New dining options (flex dining) effective October 1, 2019

[RichieRich]

There is a market for it that the likes of the American Orient Express tried to capture but failed.

Wow...that brings back some memories. I used to take it from DC to Chicago. It was pulled by Amtrak. People would dress for dinner back then.

 

[fdaley]

In regards to dining car service, the diner is dead, the new reality is the food service being offered presently. Hopefully Amtrak will tweak it to make it bearable. My perception is it could be made better by the on board crew providing better service and perhaps additional staffing. Dinner selection's we're ok, the break fast was awefull.

The reality for a fair number of us is that if the diner is dead, these trains are basically dead in terms of our willingness to ride them. We used to take the Lake Shore on the first leg of a family trip to California most winters, but this year we didn't go. Flexi-faux dining is why. There is no way I would pay $700 for us to take a bedroom on the Lake Shore with the current horrible food offerings. There might be something short of restoration of traditional dining that would be satisfactory, but it would have to be way better than what's offered now for me to consider it.

 

[Palmland]

I just sampled cafe food on the Palmetto. My chicken and bacon wrap wasn’t bad (just don’t read the ingredients and nutritional labels). I don’t see why Amtrak can’t offer this to sleeper passengers. I would much prefer that for lunch rather than the flex menu, especially since you would see the same thing again for dinner.

 

[fdaley]

I will be travelling on the Empire Builder from Seattle to Chicago in May - ticking "crossing the USA by train" off my bucket list and in light of this thread I am wondering if I should abandon all hope of getting a decent meal (I have a roomette) and take rations with me!
I understand there is a very good deli open on Sundays around the corner from King Street Station so I might need to stock up there.
Any suggestions would be most welcome!

The Empire Builder still has the traditional dining service, so you'll be fine. It's maybe not as great as it once was, but the food on that train is still far superior to anything served east of Chicago. Enjoy your trip, and get up early the first morning so you can see Glacier Park.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

Many people don't like the taste of the food on the eastern trains either. I'm not among them as I am not a foodie.

Barb, many of us who are complaining are not foodies at all. I don't cook and don't have a clue how to use anything in the kitchen except the microwave, have been in my fair share of diners and delis, and think the Potbelly's milkshake is a thing of beauty.

What we object to is spending hundreds of dollars for a sleeper and then getting meals that are essentially TV dinners in a new train car that was created to look beautiful and be elegant but now has been made to feel like a school cafeteria.

 

[the_traveler]

Yes. The food is not worth it on the eastern trains.

You pay good money to take a train OMA-SLC or KCY-FLG and you can have real food - even as a coach passenger. But you also pay good money to take a train WAS-ORL or ALB-CLE and you get a TV dinner if you’re in a sleeper. If you’re in coach, you’re stuck with the cafe - and you can’t even see the new diners that you (as a taxpayer) paid for except from the outside!

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I pay for the room & ability to sleep in a bed and ease of changing clothes. Having food included is a plus. I don’t care if it’s fine dining or what I’d normally have at home. As to the “beautiful” new diner, I still enjoyed its beauty. Also, I have shared tables with others a time or two after the start of contemporary/flex dining.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I pay for the room & ability to sleep in a bed and ease of changing clothes. Having food included is a plus. I don’t care if it’s fine dining or what I’d normally have at home. As to the “beautiful” new diner, I still enjoyed its beauty. Also, I have shared tables with others a time or two after the start of contemporary/flex dining.

Fine dining? We went from Denny’s / Applebee’s quality to TV dinner quality. Do you always eat microwave dinners at home?

 

[PRR 60]

Fine dining? We went from Denny’s / Applebee’s quality to TV dinner quality. Do you always eat microwave dinners at home?

The flex meals are not microwaved. They are warmed in convection ovens - same as Acela First Class and aircraft galleys.

 

[tricia]

The flex meals are not microwaved. They are warmed in convection ovens - same as Acela First Class and aircraft galleys.

They're "microwave dinners" in the sense that that's how they'd typically be prepared in an American home. Similar in quality and kind to lower-end microwave dinners you'd buy in a supermarket.

