New dining options (flex dining) effective October 1, 2019

[crescent-zephyr]

Delta first class just gave me a cup of melting sorbet. So I thought the warm cookie was pretty classy!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I did not realize they serve anything on those RJs. Do they? Actually I have not set foot on a Regional Jet in quite a while since none of my usual travels involves one. I was domestic first class on UA mainline flights longer than 2 hours. I should have made it clear I suppose.

Yeah, they serve pantry snacks. No different than AA and DL. The majority of US domestic flights are on regional jets, which is why arguing one airline's domestic meal service over another doesn't mean that much to most US travelers regardless of cabin. I guess it's still a factor on coast-to-coast and hub-to-hub flights though.

 

[jiml]

Here’s an example of American Airlines Domestic First Class meal. I can’t say personally if it’s better than the current Amtrak box meals, but I know the Amtrak dining car meals are better, in my opinion.

The twice-baked potato pictured is actually pretty good when I've had it.

 

[jiml]

Oh no, I am talking of actual dessert, usually a wedge of cheesecake or some such. The warm cookies come later anyway in addition to that, at least on United.

Has to do with length of flight and time of day on AA. The empty plate pictured is for the hot pretzel roll and dessert is served separately. Lunchtime flights under 3 hours usually get the warm cookies, longer usually something a bit better. Dinner flights under 3 hours get a proper dessert, with longer usually hot fudge or "turtle" sundaes and cookies before arrival. In June CLT-SFO lunchtime yielded cocktails with hot nuts, separate appetizer course with the salad, entrée arrived separately with the aforementioned pretzel buns and dessert was sundaes or cheese plate. Cookies were served about an hour before arrival.

 

[PRR 60]

Yeah, they serve pantry snacks. No different than AA and DL. The majority of US domestic flights are on regional jets, which is why arguing one airline's domestic meal service over another doesn't mean that much to most US travelers regardless of cabin. I guess it's still a factor on coast-to-coast and hub-to-hub flights though.

I think this is a reasonably typical F meal in a regional - AA (Mesa) Bismarck ND to DFW in a CRJ9 last month. A little over 900 miles, depart at 5pm. The RJ galley's don't have warming ovens. It was OK. With only an hour to connect at DFW between B and C, it saved getting a grab and go.

 

[jiml]

I did not realize they serve anything on those RJs. Do they? Actually I have not set foot on a Regional Jet in quite a while since none of my usual travels involves one.

I was domestic first class on UA mainline flights longer than 2 hours. I should have made it clear I suppose.

Most RJ's have no ovens, so the best you're going to do is an entrée salad or similar. Unfortunately, all North American carriers are using them for longer and longer flights. UA flies a regional jet from Toronto to Houston - a 3.5 hour flight.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

The twice-baked potato pictured is actually pretty good when I've had it.

Agreed. I thought the whole meal was good... a step above Delta. But again a step down from my meals on Amtrak full service diners.

Also.. we did have the hot nuts with cocktails before the meal. It was Dallas to Ontario so not a super long flight. Again.. i thought the warm cookies were a pretty classy dessert... now I want that ice cream!!! ha.

 

[jiml]

Agreed. I thought the whole meal was good... a step above Delta. But again a step down from my meals on Amtrak full service diners.

Also.. we did have the hot nuts with cocktails before the meal. It was Dallas to Ontario so not a super long flight. Again.. i thought the warm cookies were a pretty classy dessert... now I want that ice cream!!! ha.

Not to drag this too far off-topic, but we have done that route frequently. We used to spend a week every February in Palm Springs and YYZ-DFW-ONT was often cheaper than flying direct to PSP, especially when car rental was factored in. The total saving could be significant for the minor inconvenience of a one-hour drive. Of course I also enjoyed the drive along I-10 with the never-ending UP parade adjacent to the highway.

 

[jiml]

This reminds me that UA also flies a regional jet from Palm Springs, California to Chicago. It was a long flight and the only hot food in First Class was in the lounge in Chicago. Airlines can be as inconsistent as Amtrak.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I think this is a reasonably typical F meal in a regional - AA (Mesa) Bismarck ND to DFW in a CRJ9 last month. A little over 900 miles, depart at 5pm. The RJ galley's don't have warming ovens. It was OK. With only an hour to connect at DFW between B and C, it saved getting a grab and go.View attachment 14913

I honestly don't have a problem with the lack of meals on most domestic flights, and even if I did I can usually pickup something at the airport. What does surprise me is that AA no longer serves a hot meal in coach on 8-hour Hawaiian flights. That's long enough for a real meal IMO.

 

[me_little_me]

So,to get back on topic, Amtrak has still not made a formal announcement about it? Crescent coach passengers being able to purchase a nice breakfast in Charlottesville will be sadly disappointed and sleeper passengers going southbound will find out the hard way that the steak dinner they expected to get is no more.

 

[railiner]

I am truly sorry to see the full service diner going away. I am glad I experienced the Crescent in November, and the Silver Meteor, last month.
And, I look forward to the CZ in January.
I would really have to reconsider taking any more long distance trains, if that experience was no longer available.

As for the coach passenger's...I can't understand why they won't permit them to purchase the new 'contemporary' meals...is it possible that they lose money providing even that 'amenity' to sleeper passenger's? I can't see how....
Even when I traveled overnite in coach, I would have all my meals in the diner for the experience...

 

[JP1822]

I think it is a capacity issue - or at least right now. How many box meals can they fit in a Viewliner II Kitchen area - that was not designed for box meals? Even after taking out what they could in the kitchens. Superliner Diners and Cross Country Cafes have more room than single level Viewliner Diner, but they’ve got to standardize it across various trains.

