New Southern Belle

[jiml]

With the Kansas City Southern merger announced today, is there potential, market for or interest in a revival of the Southern Belle route between KC and New Orleans?

 

[jis]

With the Kansas City Southern merger announced today, is there potential, market for or interest in a revival of the Southern Belle route between KC and New Orleans?

Not in any current proposals or plans AFAIK.

 

[MikefromCrete]

Why would you think a merger between two large freight carriers would pave the way for a new LD train? Certainly CP and KCS aren't thinking about it.

 

[railiner]

A think that a lot of other routes are more likely to have a 'revival' of service before that one does. More likely the ones that once were operated by Amtrak, and were cut. Or ones that lasted at least until Amtrak began. That one ended a year and a half prior....

 

[jiml]

Why would you think a merger between two large freight carriers would pave the way for a new LD train? Certainly CP and KCS aren't thinking about it.

It was just a discussion suggestion. In the current structure KCS wasn't ever required to run any train for Amtrak, but they have a good working relationship with CP. With the recent refocus on southeastern services and a "hub" at New Orleans, the Southern Belle might be a fit in the larger picture.

 

[Cal]

Why would you think a merger between two large freight carriers would pave the way for a new LD train? Certainly CP and KCS aren't thinking about it.

No, not enough equipment for a new route. But we can of course dream

 

[Palmetto]

No, not enough equipment for a new route. But we can of course dream

We do a lot of that here on occasion.

 

[Cal]

We do a lot of that here on occasion.

That's why I said it

 

[Anthony V]

While I don't believe the entire former Southern Belle route will return to hosting passenger trains anytime soon, I do believe there is demand for passenger train service along the most densely-populated portion of the route - the route between New Orleans and Shreveport, LA, which includes Baton Rouge and Alexandria. This could be done as an extension of the proposed NOL - BTR train to Shreveport, where it could connect with a new DFW section of the Crescent, once proposed as the Crescent Star in the early 2000's. This would create a mini rail transport hub in Shreveport, while opening up new markets to passenger train travel.

 

[Eric S]

Yeah, I agree with that. Service south of Shreveport to New Orleans seems much likelier than north of Shreveport to Kansas City. Not that I'm holding my breath waiting for New Orleans - Shreveport trains to start running. I know there are advocates pushing for New Orleans - Baton Rouge service, I think over the KCS line.

 

[TheCrescent]

Doesn't Canadian Pacific run at least one passenger train on its own- the Royal Canadian Pacific or something? (A high-dollar excursion train.)

I see Class Is with stables of antique passenger cars, and near-zero visibility to the general public. I don't understand why Class Is don't run more excursion trains, at least for advertising, which should be positive. Maybe CP will run its own high-dollar excursion train, or some other excursion train, along KCS lines.

And doesn't "Canadian Pacific Kansas City" sound funny? This is a corporate name just itching for its last part to be dropped, like some companies with unwieldy names do. "Canadian Kansas Pacific" is kind of long but at least smoother.

 

[jis]

And doesn't "Canadian Pacific Kansas City" sound funny? This is a corporate name just itching for its last part to be dropped, like some companies with unwieldy names do. "Canadian Kansas Pacific" is kind of long but at least smoother.

I suspect they will change their official name to CPKC or even CPKX soon enough, like is fashionable among railroads these days.

 

[Cal]

And doesn't "Canadian Pacific Kansas City" sound funny? This is a corporate name just itching for its last part to be dropped, like some companies with unwieldy names do. "Canadian Kansas Pacific" is kind of long but at least smoother.

It does sound bad, I agree

 

[jiml]

Doesn't Canadian Pacific run at least one passenger train on its own- the Royal Canadian Pacific or something? (A high-dollar excursion train.)

I see Class Is with stables of antique passenger cars, and near-zero visibility to the general public. I don't understand why Class Is don't run more excursion trains, at least for advertising, which should be positive. Maybe CP will run its own high-dollar excursion train, or some other excursion train, along KCS lines.

In addition to the RCP you've mentioned, KCS has a really nice-looking business/passenger consist of their own. I posted a pic in the thread devoted to the acquisition.

 

[jiml]

It does sound bad, I agree

And Burlington Northern Santa Fe doesn't?

