New Sleepers Being Planned!

[Bill Haithcoat]

Bill
Well since you spoke of the Dixieland's demise, part of the reason it came off in '57 was it had a wreck at Guthrie that summer. I know, as I was on the Memphis Pan the day of the wreck. The Memphis branch crossed the Henderson Div, mainline at Guthrie. The daily freight on the Memphis line lost his brakes as he was preparing to stop on the siding just before the crossing.

Since he could not stop, he drifted into the Dixieland, which was moving at regular speed through the crossing, and struck the dining car.

I believe 6 of the dining car staff were killed - thankfully it was between meal times- as well as the head end crew on the freight. My train was behind the freight and we pulled into Guthrie on the main, beside the freight an hour or so after it happened. Quite an experience for a 12 year old. Fortunately my grandmother with the help of the Clarksville ticket agent, P.O. Bledsoe, retrieved me from the train. It was some sight as we walked through the wreckage.

Palmland, what a memory, seeing a wreck just afer it hiappend. Glad your grandmother took care of you, and glad it did not scare you away from future train rides.

I do remember the wreck, I remember calling the station to see what time the remains of the train would come in (the wreck was in the Sunday morning newspaper. It was due about 8 or 9 a.m. the following morning, that for a 10 pm. train...sort of like today's Sunset!!

One blessing--good it was the freight whcih ran iinto the Dixieland rather than the Memphis Pan.could have been so many more casualties.

 

[MichiganFoamer]

They were sold separately. It was also the custom in the 30's - 50's that if a lady had only purchased an upper and a gentleman a lower, common courtesy would have him give her the lower and he would take the upper, even though she had paid less for the upper. Those were the good old days!!

Haven't you guys ever heard the song "Alabamy Bound?".

"Just gave the meanest ticket man on earth,

all I'm worth,

just to stick my footsies in an upper berth!"

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[MrFSS]

They were sold separately. It was also the custom in the 30's - 50's that if a lady had only purchased an upper and a gentleman a lower, common courtesy would have him give her the lower and he would take the upper, even though she had paid less for the upper. Those were the good old days!!

Haven't you guys ever heard the song "Alabamy Bound?".

"Just gave the meanest ticket man on earth,

all I'm worth,

just to stick my footsies in an upper berth!"

:lol: :lol: :lol:

What's an Alabamy??

 

[Sam Damon]

The whole bit on sections has me a bit fascinated. From what I understand, Amtrak in its early days actually *did* have a tariff for sections; but the cars were few and far between.

My question, since we seem to be getting into the dog days of summer is, might sections work today if sold and billed as "tourist sleepers"? That is, designed and sold with the expectation of knocking off a bit off the roomette price in exchange for the (relative) lack of privacy?

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

The whole bit on sections has me a bit fascinated. From what I understand, Amtrak in its early days actually *did* have a tariff for sections; but the cars were few and far between.
My question, since we seem to be getting into the dog days of summer is, might sections work today if sold and billed as "tourist sleepers"? That is, designed and sold with the expectation of knocking off a bit off the roomette price in exchange for the (relative) lack of privacy?

It maybe that you are confusing what you have heard about sections with slumbercoaches.

I think jphjaxfl (some of the above posts) was right when he said Amtrak did not accept any sleepers with sections.

But they did accept some slumbercoaches. But the railroads themselves never had many slumbercoaches.

Slumbercoaches were cars with single rooms and double rooms, which gave real menaing to the phrase "broom closet". The big selling point was that they had broom closet prices. They did have toilets and wash basins.

They are no longer in service. But back to sections, whether Amtrak printed a tariff for them,not even exisitng, not sure they would buy some later? Maybe they were not sure they were gone for good.

 

[Sam Damon]

No, Bill, I'm not confusing Slumbercoaches with sections at all. As you indicated, the Slumbercoaches were broom closets, but they did have their own toilets and were sold at a vastly reduced price compared to a roomette.

I remember reading on another reflector where someone actually knew about the Amtrak tariff for a section, and on a car that happened to have one (I think it was a maintenance deal) back in the mid-1970s or so, he persuaded the conductor to sell him a section.

 

[jphjaxfl]

I think some of the exNew York Central slumbercoaches that Amtrak inherited from Penn Central may have been rebuilt from section sleepers...also the Seaboard Coastline slumbercoaches, I think were purchased from the B&O and could have been rebuilds. The CB&Q and NP slumbercoahes were built as slumbercoaches and were the newest sleepers built prior to Amtrak. Some of the crew cars used by Amtrak before HEP may have had sections. Many of sleepers Amtrak inherited from the railroads had not been maintained very well so Amtrak was scrambling to find equipment that functioned (Sound familiar?)

