New Viewliners

[jis]

And what about windows ???

Structurally I believe the window openings are there in the frame. However, if converting from baggage to passenger they will need to change out the paneling along the window strip to open up those spaces and install actual windows. So it will be a bit more than just sliding in the modules.

And I think the FRA would get involved in structural changes to an existing piece of rolling stock....

The point is that it would not be a structural change because the metal that is removed is not load bearing.

 

[afigg]

And I think the FRA would get involved in structural changes to an existing piece of rolling stock....

The point is that it would not be a structural change because the metal that is removed is not load bearing.

Amtrak is converting 20 Amfleet I café cars to coach cars. To do that, they are removing the punch out panels and inserting windows in the mid-section where the café service area was. Doubt if they are getting the FRA involved for structural testing. Makes a difference if the car was designed for the windows to be swappable with steel panels.

 

[user 1215]

By definition, are Viewliners a deck and a half? I just think there is no value in a Viewliner diner and baggage as they don't need the extra headroom. I just think the consists will look even sillier with Viewliner size baggage and diners trailed by three Amcans.

Actually, I see value in a baggage/dorm Viewliner. I've seen the diner concepts and an not real impressed why they need a Viewliner shell.

 

[MattW]

By definition, are Viewliners a deck and a half? I just think there is no value in a Viewliner diner and baggage as they don't need the extra headroom. I just think the consists will look even sillier with Viewliner size baggage and diners trailed by three Amcans.

Actually, I see value in a baggage/dorm Viewliner. I've seen the diner concepts and an not real impressed why they need a Viewliner shell.

Actually, I don't think the Viewliners are that much taller than their Heritage predecessors, there's this image: http://www.hebners.net/amtrak/amtVIEW/amt2300f.jpg and this image: http://jeffstrainsite.com/railfan_pics/Passenger_Rail/amtrak/sleepers/amt_viewliner-sleeper_62005.jpg and they don't really look much taller than the Heritage equipment.

 

[afigg]

By definition, are Viewliners a deck and a half? I just think there is no value in a Viewliner diner and baggage as they don't need the extra headroom. I just think the consists will look even sillier with Viewliner size baggage and diners trailed by three Amcans.

Actually, I see value in a baggage/dorm Viewliner. I've seen the diner concepts and an not real impressed why they need a Viewliner shell.

The Viewliner Is are not that much taller than the Heritage diners from what I have noticed. It is the Amcans that are and look smaller. Any extra headroom space in a Viewliner 2 diner may provide additional storage space for the kitchen and food prep area. Useful if it can provide room to pack more food and supplies on board.

As for the Amfleet cars, in the recent Fleet Strategy Plan V2, Amtrak is looking to replace the Amfleet 2s ahead of the Amfleet 1s because of the high mileage on the 2s. Wonder what chances CAF would have in landing a LD passenger car order?

 

[AlanB]

Any extra headroom space in a Viewliner 2 diner may provide additional storage space for the kitchen and food prep area. Useful if it can provide room to pack more food and supplies on board.

It will also make the dining cars more airy & brighter during the day with the second row of windows.

As for the Amfleet cars, in the recent Fleet Strategy Plan V2, Amtrak is looking to replace the Amfleet 2s ahead of the Amfleet 1s because of the high mileage on the 2s. Wonder what chances CAF would have in landing a LD passenger car order?

Hopefully they'll base the design on the Viewliner shell. Amtrak does have plans for a Viewliner coach.

 

[had8ley]

And I think the FRA would get involved in structural changes to an existing piece of rolling stock....

The point is that it would not be a structural change because the metal that is removed is not load bearing.

Amtrak is converting 20 Amfleet I café cars to coach cars. To do that, they are removing the punch out panels and inserting windows in the mid-section where the café service area was. Doubt if they are getting the FRA involved for structural testing. Makes a difference if the car was designed for the windows to be swappable with steel panels.

Not having seen the plans for the full bags I can't really make a realistic judgment (#1 question would be; is there a place to put windows without cutting the structural integrity of the car?) but the next time you ride any Amtrak piece of equipment, locomotives included, look at the embossment at the bottom of the window "FRA TYPE"

I have a CFR (Code of Federal Regs) but it is bigger than the Manhattan phone book and I don't have time to find the specific section on car integrity but do know it exists. Amtrak answers to the FRA and cannot go around cutting up or modifying cars without consulting at least the CFR which is the FRA's bible. In other words Amtrak can't go around modifying cars without conforming to FRA regs or they will have some inquizative visitors from the FRA.

 

[PerRock]

wouldn't the baggage cars also have big baggage doors in the middle that they would have to work around if they wanted to convert them?

peter

 

[jis]

wouldn't the baggage cars also have big baggage doors in the middle that they would have to work around if they wanted to convert them?

Viewliners have a plug section in the middle which can be used for installing a baggage door or a regular panel.

As for structural integrity.... of course Amtrak or anyone else has to follow the CFRs. No one is denying that. The question is how much it costs to make the mods compliant with the CFR. The Viewliner design reduces the cost of making modifications in compliance with CFRs. So I am not sure there is any huge disagreement regarding CFRs, unless we want to have a disagreement for disagreement's sake that is

 

[MattW]

Maybe every Viewliner will use the same shell with windows and we'll just have windowed baggage cars running around?

