NJ Transit to restore Atlantic City Line & Dinky 5/12/19.

[jis]

I am neither pessimistic, nor optimistic. I am just stating the current situation. Unless NJT gets around to ordering appropriate new equipment or decides to retain a few Arrow IIIs, or decides to for example, lease a couple of Silverliners from SEPTA, there currently is nothing in the plans to keep the Dinky running after the Arrow IIIs are retired.

 

[cpotisch]

I am neither pessimistic, nor optimistic. I am just stating the current situation. Unless NJT gets around to ordering appropriate new equipment or decides to retain a few Arrow IIIs, or decides to for example, lease a couple of Silverliners from SEPTA, there currently is nothing in the plans to keep the Dinky running after the Arrow IIIs are retired.

Would it be the end of the world to just put a few three-car MultiLevel sets (one power car and two cab cars each) on the Dinky? I get that that's around twice the capacity of a current two-car Arrow III set, which is quite unnecessary, but if there really is so much political support of the Dinky, is too much capacity really that much of an issue?

 

[jis]

Multi-levels are too heavy for at least one (maybe more) of the bridges on that branch. I think this has been posted by me more than once on AU, but for those that have not seen those, here goes again. ^_^ . So it will need some significant upgrade of the trackage in places before that can be done.

Besides, at present political support is pretty thin. There has not been enough political support to prevent the line from getting repeatedly cut shorter and shorter to get it far and away from downtown, and also there was not enough support to prevent the otherwise unnecessary cessation of service, all for the want of two sets of operating crew a day. The line running a single train up and down running at 35-45 mph does not require PTC since the train cannot really collide with itself. So that was mostly bollocks.

 

[neroden]

The political dynamic is that the former borough wants it , the former township didn't care, the students demand it, the professors want it, the university administration is mildly hostile... and every year, support in each group increases as demographics get younger and traffic gets worse.  The professors have the ability to cause *trouble* for NJT since they know how to deploy lawsuits and media.  Getting an expansion of the Dinky requires shifting the balance in the former township and turning the administration from hostile to neutral.  Cancelling it permanently will get whoever does it in personal legal trouble for the rest of his life (if appointed) or will kill his political career (if elected), and I think they mostly know that.

This is why they are resorting to sneaky nonsense like "suspensions".  I don't think they'll get away with that either, given that they're being actively pressured already.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

NJT and NJ DOT meeting scheduled for tonight (February 19) at 6:00 p.m. at the Dinky station in Princeton. First in a series of meetings around the state, so a later meeting probably will be about the Atlantic City line.

https://planetprinceton.com/2019/02/18/njdot-and-nj-transit-to-host-public-forum-about-dinky-train-service-tuesday/

 

[jis]

Let’s see what new lies they come up with this time.

 

[Acela150]

Let’s see what new lies they come up with this time.

You taking bets? :lol:  

 

[Thirdrail7]

This first of many public drubbings.

https://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/frustration-and-flaring-tempers-at-nj-transit-meeting/article_fd235008-a2da-53c8-8c1b-3bf6bdf326e5.html

We would like to have given you a date certain today,” said Executive Director Kevin Corbett, but he could only continue to say sometime in the second quarter, which ends with June.
“I can say June 15 — I’m 100 percent covered with June 15 or June 30,” said Corbett, adding it could be sooner. “We want to open this as soon as possible.”


When someone asked what the backup plan is if the train isn’t restored in time for August’s Atlantic City Airshow, when hundreds of thousands of people come to town, Corbett said he would lose his job if the train isn’t restored by then.
“I would fire me,” he said.

Let's hold him to it!!

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

And an update on the Dinky meeting--NJT says Dinky will return by June 30 and there is no sinister plot to get rid of it forever.

I know appearance doesn't mean anything anymore, but I think it says a lot that Diane is wearing what looks like a casual sweater over a casual top and didn't even bother to dress professionally for a meeting with the public. It seems (to me, at least) to imply disdain for the audience.

