New Rehabilitated Superliners unveiled

[Dustyroad]

The roomette seats in particular look like they came out of a '60's classic auto.

I hope those blue lines across the pillowcase are not raised piping that will leave corresponding indentations on the side of my face.

I hope so too. I am a little short and it might be where my head is.

 

[PaulM]

Very encouraging report and pictures, particularly the dining car. Real cloth napkins; flowers; real dinnerware and flatware; an improved menu: Christmas is coming early this year!

Never mind Christmas. I had to double check that the release wasn't dated 4/1.

 

[Ferroequinologist]

To quote Jim Matthews of RPA “This is only a soft surface refresh”. So no change to any hardware.

Afterall there is only so much you can do with less than 80k per car.

It's an indication that they aren't going to be replacing the Superliners any time soon - a shame to miss out on all the federal money circulating.

 

[neroden]

It's an indication that they aren't going to be replacing the Superliners any time soon - a shame to miss out on all the federal money circulating.

Lead time on railcar orders is long. Even if they order new Superliners this year with federal money allocated this year, they aren't getting the first one for at least five years.

The Siemens, Alstom, Kawasaki, and CAF plants are booked several years ahead, and any other manufacturer would probably have to build a new US assembly plant, or at least have to hire new employees. It's going to be Siemens or Alstom anyway.

Also, if it's anything other than Siemens's single-level coaches, design of the new cars is going to take a year or two just to make sure it's compliant with current regulations. Sleepers will definitely take a couple of years of design work.

This soft-surface replacement is designed to keep the Superliners tolerable for that time period, and you can't read anything into it about the replacement of the Superliners, which wouldn't have the first car delivered for years in any case.

 

[Ferroequinologist]

Lead time on railcar orders is long. Even if they order new Superliners this year with federal money allocated this year, they aren't getting the first one for at least five years.

The Siemens, Alstom, Kawasaki, and CAF plants are booked several years ahead, and any other manufacturer would probably have to build a new US assembly plant, or at least have to hire new employees. It's going to be Siemens or Alstom anyway.

Also, if it's anything other than Siemens's single-level coaches, design of the new cars is going to take a year or two just to make sure it's compliant with current regulations. Sleepers will definitely take a couple of years of design work.

This soft-surface replacement is designed to keep the Superliners tolerable for that time period, and you can't read anything into it about the replacement of the Superliners, which wouldn't have the first car delivered for years in any case.

Perhaps but I have not heard a peep out of Amtrak regarding a new fleet. And how can the existing equipment be made tolerable without some mechanical work? A new cushion and a paint job will be little comfort when the AC doesn't work. I'd rather apply that $80,000 to fixing the mechanics. My fear is that they will not lobby Congress for funding for new Superliner equipment. Hope I am wrong.

 

[jis]

Perhaps but I have not heard a peep out of Amtrak regarding a new fleet. And how can the existing equipment be made tolerable without some mechanical work? A new cushion and a paint job will be little comfort when the AC doesn't work. I'd rather apply that $80,000 to fixing the mechanics. My fear is that they will not lobby Congress for funding for new Superliner equipment. Hope I am wrong.

You really need to go to the Amtrak web site, download the fleet plan and read it carefully

 

[PVD]

People seem to forget that the Acelas got a refresh even after the replacements had been ordered.....

 

[jis]

https://railfan.com/amtrak-begins-multi-year-effort-to-refurbish-long-distance-equipment/
This one has a photo of the table end of the SSL.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

A new cushion and a paint job will be little comfort when the AC doesn't work.

Have the AC units on individual superliners been failing?

 

[jis]

Have the AC units on individual superliners been failing?

Besides even if an AC unit on a car fails it should be fixed or replaced as a matter of maintenance. That has nothing to do with across the board mechanical overhaul of the car. I am also not sure how one goes about installing modern modular sealed rooftop AC untis in cars that are fundamentally not designed to take one or two such units, like say the Siemens Venture cars are. The Amfleets suffer from this same issue as do the Viewliners, even the newest ones apparently, unfortunately.

Yes it would be nice if all the cars could be stripped down to bare bones and rebuilt. But canceling how many trains or shortening how many trains further for a while to find the money to do it would anyone here tolerate? Wouldn't one also rather save that money if it is around to acquire completely new cars with a much longer overall life expectancy?

 

[cocojacoby]

https://railfan.com/amtrak-begins-multi-year-effort-to-refurbish-long-distance-equipment/
This one has a photo of the table end of the SSL.

This report mentions that LED lighting will be installed but other reports said negative on that. We will have to wait and see I guess.

 

[PVD]

There is more than one aspect to an LED retrofit. Fluorescent tubes can easily be replaced with LED tubes, they are available in types for installation with or without a ballast removal, and for more than one type of ballast. Swapping reading lights would be a separate, but not surprising refresh.

 

[cocojacoby]

From the article:


"Orange and brown color scheme?"

Here's a picture of a Superliner coach in service on June 9, 2021:

View attachment 22968

That doesn't look like "orange and brown" to me. Also, the "durable gray fabric" isn't fabric, but rather fake leather.

This is what they are talking about:

 

[railiner]

I hope that besides refreshing the interiors, they are also doing something about them mechanically to ensure they last until, well, whenever they are finally going to be replaced without causing undue maintenance problems.

Or at least fortify the interiors so passengers don’t need to use shims and duct tape…

 

[Ferroequinologist]

Besides even if an AC unit on a car fails it should be fixed or replaced as a matter of maintenance. That has nothing to do with across the board mechanical overhaul of the car. I am also not sure how one goes about installing modern modular sealed rooftop AC untis in cars that are fundamentally not designed to take one or two such units, like say the Siemens Venture cars are. The Amfleets suffer from this same issue as do the Viewliners, even the newest ones apparently, unfortunately.