 

[printman2000]

Maybe every Viewliner will use the same shell with windows and we'll just have windowed baggage cars running around?

No. They are not gonna pay for all that glass if they don't have to.

 

[afigg]

Maybe every Viewliner will use the same shell with windows and we'll just have windowed baggage cars running around?

No. They are not gonna pay for all that glass if they don't have to.

That goes for the maintenance and periodic replacement of the windows as well, not just the cost of the initial install. Windows get broken, scratched, have rocks thrown at them. Since the baggage does not need a view, no reason to have a full set of big windows in the baggage car.

It would be interesting to see some drawings or sketches of what the new Viewliner 2s will look like, but with delivery of the first unit not expected until October, 2012, no need for Amtrak to publish any until then.

 

[dlagrua]

We rode the Crescent to New Orleans this past Monday/Tuesday and will be on the #20 train Sunday morning. We were in bedroom B and both the room and the diner looked to be in need of repair. Viewliner II equipment is badly needed. The rugs the mattresses and the furnishings were very worn, probably the result of hard NYC service. The crew was very nice and accomodating. Our waiters name was George and it was ironic that we had to call him "oh George".

 

[AlanB]

And I think the FRA would get involved in structural changes to an existing piece of rolling stock....

The point is that it would not be a structural change because the metal that is removed is not load bearing.

Amtrak is converting 20 Amfleet I café cars to coach cars. To do that, they are removing the punch out panels and inserting windows in the mid-section where the café service area was. Doubt if they are getting the FRA involved for structural testing. Makes a difference if the car was designed for the windows to be swappable with steel panels.

Not having seen the plans for the full bags I can't really make a realistic judgment (#1 question would be; is there a place to put windows without cutting the structural integrity of the car?) but the next time you ride any Amtrak piece of equipment, locomotives included, look at the embossment at the bottom of the window "FRA TYPE"

I have a CFR (Code of Federal Regs) but it is bigger than the Manhattan phone book and I don't have time to find the specific section on car integrity but do know it exists. Amtrak answers to the FRA and cannot go around cutting up or modifying cars without consulting at least the CFR which is the FRA's bible. In other words Amtrak can't go around modifying cars without conforming to FRA regs or they will have some inquizative visitors from the FRA.

Jay,

The baggage cars will be using the same basic Viewliner shell. That means that every cutout for a window will still be in the shell. In fact, as the shells roll off the assembly line anyone working it will not know if that particular shell is going to be a full bag, a bag/dorm, or a sleeper. The only shells that will be slightly different are the dining cars, which will have loading doors/emergency exits on both sides in middle of the car right at the end of the kitchen and the start of the seating area.

In the full bags, instead of installing glass in the window cutouts, they'll just install a metal slug or plate. Removing that plate at some future point would not affect the strutural integrity of the car. Heck even in the dorm/bags on the baggage end most of the window cutouts will be slugs instead of glass.

 

[user 1215]

How many crew need to have a roomette on any given Viewliner consist?

 

[Ryan]

Roughly:

2 cooks

3 dining car servers

1 cafe attendant

1 sleeping car attendant (1 per car)

Do the coach attendants get a room for their off time or do they have to stay in the coach?

 

[AlanB]

The sleeping car attendant's room is already accounted for, as in it was never intended to be a revenue room. And coach attendants are indeed guaranteed a room to sleep in, they don't spend the night in coach.

So depending on the train, you could have:

1 to 2 cooks

1 to 3 SA's for the dining car

2 LSA's (1 dining, 1 cafe)

2 to 3 coach attendants

 

[had8ley]

And I think the FRA would get involved in structural changes to an existing piece of rolling stock....

The point is that it would not be a structural change because the metal that is removed is not load bearing.

Amtrak is converting 20 Amfleet I café cars to coach cars. To do that, they are removing the punch out panels and inserting windows in the mid-section where the café service area was. Doubt if they are getting the FRA involved for structural testing. Makes a difference if the car was designed for the windows to be swappable with steel panels.

Not having seen the plans for the full bags I can't really make a realistic judgment (#1 question would be; is there a place to put windows without cutting the structural integrity of the car?) but the next time you ride any Amtrak piece of equipment, locomotives included, look at the embossment at the bottom of the window "FRA TYPE"

I have a CFR (Code of Federal Regs) but it is bigger than the Manhattan phone book and I don't have time to find the specific section on car integrity but do know it exists. Amtrak answers to the FRA and cannot go around cutting up or modifying cars without consulting at least the CFR which is the FRA's bible. In other words Amtrak can't go around modifying cars without conforming to FRA regs or they will have some inquizative visitors from the FRA.

Jay,

The baggage cars will be using the same basic Viewliner shell. That means that every cutout for a window will still be in the shell. In fact, as the shells roll off the assembly line anyone working it will not know if that particular shell is going to be a full bag, a bag/dorm, or a sleeper. The only shells that will be slightly different are the dining cars, which will have loading doors/emergency exits on both sides in middle of the car right at the end of the kitchen and the start of the seating area.

In the full bags, instead of installing glass in the window cutouts, they'll just install a metal slug or plate. Removing that plate at some future point would not affect the strutural integrity of the car. Heck even in the dorm/bags on the baggage end most of the window cutouts will be slugs instead of glass.

The answer to my prayers...I was hoping it would turn out that way....