 

[jis]

And Burlington Northern Santa Fe doesn't?

But who spells it all the way out anymore? It is mostly BNSF.

 

[jiml]

But who spells it all the way out anymore? It is mostly BNSF.

Which is why I agreed with your post that basically said to expect the same with CPKC or whatever the final choice is.

 

[Cal]

And Burlington Northern Santa Fe doesn't?

Sounds better. It's always been that for me, so that's the normal.

 

[TrackWalker]

Burlington Northern Santa Fe went the same way as Kentucky Fried Chicken and became BNSF (or Bien SF to some) in about 2005. Personally, I always thought was simply to save paint.

 

[jiml]

(or Bien SF to some)

Ah, the French translation.

 

[MisterUptempo]

Just spitballin' here, but as far as what the combined CP/KCS might mean for passenger rail, I am wondering whether the merger might benefit Hiawatha/Empire Builder/CHI-MSP route. I refer to this paragraph from CP regarding the acquisition-

CP and KCS interchange and operate an existing shared facility in Kansas City, Mo., which is the one point where they connect. This transaction will alleviate the need for a time consuming and expensive interchange, improving efficiency and reducing transit times and costs. The combination also will allow some traffic between KCS-served points and the Upper Midwest and Western Canada to bypass Chicago via the CP route through Iowa. This will improve service and has the potential to contribute to the reduction of rail traffic, fuel burn, and emissions in Chicago, an important hub city.

Bypassing Chicago by running through Iowa should free up some slots between Glenview and LaCrosse or so, no? An alternative future alignment for CHI-MSP envisioned LaCrosse to Rochester to MSP, which would get around any increased freight traffic on the current CP LaCrosse-MSP routing that might be utilized to bypass Chicago.


A full-size image is available at this link.

Also, haven't people here discussed a Northeast Seaboard to Dallas route? What about a train running along the current Crescent route then turn onto CP/KCS at Meridian to Shreveport to Dallas? Would CP be amenable to granting that? Could it be a condition for merger approval?

Like I said, just spitballin'.

 

[Willbridge]

Regarding KCS passenger service, I agree that the lines around Shreveport are interesting. It's my impression that the KCS did as well as it did with passengers was due to offering friendly service. The UP in Portland liked sending passengers through their Kansas City connections because of the favorable comments, especially from people who had previously tried the SP.

 

[jiml]

Regarding KCS passenger service, I agree that the lines around Shreveport are interesting. It's my impression that the KCS did as well as it did with passengers was due to offering friendly service. The UP in Portland liked sending passengers through their Kansas City connections because of the favorable comments, especially from people who had previously tried the SP.

By fluke they had some of the newest equipment of the Class 1's, simply because they were the last to do a major fleet upgrade. Their Pullman cars dated from the mid-60's, while similar cars on other roads were 10-15 years older.

 

[Seaboard92]

Doesn't Canadian Pacific run at least one passenger train on its own- the Royal Canadian Pacific or something? (A high-dollar excursion train.)

I see Class Is with stables of antique passenger cars, and near-zero visibility to the general public. I don't understand why Class Is don't run more excursion trains, at least for advertising, which should be positive. Maybe CP will run its own high-dollar excursion train, or some other excursion train, along KCS lines.

And doesn't "Canadian Pacific Kansas City" sound funny? This is a corporate name just itching for its last part to be dropped, like some companies with unwieldy names do. "Canadian Kansas Pacific" is kind of long but at least smoother.

Wherever you would like to ride the Royal Canadian Pacific they are happy to accommodate you if you have the money. If you want the price you can reach out to me, I was on the travel agent FAM trip they did in 2019 and I remember the rates they quoted for charters. But I'm not posting that publicly. But they can and will take their train on off network routes provided the other railroad approves, and the CP CEO approves.

By fluke they had some of the newest equipment of the Class 1's, simply because they were the last to do a major fleet upgrade. Their Pullman cars dated from the mid-60's, while similar cars on other roads were 10-15 years older.

And most of those cars are still active on North Carolina's Piedmont. The last private railroad Pullman order.

 

[Hytec]

When CN purchased IC, the initial logo was CN/IC or CNIC. But that didn't last long. The logo on locomotives, new rolling stock, and correspondence is now merely CN.