My Sunset Limited improvement plan

[cirdan]

Yes. In principle Amtrak actually has more statutory power than California can ever dream of having. But it is also almost impossible for Amtrak to exercise such meaningfully unless the en-route states are on board.

In other words Amtrak's power is largely theoretical and almost completely unenforceable without assistance from the individual states. This sort of arrangement works well enough in pro-rail states and along pro-rail corridors. However, on route like the Sunset Limited that crosses a series of states that are either indifferent or overtly anti-rail, Amtrak finds itself unable to leverage even the most fundamental of mandates. Would you agree?

The Sunset Limited does cross some pro-rail states, or at least on the pro side of neutral. Think of New Mexico, California, Texas. Yet they haven't managed to make it go daily even on the West of NOL section yet.

 

[cirdan]

[

And there is probably a bit thrown in simply to compensate UP for the fact that what Amtrak pays them for passage doesn't cover the actual costs of allow Amtrak to run on the tracks.

Is that so?

In that case I guess BNSF doesn't recover actual costs either.

If that is the case, then why are they so cooperative?

I can't imagine that they'd do it out of pure altruism.

 

[Ispolkom]

In that case I guess BNSF doesn't recover actual costs either.
If that is the case, then why are they so cooperative?

I can't imagine that they'd do it out of pure altruism.

I don't know that BNSF is really all that cooperative. Note how long the Empire Builder was suspended this year. In the last suspension, the track through Minot was reopened on July 5 or so, but the first Empire Builder ran almost two weeks later. And notice how the price for restoring North Coast Hiawatha service was about as eye-watering as that the UP gave for improved Sunset Limited service.

BNSF dispatchers seem to generally push the Empire Builder and Southwest Chief through as quickly as possible, but the same is true of CP dispatchers. On Tuesday's #8 from St. Paul to Chicago we only went into the hole once for a west-bound freight train, while we must have passed a dozen more trains on sidings.

 

[Trogdor]

I don't know that BNSF is really all that cooperative. Note how long the Empire Builder was suspended this year. In the last suspension, the track through Minot was reopened on July 5 or so, but the first Empire Builder ran almost two weeks later. And notice how the price for restoring North Coast Hiawatha service was about as eye-watering as that the UP gave for improved Sunset Limited service.

BNSF is a billion times more cooperative than UP. The delay in restoring the Empire Builder was because otherwise the train would face hours of delay, as happened earlier in the year with previous disruptions.

As for the NCH, that's because the line would need to be upgraded to passenger speeds. There's tons of unsignalled territory and TWC territory, some of the original route (from 30 years ago) has been abandoned.

That's completely different from adding a couple of frequencies to a route that already hosts passenger trains, on a route that was already going to be double-tracked by the UP anyway.

 

[Bob Dylan]

BNSF/CN vs. UP Dispatching: Makes a BIG difference as pertains to the Texas Eagle! When the Eagle leaves the BNSF tracks in Taylor it becomes subjected to many UP delays while gravel and coal trains roll by heading North, Ive counted as many as four of these while the Eagle sits in the hole on MoPac waiting on these slow moving freights to climb the incline heading North out of Austin.We leave Taylor on time, arrive in Austin 1-2 hours down!(it's 22 miles!) Once the Eagle gets onto BNSF tracks at Taylor (and CN in East Texas) the Eagle is seldom put into the hole to let freights pass. Also UP trackwork seems to take longer than a Government Construction project, and that's a Loooooooong time! :lol: (The Sunset Ltd. faces the same problems between SAS and ELP)!

I personally talked with the man in charge of the BNSF Dispatching Center in FTW and he told me that it's policy to give Amtrak priority whenever possible!

 

[George B]

BNSF is a billion times more cooperative than UP. The delay in restoring the Empire Builder was because otherwise the train would face hours of delay, as happened earlier in the year with previous disruptions.

This is absolutely correct. The decision on when to resume the EB was mostly in Amtrak's hands. Now, BNSF wasn't going to let Amtrak be the first train through, but if they wanted to run the EB through during the first week trackage was back in service, BNSF would not have told them no.

Don't get me started on UP. My post on them would be rejected for excessive profanity.

 

[had8ley]

BNSF is a billion times more cooperative than UP. The delay in restoring the Empire Builder was because otherwise the train would face hours of delay, as happened earlier in the year with previous disruptions.

This is absolutely correct. The decision on when to resume the EB was mostly in Amtrak's hands. Now, BNSF wasn't going to let Amtrak be the first train through, but if they wanted to run the EB through during the first week trackage was back in service, BNSF would not have told them no.

Don't get me started on UP. My post on them would be rejected for excessive profanity.

AMEN !!!!

