New Sunset Limited/Texas Eagle Timetables

[frequentflyer]

Maybe the TE/SL connection needs to be broken. With two less cars the SL will be able to go one locomotive unit to improve its bottom line going through the mountains in Texas. Instead extend the HL past OKC to connect with the SWC in Newton. That train needs more pax numbers to help the bottom line plus its daily.

 

[frequentflyer]

I've made new Sunset Limited/Texas Eagle Timetables.

Major changes include:

- Adds daytime service to San Antonio, TX; Little Rock, AR; Yuma, AZ; Palm Springs CA!

- Daytime service to scenic Arkansas and Missouri

- Approximate twelve hour shift in the schedules, with a bunch of tweaking (i.e. 1-2 hour layovers)

- Connections to other trains at Chicago and Los Angeles are retained

- Overnight between Fort Worth & Austin with long layover in Fort Worth... boarding times should be around 12am westbound, 6am eastbound

Possible problems:

- Barely less than 8 hours turnaround at New Orleans.. a couple other trains do this as well, however (Empire Builder, Cardinal/Hoosier State)

- Long layovers might cause problems, but not sure what exactly, if it does... it will increase travel times by a couple hours

- Metropolitan Lounge might close before #21 boards in Chicago just before 11pm.. might need to keep it open a couple more hours

- El Paso, TX; Houston, TX; Fort Worth, TX; St. Louis, MO; Lake Charles, LA boarding times are quite early/late in the day

Overall, I tried to solve the San Antonio problem, while retaining connections at endpoints, and not putting too many other cities in the dark.

I like it.

 

[cpotisch]

Maybe the TE/SL connection needs to be broken. With two less cars the SL will be able to go one locomotive unit to improve its bottom line going through the mountains in Texas. Instead extend the HL past OKC to connect with the SWC in Newton. That train needs more pax numbers to help the bottom line plus its daily.

There are a surprising number of through passengers on the Sunset/Eagle. There's a reason that the proposed plan for daily CHI-LAX service (via SAS) has the Sunset Limited become a connecting stub train, with the main train being the Eagle. I don't know the economics of one locomotive vs two locomotives, but I feel like cutting out that market, especially with the (current) overnight in SAS, wouldn't work out.

 

[Lonestar648]

I thought about doing a trip to LA this summer doing the sleeper through SAS and back. I found that 421/422 were almost sold out or sold out in the sleepers and even the coach seating was limited. What this says is that connecting through SAS 421/422 must have 30-40 in the sleeper, and 60 - 70 in coach per train this summer. That is a lot of through passengers to eliminate the market.

 

[frequentflyer]

I thought about doing a trip to LA this summer doing the sleeper through SAS and back. I found that 421/422 were almost sold out or sold out in the sleepers and even the coach seating was limited. What this says is that connecting through SAS 421/422 must have 30-40 in the sleeper, and 60 - 70 in coach per train this summer. That is a lot of through passengers to eliminate the market.

Keep it mind, its three days a week.

 

[Lonestar648]

With that volume three days a week, going 7 days would increase the number even more. Maybe you wouldn't sell out quite as much, but the numbers would certainly increase. If the UP would a allow a daily TE to/.from LA, the current numbers seem to show the number of passengers would definitely increase. Make the TE daily with the SL the connector three times a week.

 

[frequentflyer]

With that volume three days a week, going 7 days would increase the number even more. Maybe you wouldn't sell out quite as much, but the numbers would certainly increase. If the UP would a allow a daily TE to/.from LA, the current numbers seem to show the number of passengers would definitely increase. Make the TE daily with the SL the connector three times a week.

The preferable route would be to make the SL section daily but UP has made that impossible with unreasonable demands. Next best option is a daily connection with the SWC.

 

[Lonestar648]

Making the TE daily to LA years ago, UP wanted an outrageous amount of money. UP has killed other rail expansions Amtrak and Commuter.

 

[Anderson]

IIRC the Daily Sunset was shot in the foot by someone who was too clever by half at Amtrak. UP has generally been willing to work with Amtrak (as has BNSF, for that matter; there are some exceptions, but IIRC almost every Class I has at least one or two locations that are "at issue"); witness the Capitol Corridor in particular.

 

[DevalDragon]

That's pretty useless for anybody that lives in Illinois or Central Texas!

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

That's pretty useless for anybody that lives in Illinois or Central Texas!

.It'll be useless for someone. Right now, that's a lot of Arkansas and southern MO, San Antonio, and eastern CA/western AZ.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

IIRC the Daily Sunset was shot in the foot by someone who was too clever by half at Amtrak.