At least Kevin is wearing a tie and trying to look professional.

http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/article/2019/02/dinky-set-to-return-by-june-30

 

[Bob Dylan]

Keep the Heat on NJT Patty!

They're not known for truth telling as I'm sure you know! <_<

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

Our governor told NJT they have to tell rail riders by the end of this week when the Atlantic City line, the Dinky, and the Raritan Valley line will return, instead of by the end of the three-week period they had given themselves.

That's a nice gesture, but of course they can say anything and then say later that it had to be changed....we'll see.

 

[jis]

Our governor told NJT they have to tell rail riders by the end of this week when the Atlantic City line, the Dinky, and the Raritan Valley line will return, instead of by the end of the three-week period they had given themselves.

That's a nice gesture, but of course they can say anything and then say later that it had to be changed....we'll see.

He is not saying that out of the goodness of his heart. He has been read the riot act by some of the legislature and apparently been told that he might be looking for another job soon, or feel an unusually strong urge to spend more time with his family, unless things improve faster, with specific commitments that are met. IOW no more pussyfooting, and lying. The Governor is feeling the heat and getting nightmares about continuation in office after the next election being put in jeopardy.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

He is not saying that out of the goodness of his heart.

When I said "That's a nice gesture," I actually was being a bit sarcastic.

I realize the power conflicts--it is ironic that some of the state power brokers got on better with a governor from the opposite party than they do with the current one :wacko: .

 

[Thirdrail7]

https://www.nj.com//traffic/2019/02/good-news-atlantic-city-and-dinky-riders-your-nj-transit-trains-are-coming-back.html  

The return date for AC service and the Dinky is allegedly May 24th.

Just in time for Amtrak to announce their NYP summer operations plan, which will limit capacity. 

Even though the doesn’t directly impact the aforementioned services, it does impact Raritan service.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

And, I'm assuming, just a few weeks before summer vacation starts for Princeton University.

So then NJT can say, "Look, there's hardly anyone on the Dinky--more justification for us to get rid of it!"

(I was never this cynical til NJT entered my life!)

 

[jis]

Meanwhile in NJTransit-land ....

https://www.nj.com/traffic/2019/03/nj-transit-canceled-20-trains-because-there-werent-crews-to-run-them.html

20 trains canceled during Monday morning rush hour due to lack of staff.

Maybe they should not have laid off that batch of Engineers in 2017 when they came up for promotion, just to save money.

 

[Thirdrail7]

20 trains canceled during Monday morning rush hour due to lack of staff.

Uh-oh. They may cancel service on the Gladstone Branch next.....for...eerrrrrr, PTC implementation, of course! h34r:

 

[jis]

Uh-oh. They may cancel service on the Gladstone Branch next.....for...eerrrrrr, PTC implementation, of course! h34r:

LOL! Maybe they can borrow the latest scandal from LIRR and claim that the transponders were tested against wrong test models or something.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

Meanwhile in NJTransit-land ....

https://www.nj.com/traffic/2019/03/nj-transit-canceled-20-trains-because-there-werent-crews-to-run-them.html

20 trains canceled during Monday morning rush hour due to lack of staff.

Maybe they should not have laid off that batch of Engineers in 2017 when they came up for promotion, just to save money.

51 NJT trains had been cancelled by the end of the day Monday, mostly because engineers and conductors called out sick, I believe (with a few that had the regular excuses--mechanical issues, etc.). That is way over normal even for NJT. 

I mentioned it to a friend yesterday, and her immediate question was, "Are contract negotiations coming up?"

She and I both thought this could have been a "sick-out" to put pressure on the governor or legislature, and it's interesting that our current governor just gave his budget address, including more emphasis on NJT.

Anyone with more knowledge than I have any information about this?

 

[jis]

Ultimately NJT will have to give salaries and benefits that are competitive with MTA railroads. I don't know if this had something to do with that.

