New Amtrak Food Contract

[rrdude]

Well, if "misery loves company" than I guess I am not alone when it comes to my views on Amtrak's less-than-stellar attitude towards recycling.

I don't argue that they may have "policies" towards recycling, but until they can "walk-the-walk" and not just "talk-the-talk", they should tone down the marketing they do tooting their own horn how "green" they are.

Do they have a very good chance, for very little money, of being "way more green"? Hell yes they do. And I'm glad to hear that Boardman is behind it.

Being green isn't ALWAYS the cheapest way to go, I know, I pay thru the nose for alternative power, and pay thru the nose to buy local, etc., etc. However, it is the RIGHT thing to do.

I'm merely saying, if you are going to flaunt it, then you better be prepared for some scrutiny, and I don't think Amtrak would hold up too good under that. Isolated success stories? You bet! Systemic adoption and adherence to the policy. Not so much.

Start with the dining cars. No more plastic. Glass-ware and china. I don't want to run the numbers, but I'm sure we have some on here that will. What a difference (how much less plastic-ware would go into landfill) it would make if all diners eliminated all plastic. Like they used to be.......... glass an china.

 

[rrdude]

Unfortunately, there isn't much from the diner that can be recycled nor do the dining cars, on the Empire Builder at least, have recycling. They could probably make an effort to separate glass such as bottles out.

It's in the lounge car and coach cars where most the recycle containers are located.

I'll have to check with the District Managers I know as it was my understanding that the bags do indeed get separated out at some point. That's the reason for using the clear and blue transparent recycle liners. At least that's what I was told.

As nowadays many recyclables are commodities, it would seem to benefit the waste collection vendors to separate them out. Maybe I'm wrong but I will ask.

EB, I think starting with going to all china, and glass in all diners would be HUGE. I agree, after that, there is not much the diner can recycle. (maybe a bit of wine bottles, a few aluminum cans, and some clear plastic water bottles)

Lounge and AmCafe's however could recycle all of the carry-out trays, all of the aluminum beer and soda, all of the clear plastic water bottles, and SOME of the non-food paper.......It's just so ez it's a shame.......

I tried doing this back in the late seventies, early eighties, cause I was a college student with a zest for recycling, and tuition to pay, I did my capstone course on recycling in college. On several trips I set up separate waste bins for aluminum cans, (only on my return to Chicago, as I had nowhere to store cans on a layover) with neatly hand-lettered signs politely asking for "cans only".

I was told by an Amtrak supervisor, under no uncertain terms, "to discontinue this immediately" as the trash (aluminum cans) was "Amtrak's trash" and not mine. I sought out Bert, my union rep, and he advised me to drop it like a hot potato, as otherwise I could be brought up on charges of "stealing Amtrak property". I needed the job more than I needed the 10 cents a pound for the cans........

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Let me explain something tow you. People's tolerance and like of food varies immensely. There are people who, for some reason, can tolerate Applebee's or even Charlie browns.

I can't. I'm a food nut. Go to Chicago for Giordano's- long after I got sick of riding to ride. Drive two hours from my home to eat at the Exchange at The Inn at Pocono Manor at least once a month. I like food- it is my greatest pleasure in life. I have had meals on Amtrak that didn't approach edible. Denny's? Not that bad, but bad. I've had plenty of edible but boring meals. And I've had some greats. The Surf and Turf on the auto train, an amazing pork stir fry on the Chief, an amazing Duck L'orange also on the chief. An incredible lamb on the Coast Starlight, and another, Chinese style duck on the PPC. Oh and some incredible, incredible steak on the LSL.

It varies by train and time, and is often terrible. What you consider good depends on you, more then the train. But if they offer duck, take it. It's apparently amtraks specialty.

 

[AlanB]

Yes, but the food on those trains wasn't TV dinner/instant-style food heated in a microwave by a short order cook and served on a disposable plastic plate. If the quality of the food were at least comparable to Amtrak's standards from 15 years ago, your argument would have some merit. If you adjust for the differences in quality and service, I'd say that the food nowadays costs at least twice as much as it did back in the "golden days", adjusted for inflation.

Amtrak cooks aren't "short order cooks" and they don't use microwaves.

About half of what is currently served in an Amtrak dining car, save the Cardinal, is cooked to order. This includes steaks, eggs & omelets, and several other items. The rest is heated in a convection oven.

And the food today is far more consistent than it was 15 years ago. Yes, if you want to roll the clock back further it could be said that things were better back then.