Amtrak has created value out of the “sleeper lounge” concept - an exclusive lounge and place that sleeping car passengers can take in the scenery and have a special lounge to themselves, especially with a double row of windows with the Viewliner Diner. Amtrak has made the car available 24 hours a day basically, where before it was just accessible at meal times.

 

[railiner]

You may have a point there, but I sure don't see it that way. The 'value' of a real diner, is to cook and serve good food in a pleasant atmosphere.
The new concept has destroyed that.

 

[Rasputin]

I am truly sorry to see the full service diner going away. I am glad I experienced the Crescent in November, and the Silver Meteor, last month.
And, I look forward to the CZ in January.
I would really have to reconsider taking any more long distance trains, if that experience was no longer available.

I know what you mean. We are considering a trip from Tucson to New Orleans next year on the Sunset. After a stopover of several days in New Orleans, we would ordinarily be taking the Crescent to DC but this time we will very likely fly the New Orleans to DC leg. The scenery on the Crescent is pleasant but not spectacular and with no dining car the value of the train is significantly reduced. If the Sunset loses its dining car we may re-think the whole trip.

Same goes with our trip next May from Boston to Colorado. We will go west on the Lake Shore and the CZ but fly back from Denver. I wouldn't mind the CZ from Denver to Chicago but the eastbound Lake Shore is no longer a reliable option so I think we will avoid it whenever we can.

 

[user 14106]

So,to get back on topic, Amtrak has still not made a formal announcement about it? Crescent coach passengers being able to purchase a nice breakfast in Charlottesville will be sadly disappointed and sleeper passengers going southbound will find out the hard way that the steak dinner they expected to get is no more.

Correct. Still no official announcement anywhere. We shall see over the next's week if they are going to give people a months notice.

 

[railiner]

Correct. Still no official announcement anywhere. We shall see over the next's week if they are going to give people a months notice.

Is there a possibility that they will maintain the present level of service, longer?

 

[pennyk]

Is there a possibility that they will maintain the present level of service, longer?

I think it is highly unlikely.

 

[cocojacoby]

I think it is a capacity issue

Passenger wise too. The beautiful new Viewliner diners are not a traditional 48 passenger diner layout. Due to an enormous waste of space for handicapped assessibility, the car looks like it has only 42 seats in some videos I have seen on Youtube. Take away the usual "setup" table and the usual "crew" table to hold all their personal stuff and you may be talking only 36 seats!

That's not a very efficient use of a dining car.

 

[railiner]

Passenger wise too. The beautiful new Viewliner diners are not a traditional 48 passenger diner layout. Due to an enormous waste of space for handicapped assessibility, the car looks like it has only 42 seats in some videos I have seen on Youtube. Take away the usual "setup" table and the usual "crew" table to hold all their personal stuff and you may be talking only 36 seats!

That's not a very efficient use of a dining car.

Agreed!

If you think that is '"inefficient", think back about the Fred Harvey diner's on the Santa Fe...many only had 36 seats, arranged in tables of two and four, and were staffed by a steward, six waiters, a chef, asst. chef, 3rd chef, dishwasher. etc.

 

[JP1822]

You may have a point there, but I sure don't see it that way. The 'value' of a real diner, is to cook and serve good food in a pleasant atmosphere.
The new concept has destroyed that.

Don’t get me wrong, I certainly agree with you on the basis and premise of a real railroad diner car - full service meals etc. as the train races to its destination. Unfortunately that current model just won’t fly. Anderson is after the long distance trains and their cost output.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Don’t get me wrong, I certainly agree with you on the basis and premise of a real railroad diner car - full service meals etc. as the train races to its destination. Unfortunately that current model just won’t fly. Anderson is after the long distance trains and their cost output.

Congress is after the long distance trains and their cost output. Anderson is following the mandate that Amtrak was given, aka doing his job.

 

[Rasputin]

Unfortunately that current model just won’t fly. Anderson is after the long distance trains and their cost output.

I think you are right. The current model won't fly under Anderson, but I probably will.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Congress is after the long distance trains and their cost output. Anderson is following the mandate that Amtrak was given, aka doing his job.

More recently it appears that Congress is the party trying to save Amtrak's LD network from its own board. Anderson could still fulfill his job duties by pushing back and building support against these rules, it's not like Mica is in a position to actively defend his prior attacks, but instead Anderson has chosen to dump more fuel on the fire by ignoring concerned supporters and activists while pushing for permanent bustitutions.

 

[jis]

The rules came from FAST 2015. Congress has not done anything to rescind any language that was adopted in the FAST Act. At best Congress is pussyfooting around trying to save a few local turfs while avoiding addressing the problem at large.

Anderson of course has some agenda of his own like all CEOs do, and I don't agree with some significant parts of his agenda, while I do agree with some other parts. But he has the language adopted by Congress and now in 49 CFR more on his side than the Congressional majority apparently even. But still Congress does not seem to be anxious enough to want want to fix that, and is apparently willing to sit out the rest of the lifetime of FAST 2015.

Given the earliest we will know for sure where Congress wants to go with all this is when they publish drafts of the proposed language in the new Authorization Bill for Surface Transportation. I have heard rumors that there are drafts floating around in the Commerce Committee which they are unwilling to share with the likes of RPA or anyone else outside the Committee staff except for whoever, if any, outsider they have chosen to work with. No one knows beyond those directly involved as to who exactly is penning such language at present. I am sure as soon as drafts become available we will know about it.

And meanwhile I suspect the Board and Anderson will continue to do whatever it is that they are doing.