New Canada-US Customs Pre-Clearance

[DSS&A]

Canada and USA now have a new Customs Pre-Clearance Agreement that covers railroads in addition to airports.

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2019/08/15/united-states-and-canada-implement-preclearance-agreement

 

[supportamtrak]

If MTR gets pre-clearance, this is going to cut 1 to 2 hours of travel (stalled) time on the Adirondack.

 

[jis]

Someone has to get Quebec to pony up the money for building the facilities at Montreal Central first though. Of course getting this agreement in place is an important pre-requisite and it is good that it is finally in place.

 

[supportamtrak]

As far as I know, CBSA is still a branch of the Canadian Government, CBP the US and MTR is owned by a private company... So the role of the Quebec Government would be limited in scope if any, like showering a private company with tax breaks.

 

[cocojacoby]

This is great news, but I am not sure I understand the exact procedure. In Montreal there is going to be a separate customs facility. When you get off the train I can see that you easily can go through Canadian customs. But when you get on the train is there going to be US customs officials there?

Also what about the station between the border and Montreal, St. Lambert?

Hopefully this makes the return of the Montrealer immanent. This is a no-brainer and really needs to happen.

Also maybe this helps with the concept of running a section of the Lake Shore/New England States through Canada which could be really interesting.

 

[railiner]

I kind of doubt that the US would station personnel at St. Lambert for a few occasional passengers, so that stop may go away once preclearance is implemented.
I suppose they could have an agent ride the train from Montreal to Rouses Point to check any passengers boarding at St. Lambert...

 

[jis]

It has been mentioned in all documentation regarding instituting C&I at Gare Centrale in Montreal that the stop at St. Lambert will be discontinued. So it is not a question of "may go away". It "will go away". The train(s) will run "sealed" from/to Gare Centrale to/from the border, first stop in US - Rouses Point for the Adirondack, St. Albans for the extended Vermonter.

The facilities needed at Gare Centrale has been designed and AFAIR signed off by the stake holders, but it is not yet fully funded.

 

[PVD]

I don't know for sure if it is still in place, but the border stop that occurred going South on the West Coast would no longer be necessary with 100% pre clearance. That may be the first impact on rail we see.

 

[jis]

I don't know for sure if it is still in place, but the border stop that occurred going South on the West Coast would no longer be necessary with 100% pre clearance. That may be the first impact on rail we see.

You mean the US CBP's ridiculous "we finalize customs check at the border" collection of the Customs forms at Blaine? I doubt that has anything to do with this, and nothing can stop CBP from coming up with new sillinesses either.

 

[PVD]

I thought 100% pre-clearance, if implemented would eliminate that, like the airports. Not sure.

 

[jis]

I thought 100% pre-clearance, if implemented would eliminate that, like the airports. Not sure.

One would hope so, but CBP will do whatever suits them. It is not clear to me what is the purpose of that charade so it is hard to tell whether said purpose, whatever it is has changed any. The use of the phrase "full pre-clearance" as opposed to "pre-inspection" certainly brings hope of such streamlining.

 

[jiml]

Full pre-clearance when flying doesn't always mean full clearance. It doesn't take much for a pre-cleared plane from Canada to divert to the international terminal at the destination US airport for any irregularity. Doesn't happen often, but as a 2MM flyer I've experienced this a few times over the years - usually at JFK or MIA. You just hope your tiny jet has not arrived at the same time as a few wide-bodies from overseas. Also, some other countries with pre-clearance agreements - Ireland and Aruba come to mind - include only Immigration inspection, with Customs completed at the destination US airport.

 

[PRR 60]

Full pre-clearance when flying doesn't always mean full clearance. It doesn't take much for a pre-cleared plane from Canada to divert to the international terminal at the destination US airport for any irregularity. Doesn't happen often, but as a 2MM flyer I've experienced this a few times over the years - usually at JFK or MIA. You just hope your tiny jet has not arrived at the same time as a few wide-bodies from overseas. Also, some other countries with pre-clearance agreements - Ireland and Aruba come to mind - include only Immigration inspection, with Customs completed at the destination US airport.

At least as far as Ireland is concerned (DUB and SNN), pre-clearance is full pre-clearance - immigration and customs. USA Arrivals from DUB and SNN are treated as domestic arrivals. Luggage checked through a USA connection is not claimed until the final destination.

 

[jiml]

It has been mentioned in all documentation regarding instituting C&I at Gare Centrale in Montreal that the stop at St. Lambert will be discontinued. So it is not a question of "may go away". It "will go away". The train(s) will run "sealed" from/to Gare Centrale to/from the border, first stop in US - Rouses Point for the Adirondack, St. Albans for the extended Vermonter.

The facilities needed at Gare Centrale has been designed and AFAIR signed off by the stake holders, but it is not yet fully funded.