Yes it would be nice if all the cars could be stripped down to bare bones and rebuilt. But canceling how many trains or shortening how many trains further for a while to find the money to do it would anyone here tolerate? Wouldn't one also rather save that money if it is around to acquire completely new cars with a much longer overall life expectancy?
[/QUOTE

If we knew for a fact that new Superliners were on the way it would be easier to tolerate the existing equipment, even if superficially reconditioned. What concerns me is the absence of any plan to replace them. Has money been allocated for new Superliners? I don't think the federal spending spree can go on forever.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

If we knew for a fact that new Superliners were on the way it would be easier to tolerate the existing equipment, even if superficially reconditioned. What concerns me is the absence of any plan to replace them. Has money been allocated for new Superliners? I don't think the federal spending spree can go on forever.

Did you bother following Jis' suggestion above and go to the Amtrak website and download the fleet plan?

 

[jis]

If we knew for a fact that new Superliners were on the way it would be easier to tolerate the existing equipment, even if superficially reconditioned. What concerns me is the absence of any plan to replace them. Has money been allocated for new Superliners? I don't think the federal spending spree can go on forever.

Having a plan and money being allocated are two different things that you conflate at your own peril.

There is a plan more than 5 years out. The way money is authorized and appropriated in the federal budgeting process, there is no way to have money allocated beyond just estimates of cost. It is beyond the five year authorization horizon. But still there is a plan and no amount of bellyaching about the fund allocation will make it happen at this time in the normal flow of things. There is also that open question about whether to continue with bi-levels or go for fleet uniformity that is yet to be answered. That would have an impact on what money to allocate for how many.

As for whether the US public will still want an LD network fiver years from now when the funding decisions come due, that in itself is of course anyone's guess depending on how the political winds blow. And BTW, even if the funds were allocated now they could as easily be rescinded a few years from now. It has happened before.

 

[west point]

let us see 80k per car. Revenue per car is hard to estimate but maybe $20k per trip. 4 trips would pay for the refresh.

 

[jis]

Or at least fortify the interiors so passengers don’t need to use shims and duct tape…

Don't put your shims and duct tapes away. This is only a soft surface refresh. The fixing up of any broken hard surfaces will happen in normal maintenance cycle I presume.

let us see 80k per car. Revenue per car is hard to estimate but maybe $20k per trip. 4 trips would pay for the refresh.

Since this is paid for out of normal revenues, one would presume something like that is happening. I suppose it is easier to take a hit when you are already down in the toilet and are being shored up by one time funds to cover for losses.

What bugs me is that they do not do this sort of thing like every five years or so. With the change in the authorization language moving the focus from profitability to maximize the benefits of Federal investment, some of this might change for the better. Only time will tell.

 

[west point]

There is more than one aspect to an LED retrofit. Fluorescent tubes can easily be replaced with LED tubes, they are available in types for installation with or without a ballast removal, and for more than one type of ballast. Swapping reading lights would be a separate, but not surprising refresh.

The LED replacements are fairly easy. I have several 2 bulb single pin fluorescent fixtures over 25 years old. With a little swapping around of failed ballasts and bulbs am slowly converting to all LED. Do not replace with ballast type LEDs as new ballasts will eventually fail and waste the electricity maintaining the ballast.. Rewiring just calls for neutral at one end and hot at other end for both connectors. That way only one bulb needs installation unless surplus of LED which one of my fixture has. The LED bulbs really put out a lot of light with just one
As bulbs and ballast go bad I rewire a unit at that time which takes about 30 - 40 minutes.

 

[PVD]

An LED does not use a ballast, it uses a driver. It would almost never make sense to replace the ballast and then install a ballast compatible LED. When I say LED with ballast, I am referring to an LED tube that will go into an existing fixture without rewiring to bypass the ballast.

 

[Ferroequinologist]

Having a plan and money being allocated are two different things that you conflate at your own peril.

There is a plan more than 5 years out. The way money is authorized and appropriated in the federal budgeting process, there is no way to have money allocated beyond just estimates of cost. It is beyond the five year authorization horizon. But still there is a plan and no amount of bellyaching about the fund allocation will make it happen at this time in the normal flow of things. There is also that open question about whether to continue with bi-levels or go for fleet uniformity that is yet to be answered. That would have an impact on what money to allocate for how many.

As for whether the US public will still want an LD network fiver years from now when the funding decisions come due, that in itself is of course anyone's guess depending on how the political winds blow. And BTW, even if the funds were allocated now they could as easily be rescinded a few years from now. It has happened before.

Interesting that they have a five year plan to replace the Superliners. Is there somewhere that we can read about this?

 

[Dustyroad]

It will be interesting to find out how many of the soap and shampoo dispenser are empty because the cabin steward is too busy to fill them. I will take my own to make sure I have some.

 

[zephyr17]

I actually hope they don't replace the soft original lighting in the Superliner II sleepers during a refurb. I hate the harsh, too bright lights in the refurbished Superliner Is. It leaks through the curtains, especially since they replaced they replaced the original, thick blackout curtains with much thinner material.

 

[jis]

Interesting that they have a five year plan to replace the Superliners. Is there somewhere that we can read about this?

No. They do not have a Five Year Plan to replace the Superliners. They have a plan to decide whether to rebuild or replace. Any execution of said plan once developed is beyond the five year horizon (post 2026). The Superliners will be around for at least ten more years as far as I can tell, unless they decide to rebuild of course.

I think the latest is in the document Five Year Plans - Service and Asset Line Plans FY 2021-2026. It is a public document posted at amtrak.com. It is a legally required document that has to be submitted to Congress as supporting document for funding Authorization and Appropriation request.