 

[pennyk]

I pay for the room & ability to sleep in a bed and ease of changing clothes. Having food included is a plus. I don’t care if it’s fine dining or what I’d normally have at home. As to the “beautiful” new diner, I still enjoyed its beauty. Also, I have shared tables with others a time or two after the start of contemporary/flex dining.

I also have shared tables with others a few times after the "new" dining. Because I have food allergies, I cannot eat any of the lunch or dinner entrees, so the food has become irrelevant to me. I want to sleep in a bed and apparently (so far) I will pay whatever it takes if I want to travel. Although I am not eating the new entrees, I am drinking the "unlimited" ice tea and the one alcoholic beverage. I, too, enjoy the new diner/sleeper lounge.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

The flex meals are not microwaved. They are warmed in convection ovens - same as Acela First Class and aircraft galleys.

Are you sure? I can’t speak for Acela first class but the dinners I had were not comparable to domestic first class air.

I thought they had to install microwaves on the diners since they already had convvection ovens?

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Fine dining? We went from Denny’s / Applebee’s quality to TV dinner quality. Do you always eat microwave dinners at home?

No, I usually eat microwaved hot dogs. [emoji57]

 

[fdaley]

What we object to is spending hundreds of dollars for a sleeper and then getting meals that are essentially TV dinners in a new train car that was created to look beautiful and be elegant but now has been made to feel like a school cafeteria.

To me, it does rub salt in the wound that the new Viewliner diners are being used in this way. On the Lake Shore, we put up with "diner lite" service in an Amfleet lounge for years with the promise that new dining cars were on order. Then the moment the new cars arrive, Amtrak fires all but one of the crew and uses the brand-new kitchen only to hand out prepackaged meals, which in the first iteration of flexi-faux dining they didn't even bother to heat up. As first-class service, it's just an insult. And I don't agree with closing the diner to coach passengers, although at this point on the eastern trains they're really not missing much.

 

[me_little_me]

In my experience on my Crescent trips since the Contemptible Dining started, the diners in the diner are few and far between and even less if you count the sleeper passengers who buy cafe food to eat in the diner. Where once you had fairly full seating, you now have empty tables even though people are not sitting together. Even if the new "food" is sold for takeout or delivery to coach passengers, there's more than enough room to add more sales even if it means removing some of the bench seats. Unless Amtrak decides to make half the diner-lounges into half sitting and half lounge seating for sleeper passengers, they have lots of wasted space.
Perhaps they should change them into diner-lounge-baggage cars? Or diner-lounge-dorm cars or even diner-lounge-cab cars - diner-lounge-DMUs(?) and put them at the front of the train. Hey, anything to make Anderson happy.

 

[neroden]

LSL has passenger counts sharply down from two years ago. Nobody is eating in the diner for breakfast, because there is no food there, only sugar. Amtrak has thrown away revenue faster than it cut costs and increased the need for Congressional subsidy. It is not being managed like a for profit business in my professional opinion as an investor, and Anderson has given grounds to be fired for cause.

There is literally nothing for me in the dining car (I don't eat alcohol or coffee either) except hot water. The cafe car menu was just degraded so there is nothing for me there either except the hot water.

I still pay for a bed but I bring my own food. Oatmeal dissolves well in the hot water.

It is mismanagement and seems to be an attempt to decrease revenue and ridership while keeping costs high. Not satisfied with the profit which the Eastern trains were making, Gardner and Anderson were intent on driving them into losses. Criminal, really.

 

[Samsbigtrip]

[...]because you're taking a western train, you are fine and don't need to worry about the food unless you expect hundreds of items on the menu. Since you have already paid for the meals by getting a roomette, don't bring a bunch of excess food onboard unless you have severely diet restrictions or just have a must-have certain type of snack jones.

Many thanks Barb - that explains it very well and has reassured me that I don't need to stock up on food!

This trip is so exciting and I'm really only going to the west coast to visit Jordan Fabrics, a fabulous quilting fabric shop in Grants Pass, OR. I'm bonkers, I know I'll also be walking in the Redwoods, dipping my toe in the Pacific in California (never done it, never been there), horse-riding Western-style for the first time, and staying with friends in Norfolk, VA and in Connecticut before flying back home to the UK. 6 flights, 5 hotels, one AirBNB, and two nights on a train - all in 18 days! I have to do it now while I am still (71) young enough to do it

 

[Samsbigtrip]

Bring some wine, you'll be fine.

