New high speed service between Berlin and Paris (2024)

[Willbridge]

SNCF and DB have negotiated and International Railway Journal reports:

German Rail (DB) and French National Railways (SNCF) will launch a direct high-speed service between Berlin and Paris on December 16, operating once a day in each direction and offering a journey time of 8 hours.

 

[Urban Sky]

SNCF and DB have negotiated and International Railway Journal reports:

German Rail (DB) and French National Railways (SNCF) will launch a direct high-speed service between Berlin and Paris on December 16, operating once a day in each direction and offering a journey time of 8 hours.

If I recall correctly, this is an existing Berlin-Erfurt-Frankfurt ICE Sprinter train and an existing Frankfurt-Paris ICE International train which are connected through rather than an entirely new service (though connection time in Frankfurt was probably too short to transfer between the two, but there hasn‘t been a shortage of other Berlin-Frankfurt trains).

It‘s a bit like Amtrak combining the Cardinal Capitol and Silver Star and calling the new train the „Floridian“…

 

[jiml]

If I recall correctly, this is an existing Berlin-Erfurt-Frankfurt ICE Sprinter train and an existing Frankfurt-Paris ICE International train which are connected through rather than an entirely new service (though connection time in Frankfurt was probably too short to transfer between the two, but there hasn‘t been a shortage of Berlin-Frankfurt trains).

It‘s a bit like Amtrak combining the Cardinal and Silver Star and calling the new train the „Floridian“…

I think you meant Capitol and Silver Star.

There has also been Nightjet service on this route for awhile now. IIRC the "new" train was first talked about pre-pandemic. No surprise it has taken this long to launch.

 

[cirdan]

There has also been Nightjet service on this route for awhile now. IIRC the "new" train was first talked about pre-pandemic. No surprise it has taken this long to launch.

I guess it's discontinued now because of the war and sanctions and all that, but there even used to be a train from Moscow via Berlin to Paris that ran between one and three times a week, and another from Moscow via Vienna to Nice.

 

[Willbridge]

Here's additional information that isn't paywalled.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/ne...&cvid=a35aeae7c492442aacf3b545e181c4a8&ei=177

 

[Urban Sky]

Here's additional information that isn't paywalled.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/ne...&cvid=a35aeae7c492442aacf3b545e181c4a8&ei=177

Actually, that article makes it sound like it‘s an additional connection, which will stop in Frankfurt-Süd rather than Frankfurt Hauptbahnhof…

 

[jiml]

Actually, that article makes it sound like it‘s an additional connection, which will stop in Frankfurt-Süd rather than Frankfurt Hauptbahnhof…

Time saving?

 

[cirdan]

Time saving?

I guess time saving. Trains need to reverse at Frankfurt Hauptbahnhof, and the approaches are a bit of a pinch point as well. Maybe it's also a marketing issue. As in short-haul riders might crowd out long distance passengers.

 

[Urban Sky]

I guess time saving. Trains need to reverse at Frankfurt Hauptbahnhof, and the approaches are a bit of a pinch point as well. Maybe it's also a marketing issue. As in short-haul riders might crowd out long distance passengers.

Skipping Frankfurt Hbf saves less than 10 minutes, so most of the travel time saving will come from eliminating the transfer time at Frankfurt Hbf, but travel times Berlin-Frankfurt and Frankfurt-Paris should otherwise remain the same…

 

[Urban Sky]

Apparently, there are only 4 intermediary stops between Berlin Hbf and Paris-Est (Berlin-Spandau - Frankfurt-Süd - Karlsruhe Hbf - Strasbourg) with an operational stop at Kassel-Wilhelmshöhe (where train drivers get relieved):

https://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?002,10917112,page=3

 

[Willbridge]

Apparently, there are only 4 intermediary stops between Berlin Hbf and Paris-Est (Berlin-Spandau - Frankfurt-Süd - Karlsruhe Hbf - Strasbourg) with an operational stop at Kassel-Wilhelmshöhe (where train drivers get relieved):

https://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?002,10917112,page=3

Thanks for posting this. It will be interesting to see if they resist adding stops, especially at Kassel-W.

 

[Urban Sky]

Thanks for posting this. It will be interesting to see if they resist adding stops, especially at Kassel-W.

It‘s apparently part of a new ICE Sprinter line, which generally runs non-stop between Frankfurt and Berlin-Spandau. Additional stops are highly unlikely, as all potential stops already have at least hourly service to Berlin and Frankfurt. Also, the train bypasses Hannover Hbf, which would have otherwise been the only city interesting for international tourists…

 

[Willbridge]

It‘s apparently part of a new ICE Sprinter line, which generally runs non-stop between Frankfurt and Berlin-Spandau. Additional stops are highly unlikely, as all potential stops already have at least hourly service to Berlin and Frankfurt. Also, the train bypasses Hannover Hbf, which would have otherwise been the only city interesting for international tourists…

I've ridden an ICE train that took the Hannover bypass, and it was 15 minutes slower than the scheduled time. However, it was just a detour, so perhaps there was other unusual traffic. We ran 15 minutes late all the way to Berlin Hbf.

I hadn't thought of Kassel <> Frankfurt or Berlin. I was thinking of Kassel <> France.

 

[cirdan]

It‘s apparently part of a new ICE Sprinter line, which generally runs non-stop between Frankfurt and Berlin-Spandau. Additional stops are highly unlikely, as all potential stops already have at least hourly service to Berlin and Frankfurt. Also, the train bypasses Hannover Hbf, which would have otherwise been the only city interesting for international tourists…

I wonder what the logic of serving Spandau is, in other words stopping in Berlin twice, while not serving many other places, including Wilhelmshöhe?

 

[Urban Sky]

I wonder what the logic of serving Spandau is, in other words stopping in Berlin twice, while not serving many other places, including Wilhelmshöhe?

Same reason why all VIA services stopping in Montreal, Ottawa and Toronto also stop in Dorval, Fallowfield or Oshawa (if these stations are along the route served): because for many of the people living in these metropolitan cities, reaching these satellite stations is much more convenient than reaching the downtown termini…

 

[Willbridge]

Since the 1920's, Berlin has had the goal of having every main line make such a suburban stop at a location with good access to rapid transit. It's taken a while, due to a 50-year interruption. The attached map shows rapid transit and regional rail lines. Spandau is on the upper left.

 

[Willbridge]

Promotions have begun... with a PhotoShop miracle and marketing German.

 

[Urban Sky]

The service launched, as planned, last weekend, using the newly refurbished Riedbahn between Frankfurt and Mannheim:
https://amp.dw.com/en/berlin-paris-high-speed-rail-route-launched/a-71069267