 

[johnny.menhennet]

I think a great way to make a daily train and keep away from UP is to run the trains over Cajon on BNSF, then on the Arizona and California Eastern RR (sorry if that's not the exact name) then into Phoenix, and down to Tucson. With minor improvements, the route would be almost as time-efficient, AND it would serve Phoenix... just an idea

 

[George B]

I think a great way to make a daily train and keep away from UP is to run the trains over Cajon on BNSF, then on the Arizona and California Eastern RR (sorry if that's not the exact name) then into Phoenix, and down to Tucson. With minor improvements, the route would be almost as time-efficient, AND it would serve Phoenix... just an idea

This would require A LOT of money, track/signal/station work, and operating agreements that neither side would be interested in pursuing.

 

[The Chief]

As JimH and Trogdor noted, BNSF excels at dispatching Amtrak, due to its priorities.

In 2006, two BNSF managers spoke in Fort Worth at the Texas Association of Railroad Passengers (TXARP) annual meeting Sept. 9 before about 30 attendees. They briefed us on the importance systemwide BNSF places on Amtrak trains, the incentives realized, some of the processes used, and the employee (Positive) attitude.

Many of us present thought their processes and implementation could be a good "how-to" business plan for other host RRs.

That was before Mr. Buffet and his Berkshire Hathaway bought BNSF. Under his tutelage that host RR has not and will not change the way it has been handling Amtrak, which is top-notch.

 

[George Harris]

(and CN in East Texas)

????? So far as I know, the Eagle is all UP in Texas and Arkansas other than Ft. Worth to Temple TX on the BNSF.

I think Chicago to Joliet is on CN, as that is the part of the old GM&O the CN kept back to keep the CM&W from accessing the Chicago interchanges (which also ensured their failrue.)

 

[Bob Dylan]

(and CN in East Texas)

????? So far as I know, the Eagle is all UP in Texas and Arkansas other than Ft. Worth to Temple TX on the BNSF.

I think Chicago to Joliet is on CN, as that is the part of the old GM&O the CN kept back to keep the CM&W from accessing the Chicago interchanges (which also ensured their failrue.)

George: I hope I'm not dreaming, Dont know just where in EastTexas or what the Section is called, but between Mineola and Marshall (where it's still Light and I'm not asleep yet! :lol: ) some of the signs and the various sheds etc. have CN markings on them so I figured it's CN trackage?? Agree about the BNSF in Texas!

 

[GlobalistPotato]

(and CN in East Texas)

????? So far as I know, the Eagle is all UP in Texas and Arkansas other than Ft. Worth to Temple TX on the BNSF.

I think Chicago to Joliet is on CN, as that is the part of the old GM&O the CN kept back to keep the CM&W from accessing the Chicago interchanges (which also ensured their failrue.)

George: I hope I'm not dreaming, Dont know just where in EastTexas or what the Section is called, but between Mineola and Marshall (where it's still Light and I'm not asleep yet! :lol: ) some of the signs and the various sheds etc. have CN markings on them so I figured it's CN trackage?? Agree about the BNSF in Texas!

Nope: That's also UP. I don't know what the "CN" signs mean, but it definitely isn't owned by Canadian National.

But if it was owned by Canadian National, it would help explain the recent derailments on that part of the route.

"Derail like CN!"

 

[AlanB]

I personally talked with the man in charge of the BNSF Dispatching Center in FTW and he told me that it's policy to give Amtrak priority whenever possible!

A little birdie that did an internship with BNSF a few years ago told me that BNSF has one dispatcher's desk that is staffed 24/7. That dispatcher's job is to monitor all Amtrak trains on BNSF tracks and to ensure that they are getting the best possible treatment from the dispatchers controlling the actual subdivisions. And that dispatcher has the authority to overrule decisions by the regular dispatchers.

 

[HoosierStater]

I personally talked with the man in charge of the BNSF Dispatching Center in FTW and he told me that it's policy to give Amtrak priority whenever possible!

A little birdie that did an internship with BNSF a few years ago told me that BNSF has one dispatcher's desk that is staffed 24/7. That dispatcher's job is to monitor all Amtrak trains on BNSF tracks and to ensure that they are getting the best possible treatment from the dispatchers controlling the actual subdivisions. And that dispatcher has the authority to overrule decisions by the regular dispatchers.

My sister-in-law works for Norfolk Southern and has told me that they have a similar prioritizing for Amtrak there.

 

[TWA904]

To improve the SL, I realize it would probably require the construction of new track, but I would re-route the train from NO to Baton Rouge on to Lafayette. I'm sure Baton Rouge would board more pax than the 2 or 3 pax a day at Schriever and New Iberia, LA.