 

[AlanB]

[...] plus of course congress cutting the staff to points almost no one can claim to be wise.

Remember, it is not Congress that specifies precisely how Amtrak uses the money they're given, though some are certainly trying to micro-manage more today than in the past. It is Amtrak's own decisions that are directly responsible for the decline in food service; all part of their brilliant scheme to cut customer service as a way to increase ridership and gain more revenue. I've seen trains in Europe offer a better product with fewer staff in a restaurant car; ditto airline food in first/business class.

When Congress tells Amtrak that they will cut all funding if Amtrak doesn't reduce the losses in the food service area, that is indeed Congress telling Amtrak how to spend the money. And that is precisely what Congress did several years ago; they told Amtrak that if they wanted their $1.4 Billion in subsidies that they needed to cut the $100 Million loss in food service. So thanks to that, we got less food cooked on board and plastic-ware.

 

[gatelouse]

I recently rode the Capitol Limited and Lake Shore Limited. Besides the Auto Train, these are my first LDT rides in perhaps 5+ years, certainly before the CCC program. Full trip report coming soon, but two observations about dining.

On the CL, I personally witnessed the LSA tossing aluminum cans and recyclable wine bottles into the trash receptacle at the end of the car.

On both trains, I found the food consistent but inferior to what I experienced on my last LD trip. I felt there was a definite drop in quality--subtle but noticeable. And no longer did I hear the "Wow, this is great!" from surprised first-timers that I used to hear every evening back in the days.

 

[TVRM610]

Yes, but the food on those trains wasn't TV dinner/instant-style food heated in a microwave by a short order cook and served on a disposable plastic plate. If the quality of the food were at least comparable to Amtrak's standards from 15 years ago, your argument would have some merit. If you adjust for the differences in quality and service, I'd say that the food nowadays costs at least twice as much as it did back in the "golden days", adjusted for inflation.

Amtrak cooks aren't "short order cooks" and they don't use microwaves.

About half of what is currently served in an Amtrak dining car, save the Cardinal, is cooked to order. This includes steaks, eggs & omelets, and several other items. The rest is heated in a convection oven.

And the food today is far more consistent than it was 15 years ago. Yes, if you want to roll the clock back further it could be said that things were better back then.

Thank you Alan!

I will continue to say that the CHEF (yes chef) makes all the difference in the food on board Amtrak. The meal that I had last year on the City of New Orleans (Catfish) was delicious, even the mashed potatoes and veggies. Yes I'm certain the potatoes were instant, but they didn't taste like it! Now the very next day when I rode the Capitol, I got the meal that Texas Sunset seems to have always been served, bland dry chicken, watery bland veggies, and watery flavorless gummy mashed potatoes. What was the difference from one train to the other? They were given food from the same vendor, and it was prepared in a kitchen with all the same resources. What was different? The staff!

 

[Larry H.]

This is all getting quite involved which lead me to think of how in the world were the railroads of old able to in many instances to put out wonderful meals that were prepared from scratch and served on the best linens and with fine china and flowers and mostly at rather reasonable prices? If money is always the object in food service they could have dumped the diners as some tried with automat type service for a brief period.

My main point is that although many here disagree with it, food used to be a highlight and another good reason to take a longer time in route to a destination an helped to promote the entire lines prestige, something on the order I would suspect of paying for advertising might have done as well. Obviously towards the end railroads many of whom simply gave up competing with roads and air lines pretty much also abandoned their standards for food. Somehow the parallel here of downgrading constantly the amenities while always increasing the fares seems completely backwards to the goal of increased satisfaction and use of rail travel.

 

[The Journalist]

I've yet to have a meal disappoint on the Zephyr. I've tried the buffalo meatloaf, some form of baked chicken, the ribs (which I was antsy about ordering but was pleasantly surprised by), and the french toast for breakfast, which was probably the weakest of them but certainly decent. I also try to get the last meal time-and since I often ride the Zephyr's "dead zone" across rural Nevada the dining car isn't that crowded anyway-on my last trip to SLC I stayed in there for probably an hour and a half chatting with table mates and some of staff.

It's safe to say, though, that my standards of food aren't particularly high-though being a college student who often lives off of Bowl Appetit and canned soup likely has something to do with this. Applebee's, Chili's, Denny's, and other inexplicably possessive restaurant chains that are being derided by others are fine by me.

