National Dining Car Specials/New Menus (April '17)

[neroden]

I don't think it is unreasonable at all to try and make a situation better for someone.

I wasn't implying that you were. For your edification:

The term "reasonable accomodation" is a term of art in disability law. In the context of being a customer of a Amtrak, this is one of the clauses in the Code of Federal Regulations to which it refers:

§36.302 Modifications in policies, practices, or procedures.

(a) General. A public accommodation shall make reasonable modifications in policies, practices, or procedures, when the modifications are necessary to afford goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations to individuals with disabilities, unless the public accommodation can demonstrate that making the modifications would fundamentally alter the nature of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations.

Amtrak, like practically any business which provides any service to the general public, is considered a "public accomodation".

The question of whether or not "the public accommodation can demonstrate that making the modifications would fundamentally alter the nature of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations" is usually described as whether the accomodation is "reasonable" or not.

This is another one of the clauses to which "reasonable accomodation" refers:

§36.303 Auxiliary aids and services.

(a) General. A public accommodation shall take those steps that may be necessary to ensure that no individual with a disability is excluded, denied services, segregated or otherwise treated differently than other individuals because of the absence of auxiliary aids and services, unless the public accommodation can demonstrate that taking those steps would fundamentally alter the nature of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations being offered or would result in an undue burden, i.e., significant difficulty or expense.

Publishing the ingredients lists which they receive from the suppliers already is hard to construe as an undue burden.

For a long time there was a question over whether serious allergies were considered a disability (i.e. is it legal to discriminate against people who have them), but this question was apparently settled a few years ago. This is actually the question which was not clear legally speaking; by contrast, the question of whether they have to make minor informational accomodations if it is considered a disability seems cut and dried.

I'm going to pursue a couple more avenues, starting with some certified mail to the very top (also, does Amtrak have an ADA coordinator / point person? That would be another place to write). I should ask y'all to help me make sure I have the right addresses.

If that doesn't work I think I should contact a disabiilty lawyer.

 

[PVD]

The DOJ is very non committal on "remedy".Perhaps it is time to poke them.

https://www.foodallergy.org/file/ada-webinar-slides.pdf

Amtrak trains are covered separately under the law from the stations, but it mostly focuses on access and mobility.

 

[neroden]

Ha. Thanks for the link. This is *ammo*. From page 17:

"5. What might a restaurant or other similar place of public accomodation need to do to accomodate an individual with celiac disease or other food allergies?".

...

"By way of example only, this may include: 1) answering questions from diners about menu item ingredients, where the ingredients are known"

The ingredients are known to Amtrak's suppliers and provided to Amtrak, especially since Amtrak buys prepackaged goods. (The suppliers may sometimes be vague but I'm not asking Amtrak to go further than the information its suppliers have.)

Amtrak, as an institution, continues to refuse to provide the ingredients either at the time *or* in advance, has refused in a *written letter*, has policies and procedures to throw away the ingredients information and the sourcing information, and collects the nutritional data off the suppliers' information statements for the "food facts" website while omitting the ingredients. I know for a fact the supplier information sheets they're getting that off of have the ingredients on them, because a lot of restaurants have pulled the supplier information sheets up for me.

I should be able to nail them to the wall. If I keep getting stonewalled, a lawsuit may be my only option. Here's hoping someone listens before it comes to that.

 

[PVD]

The whole food service industry tries to get away with as much as they can. In NYC, the industry fought salt content warnings, and the health implications of elevated sodium are a hell of a lot more widespread than food allergies, they affect everyone.

 

[RSG]

I'm going to pursue a couple more avenues, starting with some certified mail to the very top (also, does Amtrak have an ADA coordinator / point person? That would be another place to write). I should ask y'all to help me make sure I have the right addresses.

If that doesn't work I think I should contact a disabiilty lawyer.

If you haven't already done so in 2017, I would contact the Customer Relations department [via snail mail] and ask for an ingredient list in the menu items you're interested in (don't go overboard and 'demand' a complete ingredient list for all prepared menu items on all trains with served-to-order foodservice facilities). Politely mention you have allergies which makes this information crucial to your health and well-being as well as overall enjoyment of the onboard service.

Give them a few weeks. Odds are you'll get a finger-in-nose response about how difficult that information is to come by given the vast amount of different suppliers and sources from which the ingredients are provided---or, surprise, you'll get most of what you requested.

