No Blue "Nightlights" in Coach/BC

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Can we also start a rant of the forced blue night light in sleepers?
What is there to rant about. At least on Viewliners nothing is forced. Just turn it off. I always do.
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That is not the case in the newly refurbished Superliners and I am guessing it will not be the case on the new view liners. (The darkest you can set the room is the night setting with a blue light on.)
The LED-ized VL-1s allow you to turn lights off completely.
If they are doing what you claim that is a negative move which unfortunately has become more of the norm for Amtrak of late. Have you written to give feedback to Amtrak yet? I will when I come across one. Haven’t so far.

Naturally ranting here will have no effect on anything.

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"If they are doing what you claim" - ummm this was done a few years ago when they also took out the ability to turn of the PA announcements in your room. I can't imagine I'm the only one who has noticed this (or am I just dreaming of blue lights?).
 
I have never had trouble turning off the blue night light. Superliner/Viewliner, 1/2, refurbished/unrefurbished. Not sure what you are encountering.
 
I have never had trouble turning off the blue night light. Superliner/Viewliner, 1/2, refurbished/unrefurbished. Not sure what you are encountering.
Have you been in the refurbished superliner room that has no PA / Volume controls? That's the refurb. I'm referring to.
 
That said, even in the early 2000's, I can recall the white center isle lights being switched off and the blue lights being left on. It's only been in the last 10 years that I have noticed the white lights being left on in perpetuity.
After Silver Spring, the standards were changed. However, there was a grace period on older equipment. However, there is a probable cause as to why you may have seen a difference. I'm not an expert, but I'm throwing this out there from the Cliff Notes on CFR § 238.115 Emergency lighting:

§ 238.115 Emergency lighting.

(a) Prior to January 1, 2017, the requirements specified in paragraphs (a)(1) through (4) of this section apply to each passenger car ordered on or after September 8, 2000, or placed in service for the first time on or after September 9, 2002. Emergency lighting shall be provided in each passenger car and shall include the following:

(1) A minimum, average illumination level of 1 foot-candle measured at floor level adjacent to each exterior door and each interior door providing access to an exterior door (such as a door opening into a vestibule);

(2) A minimum, average illumination level of 1 foot-candle measured 25 inches above floor level along the center of each aisle and passageway;

(3) A minimum illumination level of 0.1 foot-candle measured 25 inches above floor level at any point along the center of each aisle and passageway;


This is required in case something occurs (like a derailment) and power is lost. They want you to be able to see if you have to crawl out of the train. Now, I'm not versed on electricity or illumination (the measurements are called foot candles, for what its worth) but there are standards in place to make sure the lighting meets the requirements. Such lighting is A brief quote from 12. APTA PR-E-S-013-99, Rev. 1

Standard for Emergency Lighting System Design for Passenger Cars:Revision 1 Approved September 11, 2007 which was roughly 10 years ago:

6. Evaluation measurements and tests

To verify design and compliance with the minimum emergency light level requirements in Table 1, railroads shall ensure that a qualification test is conducted on at least one representative car / area for each emergency lighting system layout, in accordance with this section and Annex C.

For passenger cars placed in service before January 1, 2008, this test shall be conducted by December 31, 2008.

For passenger cars placed in service for the first time on or after January 1, 2008, this test shall be completed before the equipment is released for operation in revenue service.

6.1 Preparation for tests

The following general factors apply to all tests:

• The condition of the battery system shall be identified. The battery should be fully charged.

• All of the battery loads that may be applied under emergency conditions shall be identified. Circuit breaker switches shall be set so that those loads (door operators, PA system, controls, headlights or marker lights, etc.) that are normally present in revenue service are energized during the emergency lighting tests.

• The tests shall be conducted with battery power only; any feeds from HEP, auxiliary, or wayside sources must be disconnected.

• All extraneous light should be excluded to the extent practicable. Meaningful data can be collected only if ambient light can be eliminated almost completely from the areas being measured. Any approach is acceptable as long as ambient light is reduced below 0.01 fc (0.1 lux) in the areas being measured. Several methods can be used to eliminate ambient light for accurate data collection:

- Work at night with cars parked away from bright yard lights;

- Locate cars in a dark, windowless shop or carwash, if available;

- Mask windows and vestibules with roofing paper, flooring paper, or similar opaque materials; or

- Drape cars with opaque tarpaulins.

• When photoelectric cell type instruments are used, the car should be at a temperature above 60oF (16oC) and the instruments operated in accordance with the manufacturer’s operating instructions. This is not necessary with instruments that have temperature compensation built in.

It is recommended that information be recorded identifying date of manufacture and time in service of batteries.

Fluorescent lamps should have at least 100 hours in service before tests are made and be warmed up for at least 15 minutes before any readings are taken so that they will achieve full rated light output.

If the ambient light can’t be reduced to 0.01 fc, there are two alternative measurements that can be used to meet the requirements in Table 1:

1) Measure the ambient light at each location and subtract that value from the value measured with the emergency lighting operating; or

2) If the emergency lighting is at least twice the required levels in Table 1 plus the ambient light reading, consider that the required levels to be met.

6.3 Procedures for measuring illuminance of emergency lighting systems

Measurements of the emergency lighting system performance shall be taken as spatial averages in the immediate vicinity of an action point, as specified in this Section. No single reading used in the spatial average shall be below 0.1 fc (1 lux) (i.e., no dark spots are allowed). The action points considered within this standard are at the door exit release, at armrest level (25 inches (64 cm) above the floor), on the floor, and at specified stairway step locations.

