)

That's a good question. I've been on the Hiawathas between Milwaukee and Chicago and on the Cascades Route in the Winter when the toilets were all Frozen, and the Conductors and OBS told me that Horizions weren't good for Very Cold Weather!

 

[Cal]

That's a good question. I've been on the Hiawathas between Milwaukee and Chicago and on the Cascades Route in the Winter when the toilets were all Frozen, and the Conductors and OBS told me that Horizions weren't good for Very Cold Weather!

If that's the case, then why, every time I rode the Vermonter in the winter, there were Horizons in the consist? (This was in the mid 2000s.)

Perhaps the yards in the Northeast simply maintained them better? I know the Chicago Yards aren't great, not sure about the Seattle yards.

 

[jis]

Who knows what causes them to use some specific equipment on the Vermonter? The three times I traveled on it, it was always a solid consist of Amfleets. They involved rides both in sweltering summer and frozen winter.

 

[MikefromCrete]

I was under the impression that the cold weather problems with the Horizons have been resolved. They make up most of the fleet for the Midwest corridors and I have not heard of any mass problems in recent years.

 

[WWW]

The CHI - MSP route is not like we are living in a land of permanent perma-frost - maybe 3 weeks out of the year do we have temps in the
sub zeros (F) or at zero (C).
Keeping the heaters and electric service on these cars before service should fix the problem.
Frozen toilets - put some anti-freeze in the blue de-germ like the airlines do.
Crank up the heat hours before departure. OH you tell me that Amtrak got the cheap heaterless fleet version ! LOL !
The shinny sheet metal exterior surface is not a real magnet for the cold weather - it peels off just like emptying an ice cube tray -
you don't see airlines running around with caked icing on the fuselage - oh it helps with de-icing - but speed underway will rip ice off of surfaces.

On another note:
Just a WAG - - -
It would appear that this 2nd train set could be all coach cars - no bi-level sleepers.
Perhaps 3 coach cars a baggage car and a cafe car of sorts - something 1 locomotive could power or a push pull arrangement.
Should be set up for speed - use of short sidings to move around freight roadblocks.
But what the hey it is not my own adult toy train set to play with.
Just getter done and in service asap - we have waited long enough - - - - -

 

[Anthony V]

It wouldn't surprise me If Minnesota or Wisconsin placed an add-on to the Venture order to equip this train. Under this scenario, the Horizons would only be an intern solution to the equipment problem.

 

[PaTrainFan]

It wouldn't surprise me If Minnesota or Wisconsin placed an add-on to the Venture order to equip this train. Under this scenario, the Horizons would only be an intern solution to the equipment problem.

Let's hope. But is it even budgeted for now? New equipment is sorely needed. Those Horizon coaches were never good to begin with and are downright crap now.

 

[WWW]

Shame we didn't timely get those (forgot the name) cars from the Pacific Northwest that are being made into coke cans in Southern California.
Could go over to Boeing and get some of those 737 MAX air frames put wheels on-em and way we go - - -
Hope the budget bills in Congress are removing any restrictions of purchasing new equipment for Amtrak.
Tell-em Joe B sent you !

 

[crescent-zephyr]

And correct the disaster of that NorthStar rail service ending/beginning at Big Lake
It originally was to start/end at St. Cloud - but that was switched to a dead end track

When I took a joyride on the north star it was packed with commuters. Was hard to find a seat.

downtown Duluth, and transit access is basically unheard of.

Duluth has a bus system and all routes meet downtown.

 

[toddinde]

What capital projects? There should be next to nothing in the way of capital projects for this. Somebody has to be making a bundle on studies here. There should be almost nothing between, Buy equipment and run trains. This line already has passenger service. Maybe the RR decides they need another siding, but since if I recall correctly this line was mostly double track at one time, this should amount to little more than brush clearing, ballast, two turnouts, and lay track. Six months to a year between "let's do it" and running the train.

There were several mentioned particular in the LaCrescent and LaCrosse areas. They will also benefit freight movement which will be good for the economy as well as passenger service.

 

[toddinde]

When I took a joyride on the north star it was packed with commuters. Was hard to find a seat.



Duluth has a bus system and all routes meet downtown.

You're right. Duluth is very easy to get around in on transit. Besides, there is always Uber.

 

[railiner]

Could go over to Boeing and get some of those 737 MAX air frames put wheels on-em and way we go - - -

I don't think those would do too well in the "compression test"....

 

[jis]

Hope the budget bills in Congress are removing any restrictions of purchasing new equipment for Amtrak.

What restrictions did you have in mind? The non-existent ones?

Currently there are no restrictions on Amtrak buying anything as long as it can fund it on its own. If it depends on Federal appropriation, it is a different matter. In the recent past Amtrak has self funded considerable amount of equipment.

 

[toddinde]

What restrictions did you have in mind? The non-existent ones?

Currently there are no restrictions on Amtrak buying anything as long as it can fund it on its own. If it depends on Federal appropriation, it is a different matter. In the recent past Amtrak has self funded considerable amount of equipment.

I believe the restriction the OP is talking about is the inability of Amtrak to lease new equipment. I’ve never researched this, but it’s frequently mentioned as a limitation.

 

[jis]

And yet they are swimming in leased equipment. I would like someone to point to a CFR item on this matter.

And in any case how could such a presumed restriction on Amtrak apply to a state?

 

[west point]

Wasn't previous annual reports cited that reducing the amount of leased equipment be a positive effect on the bottom line. 19 Acela-1s leased are a prime example. That is why the AX-2s are financed thru the US government ?
BTW ARE state Siemens equipment purchased.
Any entity that purchases passenger rolling stock probably requires a stiff premiums due to the previous uncertainly of Amtrak continuing operation. Every Congress critter that proposed ditching Amtrak has an effect on raising lease rates ?

 

[jis]

Amtrak at various times has done a lot of sell and lease back to get positive current cash flow and also get depreciation off its books. It is usually an ongoing decision about financial management as to which of the various tricks in the bag are going to be used for the next several years to make the financial look prettier than it actually is, or remain solvent in cash flow or some combination thereof.

Here is a very interesting study of State funded intercity passenger rail in the pre PRIIA 2008, 403(b) regime days.

https://static.tti.tamu.edu/tti.tamu.edu/documents/0-4723-1.pdf
And here is a Congressional Research Report in the post PRIIA era:

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R45783.pdf
US has in general not delved into the business of encouraging passenger rail equipment leasing companies supported by the government like the ROSCOEs in the UK. Leasing of freight rolling stock is already a pretty booming business. Part of the problem again is that the fox guards the hen house when it comes to passenger rail equipment for use in intercity service. Amtrak is essentially the only certifying authority of repute and it pretty much makes the rules in collaboration with the FRA and it jealously guards its own interests while at it.

 

[jebr]

You're right. Duluth is very easy to get around in on transit. Besides, there is always Uber.

I was more referring to the North Shore in general, not Duluth in particular. It's easy enough to get around Duluth proper, but if you want to go up to Gooseberry State Park, Split Rock Lighthouse, or any of the other sites that make up the North Shore outside of Duluth, it's rather difficult without a vehicle of some sort. The North Shore Scenic Railroad does go up to Two Harbors, but it's not really conducive to travel beyond Two Harbors. (And if I'm going to be renting a car anyways, why not just take my own car the whole way or rent one near my home, instead of in Duluth?)

It's worth building without really factoring in that audience, though - Duluth is a destination for many people, and the intermediate stops will drive traffic as well.