As usual, your information is spot-on. I still won't be surprised if we see pre-clearance in Toronto Union for a non-stop-to-the-border Maple Leaf before Montreal gets their act together. I know you disagree on this, but the impending bustitution on the Canadian side of this route will be a test of VIA's longevity in the Niagara Falls market. Once GO achieves 4x daily VIA could exit the route and the Maple Leaf could very well run sealed.

 

[jiml]

At least as far as Ireland is concerned (DUB and SNN), pre-clearance is full pre-clearance - immigration and customs. USA Arrivals from DUB and SNN are treated as domestic arrivals. Luggage checked through a USA connection is not claimed until the final destination.

I last flew from DUB on AA about 5 years ago. Cleared US Immigration there, but Customs was in Chicago. An AA representative ushered passengers past the initial set of booths in ORD, but we had to present our forms and discuss baggage content with Customs inspectors before proceeding to connections or baggage claim.

 

[PVD]

Full pre clearance from Canada at the airports is different than overseas. It has allowed baggage to be inspected and planes to fly to airports that don't regularly do Customs inspections for scheduled passenger flights. Toronto and Montreal to LaGuardia, your bags are inspected by US Customs allowed by treaty to work in Canada.

 

[PRR 60]

I last flew from DUB on AA about 5 years ago. Cleared US Immigration there, but Customs was in Chicago. An AA representative ushered passengers past the initial set of booths in ORD, but we had to present our forms and discuss baggage content with Customs inspectors before proceeding to connections or baggage claim.

DUB Airport Pre-clearance
Aer Lingus

 

[jiml]

Full pre clearance from Canada at the airports is different than overseas. It has allowed baggage to be inspected and planes to fly to airports that don't regularly do Customs inspections for scheduled passenger flights. Toronto and Montreal to LaGuardia, your bags are inspected by US Customs allowed by treaty to work in Canada.

That has certainly been my understanding. Not every Canadian airport has pre-clearance either.

 

[jiml]

DUB Airport Pre-clearance
Aer Lingus

I'm not doubting you; just stating the case on my last flight - 5 years ago, and we were on the seasonal AA service - not Aer Lingus (who may be footing the bill for the service).

 

[PRR 60]

I'm not doubting you; just stating the case on my last flight - 5 years ago, and we were on the seasonal AA service - not Aer Lingus (who may be footing the bill for the service).

I'm not doubting your experience 5 years ago, but simply stating that today full USA pre-clearance is offered at DUB and SNN with no need for a stop at customs inspection upon arrival in the USA. It is the same pre-clearance provided at select Canadian airports. All USA bound flights at DUB receive full pre-clearance except Ethiopian (ET) non-stops to LAX (due to terminal used at DUB) - now canceled.

 

[Anthony V]

This good news should also help with getting service restored between Chicago, Detroit, and Toronto.

 

[railiner]

As usual, your information is spot-on. I still won't be surprised if we see pre-clearance in Toronto Union for a non-stop-to-the-border Maple Leaf before Montreal gets their act together. I know you disagree on this, but the impending bustitution on the Canadian side of this route will be a test of VIA's longevity in the Niagara Falls market. Once GO achieves 4x daily VIA could exit the route and the Maple Leaf could very well run sealed.

What's this? First time I've heard of this...are you saying, VIA Rail will no longer participate in the operation of the Maple Leaf? That it will become an all-Amtrak train?

 

[dogbert617]

I last flew from DUB on AA about 5 years ago. Cleared US Immigration there, but Customs was in Chicago. An AA representative ushered passengers past the initial set of booths in ORD, but we had to present our forms and discuss baggage content with Customs inspectors before proceeding to connections or baggage claim.

They made you do the discussion about baggage content in Chicago O'Hare, and not over at the Dublin airport preclearance facility before boarding your plane? Since I flew into Ireland via Dublin and back via Dublin in 2017, and all the customs stuff was done over at the Dublin US customs preclearance facility, before you waited in that special terminal area to board your plane. And that once we landed in the US at O'Hare, it was nice not having to go through US customs, and be able to go straight to baggage claim.

Hopefully this agreement, really does mean that finally the Montreal Amtrak/VIA combined station will finally get a preclearance facility.

 

[jis]

https://vtdigger.org/2019/08/15/preclearance-issues-extend-wait-for-rail-service-to-montreal/

 

[MikefromCrete]

What's this? First time I've heard of this...are you saying, VIA Rail will no longer participate in the operation of the Maple Leaf? That it will become an all-Amtrak train?

Well, since there are currently no plans for a pre-clearance facility in Toronto, I wouldn't place any bets on it happening soon. But, if GO Transit does increase service year round Toronto-Niagara Falls, I guess VIA might want to exit the market. But of course, that could mean a transfer between Amtrak and GO at Niagara Falls, Ont., or a bus transfer from New York to Ontario. Be careful of what you wish for.