If you get the former response, then request the same information in another letter and mention that you were not provided with the information when inquired of the department which originally handled it. Mention that this has ADA implications and use the previously provided information as 'ammo'. Then send it to 60 Mass Ave NE with the following address header:

ADA COMPLIANCE

LEGAL DEPARTMENT

NATIONAL PASSENGER RAILROAD CORPORATION

Odds are pretty good this will get someone's attention and the information you have requested. No need to find out the name of the ADA coordinator (who, for better or for worse, may be somewhat new to the game and think of their job as only involving mobility and accessibility issues and therefore be unaware of any food or beverage concerns) or contact Wick Moorman. And send everything via regular mail for the first request to each department. Using Certified Mail often sets off alarm bells which result in unnecessary handling or else a rubber stamped signature receipt along with placement in the mail delivery tub with everything else, including the monthly copies of Railroad Age.

As always, be polite, non-snarky, and operate from a position of goodwill. My bet that the reason they don't already post this information online is because Aramark can't guarantee a consistent supply of the same ingredients to all distribution points for the duration of the menu cycle. This is no excuse for not attempting, but as we know with organizations like Amtrak, information is only widely provided when it can be expected to be consistently adhered to.

 

[SteveSFL]

Just got back from CHI-EMY on the Zephyr and have a couple of observations about the dining experience vs when I was on the Zephyr a couple years ago.

The salads are definitely smaller. I had one that had one carrot and one tomato.

The new "Pork Sliders" lunch entree has been discontinued, apparently because of a problem with the design of the packaging that resulted in the product spoiling and "turning green."

Train pasta still isn't as good as restaurant pasta. I had the fettuccini carbonara enteee and the pasta was rubbery. I guess this is because it is prepared beforehand and reheated on the train.

The portions seemed smaller, although that's probably not a bad thing.

The lemon tart is pretty darn good, and I probably would have had the chocolate thing more than once had they not run out.

The cheesecake was served in the round plastic tub without any extras (strawberries/whipped cream).

The Zephyr dining crews still seem to be the surliest of all the trains I've ridden. Although most of the LD train LSA's are fairly rigid in their handling of reservations and waitlists, this one was overly obnoxious about it and then didn't even follow her own rules at times.

One night we noticed people from the seating scheduled :30 after ours were already getting their food before us. One of the people at my table asked the LSA and she looked at our somewhat empty table and said "you mean you guys haven't already finished?" She then went and checked and found out the server had "forgotten to drop the tickets." There was a very brief "oops" but not a real apology. Since three of us were sleeper passengers it's not like we could ask for a free meal, but we felt that the fourth guy, who was a coach passenger from England, should have his meal comped.

I guess that's not something Amtrak will do, because they kind of just ignored the suggestion and presented him with his $30 check. And then they had the nerve to try to rush him to pay (even though there were no more seatings.). Needless to say the server did not get a tip from any of us that night. I encouraged the guy from England to call Customer Relations. He said "what good would it do?" I told him he might get a voucher which he could apply to sleeping accommodations on another segment of his railpass journey.

All-in-all not a bad experience, but not the best I've had either.

 

[Maverickstation]

 

[Maverickstation]

My prior post shows Breakfast as served in Acela First Class. We took at 8:10 out of Boston on Saturday morning. Just after departing BOS we were given menus and orders were taken after the BBY passengers boarded. We rode to NYP and just before there orders for lunch were taken for pax riding further south, and lunch was to be served just past Newark.

 

[Dakota 400]

Looking at the Bar Selections available, I note that there are 2 Scotches but no Bourbon or Canadian Whiskey listed. Is it possible that the Lounge Car might stock some but not list them as being available?

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

ImageUploadedByAmtrak Forum1495975941.099702.jpg

So that's where my broccoli omelet is hiding--on the Acela first class! Looks delicious.

 

[bretton88]

Looks like the food has improved. My best train meal is still the breakfast I had on VIA Rails business class.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

 

[Palmetto]

What's the omelet stuffed with? Looks like cheese.

 

[Palmetto]

Looking at the Bar Selections available, I note that there are 2 Scotches but no Bourbon or Canadian Whiskey listed. Is it possible that the Lounge Car might stock some but not list them as being available?

Crown Royal is there on the first class menu. Curious that's it's missing from the café menu as well as a bourbon.