Absolutely!

 

[fdaley]

LSL has passenger counts sharply down from two years ago. Nobody is eating in the diner for breakfast, because there is no food there, only sugar. Amtrak has thrown away revenue faster than it cut costs and increased the need for Congressional subsidy.

This is really the crucial issue. It is quite possible that the "savings" from eliminating traditional dining service on the eastern trains will be entirely offset by lost revenue from fewer people buying sleeper rooms. On the Lake Shore and Capitol, overall ridership for FY19 (the fiscal year that ended Sept. 30) was down 8 to 10 percent from FY17, the last full year with traditional dining service. Worse, the market for sleeping-car travel includes a very large pool of occasional riders, so the ridership decline is likely to continue over time as more of these people try the new service for the first time and find out how truly awful it is. My fear is that many of them won't return. So rather than saving money, "flexible dining" might actually increase the net cost of running the eastern long-distance trains. Certainly, if the goal was to chase away the most lucrative customers on these trains, it's working.

 

[20th Century Rider]

The Empire Builder still has the traditional dining service, so you'll be fine. It's maybe not as great as it once was, but the food on that train is still far superior to anything served east of Chicago. Enjoy your trip, and get up early the first morning so you can see Glacier Park.

You will enjoy the traditional dining experience when you travel the Empire Builder this May… pending no further changes for now. This means traditional table seating community style with random seating placement by the waiting staff… with other travelers. This creates that unique opportunity to connect with others. You will find that ‘everyone has a story to tell’ with the potential of interesting conversations and making friends. All that said, the quality and quantity level of this dining experience is still quite good… and actual meal preparation depends on the chef for that trip. It wise to go now while this dining opportunity is still around… and the longer days in May will allow you to enjoy the beautiful mountain scenery out of Whitefish.

More information on traditional dining is available on the Amtrak website.

 

[Samsbigtrip]

[...] Enjoy your trip, and get up early the first morning so you can see Glacier Park.

Thank you! I gather when to get up rather depends on how late the train is running but I intent to quiz the Conductor as to the best way to get the best views. I'm rather hoping for a north-facing roomette but I understand it's the luck of the draw and depends on how the train is configured. Did I mention before how excited I am about this trip?
Best wishes
Samantha

 

[20th Century Rider]

You are right... the north side gets the best views and has the least sun glare. It is luck of the draw which side you are on. I have been on the south side several times... and have developed a mental set... to enjoy the trip just as much! You may want to spend more time in the observation car where the views are all around; and more opportunities for casual conversation with others to share the experience.

 

[Samsbigtrip]

[...]You may want to spend more time in the observation car where the views are all around; and more opportunities for casual conversation with others to share the experience.

That's my plan! Travelling alone is a great opportunity to meet other people and hear their stories

 

[crescent-zephyr]

You are right... the north side gets the best views and has the least sun glare. It is luck of the draw which side you are on. I have been on the south side several times... and have developed a mental set... to enjoy the trip just as much! You may want to spend more time in the observation car where the views are all around; and more opportunities for casual conversation with others to share the experience.

For Glacier Park you really want to be in the lounge car. So much scenery to see on both sides of the train!
Also... the next morning don't miss out on the views of the Mississippi River as you leave St. Paul. In the morning, the bald eagles fish from the river. On my last trip I saw 2 dozen eagles along that stretch and I'm sure I missed just as many. They are everywhere! Watching bald eagles fish from the Mississippi while riding the Empire Builder is as American as it gets!

 

[Barciur]

I think some people overestimate the food as part of the experience, especially for a new rider. The occasional rider who has never taken the train will only have a comparison to airline food service and not comparing it to the older train. People who have taken a sleeper trip in Europe before but not in America will compare the fact that there IS some sort of food service to that it not existing in Europe and the fact that the room is totally private. So I don't really think it will have as much of a ridership impact as some people think. I'm sure it will, but I think it is being a bit blown out of proportion here. After all, the most important part of the trip is the actual riding the rails in a sleeper.