 

[MichiganFoamer]

If Amtrak could offer a slumbercoach-type accomodation that was priced slightly more than a coach seat and considerably less than a roomette, I would probably ride the LDs a LOT more often than I currently do. I always have been a bit put off by their "everything or nothing" approach when It comes to accomodations. :glare:

 

[printman2000]

If Amtrak could offer a slumbercoach-type accomodation that was priced slightly more than a coach seat and considerably less than a roomette, I would probably ride the LDs a LOT more often than I currently do. I always have been a bit put off by their "everything or nothing" approach when It comes to accomodations. :glare:

Then you run into the problem of do you offer meals with the slumbercoach. I would say no to keep the price down.

 

[haolerider]

To the best of my knowledge, which is certainly limited, there are no plans for new sleepers. This post was originally started several years ago and although I am sure most of you are aware of that, I don't want to get the hopes up of those who aren't.

 

[Guest_palmland_*]

I think some of the exNew York Central slumbercoaches that Amtrak inherited from Penn Central may have been rebuilt from section sleepers...also the Seaboard Coastline slumbercoaches, I think were purchased from the B&O and could have been rebuilds. The CB&Q and NP slumbercoahes were built as slumbercoaches and were the newest sleepers built prior to Amtrak. Some of the crew cars used by Amtrak before HEP may have had sections. Many of sleepers Amtrak inherited from the railroads had not been maintained very well so Amtrak was scrambling to find equipment that functioned (Sound familiar?)

According to the second edition of the Amtrak Car Spotter guide in 1973, there were sleepers with sections in service on Amtrak. However they were designated as dormitory space in that year. That implies they were used for revenue service prior to that (1971-1972) but I can find no listing for them in Amtrak timetables for those two years.

The Dormitory-sleepers included:

3 cars from SCL with 4sec-4rmte-1cpt-5dbr

6 cars from CB&Q/BN with 6sec-6rmt-4dbr

Slumbercoaches included

15 cars built new as slumbercoaches from the CB&Q/NP and used on the Empire Builder

7 cars built as 21 rmt for NYC who rebuilt them as slumbercoaches

Budget Sleepers

8 cars built for the B&O with 16 duplex rmts-4DBR. The SCL bought these from the B&O and used them in Florida service as budget sleepers. A practice that Amtrak continued. In B&O days, they were regular roomettes with all the features of a regular roomette except a bit smaller and staggered configuration. If I remember, the lower roomette beds slid under the upper roomette. Neat setup and allowed 2 extra roomettes over a standard 14rmte-4DBR car.

So it sounds like, if you wanted a true section in Amtrak, you had to figure out a way to use one desingated for the crew dorm space.

And yes, Amtrak should take the viewliners that are aging, gut them and make high density sleepers as well as diner/lounges. Then build new first class sleepers using the viewliner mold but with better construction and new technology. Just a small matter of money.

 

[Sam Damon]

Found what I was looking for in the All-Aboard message archives, in a message from January 2006. Gene Poon writes:

In Fall 1979, I was ticketed ALB-CHI on the Lake Shore Limited in a Single Slumbercoach room. Unfortunately, on that day the Slumbercoach was bad-ordered for air conditioning (STATE OF GOOD REPAIR) and passengers on the train out of New York's Grand Central Terminal were protected in the regular Sleeping Cars. By the time the train reached Albany there were no Sleeper rooms left that were not occupied or already reserved downline.
The Lounge car on this train was a Lounge/Sleeper with four sections. I think it was ex-BN. The sections were made up for occupancy and those who had Slumbercoach reservations were reaccommodated in lower berths. At least two passengers, possibly more, had Coach reservations but wanted to upgrade to some sort of sleeper space; the agent knew that Upper/Lower Berth tariffs actually existed, and sold them space from remaining inventory, which by then was all upper berths. One of them was Fred Frailey, a professional news writer who has also authored railroad books, the most apropos for this group being "Twilight of the Great Trains," published by Kalmbach.

 

[MichiganFoamer]

Then you run into the problem of do you offer meals with the slumbercoach. I would say no to keep the price down.

I agree.

 

[MichiganFoamer]

To the best of my knowledge, which is certainly limited, there are no plans for new sleepers. This post was originally started several years ago and although I am sure most of you are aware of that, I don't want to get the hopes up of those who aren't.

Yeah, I caught the "2004" date on the original post. Don't worry, I don't believe anything anymore until I sees it with me own eyes.

 

[RailFanNebraska]

I do feel that amtrak should add some of the "economy plus" sleepers that VIA rail uses. They could be placed in this format >>>

Engine, Engine, Baggage, 3 to 4 Coaches, Lounge, Diner, Economy Plus sleeper (2), First Class Sleeper. Crew Dorm.