 

[OBS]

Looking at the Bar Selections available, I note that there are 2 Scotches but no Bourbon or Canadian Whiskey listed. Is it possible that the Lounge Car might stock some but not list them as being available?

Crown Royal is there on the first class menu. Curious that's it's missing from the café menu as well as a bourbon.

We had Canadian Club as well as Jim Beam in NEC for years....neither sold much. People wanted, and now receive, Jack Daniels....

 

[Dakota 400]

Looking at the Bar Selections available, I note that there are 2 Scotches but no Bourbon or Canadian Whiskey listed. Is it possible that the Lounge Car might stock some but not list them as being available?

Crown Royal is there on the first class menu. Curious that's it's missing from the café menu as well as a bourbon.

We had Canadian Club as well as Jim Beam in NEC for years....neither sold much. People wanted, and now receive, Jack Daniels....

On my most recent three LD trips (Crescent, Sunset Limited, Southwest Chief), I am fairly certain that Canadian Club Reserve was available in the Lounge Cars.

I gather from what you are saying in your post that I need to quickly develop a taste for an adult beverage other than what I prefer.

 

[Maverickstation]

What's the omelet stuffed with? Looks like cheese.

Yes, Boursin Cheese to be exact, and the omelet was quite good.

Here are the (3) menus that are currently rotating in Acela First Class Service, each on is up for 2 weeks at a clip.

The second menu is the current one.

https://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/171/386/Acela-Express-First-Class-Menus-0417.pdf

Ken

 

[Palmetto]

Boursin cheese is very savory.

 

[Anderson]

Looking at the Bar Selections available, I note that there are 2 Scotches but no Bourbon or Canadian Whiskey listed. Is it possible that the Lounge Car might stock some but not list them as being available?

Crown Royal is there on the first class menu. Curious that's it's missing from the café menu as well as a bourbon.

We had Canadian Club as well as Jim Beam in NEC for years....neither sold much. People wanted, and now receive, Jack Daniels....

OBS,

As someone who probably put a respectable dent in the remaining stocks of Bailey's once it was dropping off the menu (and who was successfully upsold into loving a Bailey's, cognac, and hot chocolate by a retiring employee...points to her, she got me to be willing to spend $15 or so on a drink), I'm curious...why were the cordials dropped? The sell-by dates on those would seem to be pretty long by comparison to a lot of things and while I know not a huge number seemed to be sold (bad note on Amtrak vis-a-vis VIA is Amtrak not nudging folks for drink orders) it wouldn't seem to be a shrinkage-heavy item.

(To be fair, getting some Jack in my coffee and "manually" adding cream and sugar still works well enough for me...but it's not quite the same.)

 

[OBS]

Looking at the Bar Selections available, I note that there are 2 Scotches but no Bourbon or Canadian Whiskey listed. Is it possible that the Lounge Car might stock some but not list them as being available?

Crown Royal is there on the first class menu. Curious that's it's missing from the café menu as well as a bourbon.

We had Canadian Club as well as Jim Beam in NEC for years....neither sold much. People wanted, and now receive, Jack Daniels....

OBS,

As someone who probably put a respectable dent in the remaining stocks of Bailey's once it was dropping off the menu (and who was successfully upsold into loving a Bailey's, cognac, and hot chocolate by a retiring employee...points to her, she got me to be willing to spend $15 or so on a drink), I'm curious...why were the cordials dropped? The sell-by dates on those would seem to be pretty long by comparison to a lot of things and while I know not a huge number seemed to be sold (bad note on Amtrak vis-a-vis VIA is Amtrak not nudging folks for drink orders) it wouldn't seem to be a shrinkage-heavy item.

(To be fair, getting some Jack in my coffee and "manually" adding cream and sugar still works well enough for me...but it's not quite the same.)

Over the last couple years, it seems like the F&B dept. has become very "numbers" focused. If something doesn't sell a certain quantity on a regular basis, it has disappeared. I agree that non perishable items should have a little more tolerance, and it may have something to do with the Aramark contract, in terms of the numbers of items stocked/provisioned,,,IDK...but I do agree that some of the decisions made are frustrating.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Looking at the Bar Selections available, I note that there are 2 Scotches but no Bourbon or Canadian Whiskey listed. Is it possible that the Lounge Car might stock some but not list them as being available?

Crown Royal is there on the first class menu. Curious that's it's missing from the café menu as well as a bourbon.