But then again, the new Governor also seems to have appointed a Transport Commissioner who appears to be completely free of any knowledge about transportation, specially bus and train or what her department is responsible for, and apparently any competence and short term memory too. So who knows what goes on in NJ. :lol:

 

[Thirdrail7]

51 NJT trains had been cancelled by the end of the day Monday, mostly because engineers and conductors called out sick, I believe (with a few that had the regular excuses--mechanical issues, etc.). That is way over normal even for NJT. 

I mentioned it to a friend yesterday, and her immediate question was, "Are contract negotiations coming up?"

She and I both thought this could have been a "sick-out" to put pressure on the governor or legislature, and it's interesting that our current governor just gave his budget address, including more emphasis on NJT.

Anyone with more knowledge than I have any information about this?

Ummm...it goes back to what I stated before. Trains represent trains.  The divisions cross. Issues on the Hoboken Division ultimately impact issues on the Newark Division and vice versa.   North Jersey had terrible weather, particularly in the North West area of the state. This resulted in treacherous driving conditions due to closed roads,  trees down, snow and ice accumulation. A lot of the Hoboken Division crew (which a great deal of the initial terminals being nestled in the mountainous regions) couldn't make it in a safe and timely fashion.

Now, years ago, the railroads would foresee these types of weather incidents and take steps to house their crews to make sure they show up. The railroads have scaled back these practices citing costs and not being responsible for where the employees live. The employees, citing safety and costs(e.g. is the cost of putting myself up in hotel greater than, equal to or less than what I will make braving the elements) often go home and hunker down without pay.

That means divisions aren't fed their trains, leading to a cascade effect. It is a different generation of workers. They favor quality of life over finances.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

But then again, the new Governor also seems to have appointed a Transport Commissioner who appears to be completely free of any knowledge about transportation, specially bus and train or what her department is responsible for, and apparently any competence and short term memory too. So who knows what goes on in NJ. :lol:

I looked her up on Wikipedia, and she was in charge of the NJ Turnpike and the Florida Turnpike.

So that pretty much says it all as to where her transportation experience is from.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

Ummm...it goes back to what I stated before. Trains represent trains.  The divisions cross. Issues on the Hoboken Division ultimately impact issues on the Newark Division and vice versa.   North Jersey had terrible weather, particularly in the North West area of the state. This resulted in treacherous driving conditions due to closed roads,  trees down, snow and ice accumulation. A lot of the Hoboken Division crew (which a great deal of the initial terminals being nestled in the mountainous regions) couldn't make it in a safe and timely fashion.

Now, years ago, the railroads would foresee these types of weather incidents and take steps to house their crews to make sure they show up. The railroads have scaled back these practices citing costs and not being responsible for where the employees live. The employees, citing safety and costs(e.g. is the cost of putting myself up in hotel greater than, equal to or less than what I will make braving the elements) often go home and hunker down without pay.

That means divisions aren't fed their trains, leading to a cascade effect. It is a different generation of workers. They favor quality of life over finances.

Thanks, Thirdrail 7.

I hadn't realized how many of the initial terminals were so far up in the state or that so many feed into areas farther down. And they did have much worse weather than where I live. It just seemed like an excessive amount of trains cancelled, but your explanation explains it well.

 

[Thirdrail7]

NJ Transit adds bus stop at Atlantic City Rail Terminal

https://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/press/atlantic_city/nj-transit-adds-bus-stop-at-atlantic-city-rail-terminal/article_d89a1111-5c9e-5ed9-9b44-dd9d94766e50.html

ATLANTIC CITY — NJ Transit will temporarily adjust its substitute bus service to make an additional stop at the Convention Center until the Atlantic City Rail Line is restored in May.
Beginning March 9, the 551 express bus route from Atlantic City to Philadelphia and the 340 route from Atlantic City to Lindenwold Express will each stop at the rail terminal on most trips.

Weeeee!

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

And in the kicking someone when they are down category, it was in the local news today that Metro-North has been hiring engineers away from NJT. And has a surplus, so some of them are on-call and being paid for being home as they wait for work!