Even all these years later that unsubstantiated rumor still has zero evidence to back it up.

 

[cpotisch]

Can someone remind me: Did the Sunset East follow the Silvers' route south of Jacksonville (serving Miami, Hollywood, etc), or did it just cut straight across to Jacksonville and that was it? Thanks.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Can someone remind me: Did the Sunset East follow the Silvers' route south of Jacksonville (serving Miami, Hollywood, etc), or did it just cut straight across to Jacksonville and that was it? Thanks.

Originally it served Miami but later on it was truncated to Orlando.

First (1993): http://timetables.org/full.php?group=19930502n&item=0030

Last (2005): http://timetables.org/full.php?group=20050425&item=0099

 

[cpotisch]

Can someone remind me: Did the Sunset East follow the Silvers' route south of Jacksonville (serving Miami, Hollywood, etc), or did it just cut straight across to Jacksonville and that was it? Thanks.

Originally it served Miami but later on it was truncated to Orlando.

First (1993): http://timetables.org/full.php?group=19930502n&item=0030

Last (2005): http://timetables.org/full.php?group=20050425&item=0099

Thanks a lot. So initially the train went all the way to Miami (via Orlando), following the exact same route ORL-MIA as the Silvers. Later on they changed it so that it just terminated in ORL.

 

[ehbowen]

Can someone remind me: Did the Sunset East follow the Silvers' route south of Jacksonville (serving Miami, Hollywood, etc), or did it just cut straight across to Jacksonville and that was it? Thanks.

Originally it served Miami but later on it was truncated to Orlando.

First (1993): http://timetables.org/full.php?group=19930502n&item=0030

Last (2005): http://timetables.org/full.php?group=20050425&item=0099

Thanks a lot. So initially the train went all the way to Miami (via Jacksonville), following the exact same route JAX-MIA as the Silvers. Later on they changed it so that it just terminated in JAX.

No, it went to Orlando. Jacksonville had/has no facilities for turning, servicing, maintaining, and restocking a train. Miami does. So does Sanford (Auto Train), which can be reached by a relatively short backup move from the Orlando station. So the Sunset Limited, after the truncation, terminated in Orlando and then was taken to/from Sanford for cleaning and servicing.

 

[cpotisch]

Can someone remind me: Did the Sunset East follow the Silvers' route south of Jacksonville (serving Miami, Hollywood, etc), or did it just cut straight across to Jacksonville and that was it? Thanks.

Originally it served Miami but later on it was truncated to Orlando.

First (1993): http://timetables.org/full.php?group=19930502n&item=0030

Last (2005): http://timetables.org/full.php?group=20050425&item=0099

Thanks a lot. So initially the train went all the way to Miami (via Jacksonville), following the exact same route JAX-MIA as the Silvers. Later on they changed it so that it just terminated in JAX.

No, it went to Orlando. Jacksonville had/has no facilities for turning, servicing, maintaining, and restocking a train. Miami does. So does Sanford (Auto Train), which can be reached by a relatively short backup move from the Orlando station. So the Sunset Limited, after the truncation, terminated in Orlando and then was taken to/from Sanford for cleaning and servicing.

Sorry. That's what I meant.

 

[jis]

No, it went to Orlando. Jacksonville had/has no facilities for turning, servicing, maintaining, and restocking a train. Miami does. So does Sanford (Auto Train), which can be reached by a relatively short backup move from the Orlando station. So the Sunset Limited, after the truncation, terminated in Orlando and then was taken to/from Sanford for cleaning and servicing.

Minor nit. A "long distance" day train - the Palmetto (NYP-JAX) - for a period did terminate at JAX and was turned there, sort of like it does in SAV now. However, it is true that an overnight LD train would be hard to turn at JAX on a regular basis.

 

[Cal]

No, it went to Orlando. Jacksonville had/has no facilities for turning, servicing, maintaining, and restocking a train. Miami does. So does Sanford (Auto Train), which can be reached by a relatively short backup move from the Orlando station. So the Sunset Limited, after the truncation, terminated in Orlando and then was taken to/from Sanford for cleaning and servicing.

Why was the Sunset reduced from Miami to Orlando?

 

[Bob Dylan]

Why was the Sunset reduced from Miami to Orlando?

Because it was often 24+ Hours Late and was a Money pit for Amtrak, with not many riders South of Orlando.

 

[Cal]

Because it was often 24+ Hours Late and was a Money pit for Amtrak, with not many riders South of Orlando.

Thank you! I also wondered why.