We had Canadian Club as well as Jim Beam in NEC for years....neither sold much. People wanted, and now receive, Jack Daniels....

As someone who probably put a respectable dent in the remaining stocks of Bailey's once it was dropping off the menu (and who was successfully upsold into loving a Bailey's, cognac, and hot chocolate by a retiring employee...points to her, she got me to be willing to spend $15 or so on a drink), I'm curious...why were the cordials dropped? The sell-by dates on those would seem to be pretty long by comparison to a lot of things and while I know not a huge number seemed to be sold (bad note on Amtrak vis-a-vis VIA is Amtrak not nudging folks for drink orders) it wouldn't seem to be a shrinkage-heavy item.

Over the last couple years, it seems like the F&B dept. has become very "numbers" focused. If something doesn't sell a certain quantity on a regular basis, it has disappeared. I agree that non perishable items should have a little more tolerance, and it may have something to do with the Aramark contract, in terms of the numbers of items stocked/provisioned,,,IDK...but I do agree that some of the decisions made are frustrating.

I have no familiarity with Canadian Club. The name makes it sound like a carbonated mixer of some sort. Jim Beam is just about the sorriest major brand I've ever tried outside of Chivas. Neither of those options will be missed. That being said, Anderson brings up a good point about stocking a selection large enough to allow for interesting cocktails and employing supply side selling to move stock. I cannot recall ever being offered a cocktail at my seat or in my room or at my table while on Amtrak. Why is that? If Amtrak is hurting for money, or could simply benefit from making more of it, this would seem to be an easy way to help improve that situation. In my experience cocktails are almost always mentioned and provided at your seat on fights, even on short hops early in the morning. It's a similar experience in restaurants, even during the first seating of a weekend brunch. And yet I honestly cannot remember the last time someone on Amtrak offered me any sort of cocktail up-sell.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Canadian Club is a bar Whiskey on a par with Seagrams 7!

If you want good Canadian Whiskey go with Crown!

 

[PVD]

Canadian Club (rye whiskey), been around more than 150 years. Al Capone used to smuggle it in from Windsor to Detroit. Have no idea what, if anything, they are selling as a substitute whiskey

Crown is the #1 selling Canadian whiskey in the US, used to be owned by Seagrams, sold off when they dissolved.

Trivia note - It is produced in Gimli, a town best known for the "Gimli Glider" a 767 that ran out of fuel and made a safe landing at the decommissioned air base.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Actually, I happen to own a bottle of Canadian club from 1945 (meaning it was actually distilled prewar- 1939 or earlier). It is an exceptionally nice Rye whiskey, better than Seagrams VO Gold, or Crown Royal Rye. The modern stuff is garbage, though.

Actually, if you are looking for a fine Rye whiskey, I suggest Weiser's Rye.

The truth of the matter is that liquor is a drug. I'm not judging, because I happen to have a severe addiction to it. And while I happen to be a collector of fine and old liquor, I mostly drink Seagram's Reserve dry gin, because it's acceptably good, 94 proof, and cheap. And when I'm on a trip and need my nightly fix, I really don't care what it is or how much it costs.

Amtrak is taking advantage of that fact. most people can't tell Jim Beam from High West, and quite a few can't tell a Rye from an Irish from a Bourbon from a Scotch. People who buy drinks on the train do so either because they have an addiction like me or because they want to loosen up and have a good time. What they are selling allows for that at high profit margins. They sell low-mid liquor for top shelf prices. Frankly, liquor sales should be a big profit engine for Amtrak, and they should use it as such.

 

[Lonestar648]

Liquor, wine, and beer sales major profit centers that allow many restaurants to operate limited hours with a substantial profit. The PCC would be an excellent location for upscale sales because the Cafe's have limited room for inventory. If Amtrak took advantage of a minimal wine and beer selection at Dinner, think of the additional profits,

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Not that VIA is making money... But they are constantly pushing alcahol. The Steward comes by to take drink orders and offer his recommendations with the various entrees... The Park Car has happy hours... All things that Amtrak could do.

But no... An actual response ive heard in an Amtrak dining car-

Guest - "what kind of wines do You have?"

Server - "we have a red and a white"

Guest- "what kind of white wine is it?"

Server "you want the white wine?"

Guest "well im not sure, what kind of wine is it"

Server "do you want wine or not?"

This was a few years ago on the crescent.