 

[AlanB]

This is all getting quite involved which lead me to think of how in the world were the railroads of old able to in many instances to put out wonderful meals that were prepared from scratch and served on the best linens and with fine china and flowers and mostly at rather reasonable prices? If money is always the object in food service they could have dumped the diners as some tried with automat type service for a brief period.

My main point is that although many here disagree with it, food used to be a highlight and another good reason to take a longer time in route to a destination an helped to promote the entire lines prestige, something on the order I would suspect of paying for advertising might have done as well. Obviously towards the end railroads many of whom simply gave up competing with roads and air lines pretty much also abandoned their standards for food. Somehow the parallel here of downgrading constantly the amenities while always increasing the fares seems completely backwards to the goal of increased satisfaction and use of rail travel.

Larry,

Part of it is indeed the money factor. Even in the "old" days the diner's lost money; but that loss was accepted because the alternative was to go back to having trains that spent a couple of hours at stations so that passengers could get meals in a Harvey House for example. Part of it was also pride. Pride for the host RR to be able to turn out quality meals and to perhaps even best the competition. And pride from the employee's to do their best. Back then I think that more employees tried to do their best and take pride in their work. Not saying that Amtrak doesn't have some employees today who still do take pride, as they have many who do. But for some, its just a job, and that hurts!

Toss in a micro-managing Congress and a society that seems to demand more for less and you have what we have today.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Why is everybody ranting and argueing?! I can't even think straight after reading all that stuff at the front of the page!

 

[rrdude]

Why is everybody ranting and argueing?! I can't even think straight after reading all that stuff at the front of the page!

Because THAT Mr. Hardcore is the VERY REASON forums like this exist!

 

[Ispolkom]

Maybe I've spent too much time traveling on two-lane highways, eating in small Western towns. I've generally had good luck in Amtrak diners, starting with treating the dining car as, well, a diner.

I never order the reconstituted mashed potatoes. I steer clear of the omelettes, and avoid the vegetarian dishes at all costs. The rest I find generally acceptable, especially if you keep to the Montana cafe trinity of steak, baked potato, and coffee. In any case dining car fare is much better than the trash sold in the lounge car. It is a bit bracing that some of the best meals I've had on Amtrak were the cold suppers served on the #28, but there you have it.

What I don't understand is complaints about the prices. Have dining car meals ever been reasonably priced? Here's an example from the 1966 Western Star dining car menu, where the 8 oz. ribeye steak dinner is $4.20, about $27 in today's money. Isn't that what the steak on the Empire Builder costs now? And weren't sleeper passengers paying for that meal on top of their sleeper accommodation?

I think that dining car food is generally better than it was in the mid-90s, certainly it's more consistent. What I really wish was a greater variety on the menu. It is a shame that mostly I don't bother picking up the menu before ordering.

 

[Larry H.]

Maybe I've spent too much time traveling on two-lane highways, eating in small Western towns. I've generally had good luck in Amtrak diners, starting with treating the dining car as, well, a diner.

I never order the reconstituted mashed potatoes. I steer clear of the omelettes, and avoid the vegetarian dishes at all costs. The rest I find generally acceptable, especially if you keep to the Montana cafe trinity of steak, baked potato, and coffee. In any case dining car fare is much better than the trash sold in the lounge car. It is a bit bracing that some of the best meals I've had on Amtrak were the cold suppers served on the #28, but there you have it.

What I don't understand is complaints about the prices. Have dining car meals ever been reasonably priced? Here's an example from the 1966 Western Star dining car menu, where the 8 oz. ribeye steak dinner is $4.20, about $27 in today's money. Isn't that what the steak on the Empire Builder costs now? And weren't sleeper passengers paying for that meal on top of their sleeper accommodation?

I think that dining car food is generally better than it was in the mid-90s, certainly it's more consistent. What I really wish was a greater variety on the menu. It is a shame that mostly I don't bother picking up the menu before ordering.

One point here that is somewhat changed from your pricing of fares. The diner may have been extra but considering the price of a room was often about half more than a coach fare it didn't seem excessive in any way to pay for a meal. Now with prices often 5 to 10 times the price of coach one could feel that a lowered food standard and service are somewhat out of line with the cost of the fare.

 

[Ispolkom]

considering the price of a room was often about half more than a coach fare

I'm sorry. Every time you bring up the ratio of prices between coach and sleeper fares pre-Amtrak, I will have to remind you that, adjusted for inflation, sleeper fares are comparable now to what they were pre-Amtrak. The ratio is different because coach fares are so cheap now.

Raising coach fares to pre-Amtrak levels won't make me feel any better about what I pay for a sleeper.