Each section below specifies the minimum number of illuminance measurements required in a particular area of a car. Railroads and car builders are permitted to take more measurements and calculate averages of such measurements.

6.3.1 Required equipment

To ensure accurate illuminance measurements including measurements on vertical surfaces at which the angle of incident light is large, the light meter must be designed to take such measurements and possess:

• Basic accuracy: ± 3% of reading ±1 digit or better,

• Resolution: 0.01 fc or better,

• Cosine error: no more than 6%, measured at 50 degrees, and

• Color correction to CIE photopic curve.

Unless the floor measurement value is known to be at least 5 times the value in Table 1, a 6.5 foot (2 m) separation between the sensor head and the display must be used to ensure that the close proximity of the person taking the measurements does not affect the reading
This is the bottom line, It is entirely possible and indeed probable that when they took the measurements, it was decided the blue lights did not meet the minimum requirements and therefore, the center lights must remain on to be in compliance.

Additionally, most of the grandfathered equipment has run its length.:

.

(2) No later than December 31, 2015, at least 70 percent of each railroad's passenger cars that were ordered prior to September 8, 2000, and placed in service prior to September 9, 2002, shall be in compliance with the emergency lighting requirements provided in paragraph (b)(1) of this section.
I haven't discussed this in depth with anyone. It is only my theory, which happens to fit the facts based upon your timeline, Blackwolf.

At any rate, I don't know foot candles from real candles but I do know the aisle lights are part of the emergency lighting system.

You're welcome!
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I have never had trouble turning off the blue night light. Superliner/Viewliner, 1/2, refurbished/unrefurbished. Not sure what you are encountering.
Have you been in the refurbished superliner room that has no PA / Volume controls? That's the refurb. I'm referring to.
I was in one these yesterday and the blue light could be turned off.
 
Interesting... The last several trips I've taken I've been in transdorms or non-refurbished sleepers so maybe I am dreaming that up and just thinking of the PA volume. Maybe I had a random one that didn't turn off? Who knows.... Ha.
 
I've been on several Superliner sleepers in the past two years, and all of them allow you to turn off all cabin lights.

However... the hallway lights are all illuminated all the time, full brightness, so if the curtains aren't sealed tight you get a lot of light from that direction.

Reminds me I need to order a new roll of gaffers tape before my next trip!
 
Interesting... The last several trips I've taken I've been in transdorms or non-refurbished sleepers so maybe I am dreaming that up and just thinking of the PA volume. Maybe I had a random one that didn't turn off? Who knows.... Ha.
I would be surprised if you could turn off the PA in your room these days since they're required under FRA emergency communications guidelines since 2012.

49 CFR 238.121 - Emergency communication.

§ 238.121 Emergency communication.

(a)PA system (public address system).

(1)Existing Tier I passenger cars. On or after January 1, 2012, each Tier I passenger car shall be equipped with a PA system that provides a means for a train crewmember to communicate by voice to passengers of his or her train in an emergency situation.(2)New Tier I and all Tier II passenger cars. Each Tier I passenger car ordered on or after April 1, 2008, or placed in service for the first time on or after April 1, 2010, and all Tier II passenger cars shall be equipped with a PA system that provides a means for a train crewmember to communicate by voice to passengers of his or her train in an emergency situation. The PA system shall also provide a means for a train crewmember to communicate by voice in an emergency situation to persons in the immediate vicinity of his or her train (e.g., persons on the station platform). The PA system may be part of the same system as the intercom system.

(b)Intercom system.(1)New Tier I and all Tier II passenger cars. Each Tier I passenger car ordered on or after April 1, 2008, or placed in service for the first time on or after April 1, 2010, and all Tier II passenger cars shall be equipped with an intercom system that provides a means for passengers and crewmembers to communicate by voice with each other in an emergency situation. Except as further specified, at least one intercom that is accessible to passengers without using a tool or other implement shall be located in each end (half) of each car. If any passenger car does not exceed 45 feet in length, or if a Tier II passenger car was ordered prior to May 12, 1999, only one such intercom is required. The intercom system may be part of the same system as the PA system.
Being able to shut if off complete would defeat the purpose. Now, if they could modify it to to be equipped with an "on" and "emergency" positions, that would probably be helpful.

Perhaps the next wave of equipment will have an option.
 
I have never been in a roomette where you could not turn the night light off, regardless of whether it was dim white or blue. That includes the refurbs where there was no PA volume control.
My reading comprehension is off. I was in a bedroom not a roomette so maybe they are different. It's been a few years since I've been in a roomette.

This weekend I was in both SL1 and SL2 bedrooms and both had a three way toggle switch, middle was off, one direction was nightlight, the other direction full on. The SL2 had a white nightlight, the SL1 a blue.
 
If they had a toggle switch, they weren't the refurbished ones I am thinking of. The ones im thinking of don't have a switch, they have metal plates that you touch to turn the different lights on.
 
The ones with reed switches (i.e. refurb ones) that I have been on simply toggle through bright - night - off with each push of the switch.

But admittedly I have not been on all Superliner cars individually, so I cannot make a universal statement based on the few observations.

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(1) A minimum, average illumination level of 1 foot-candle measured at floor level adjacent to each exterior door and each interior door providing access to an exterior door (such as a door opening into a vestibule);(2) A minimum, average illumination level of 1 foot-candle measured 25 inches above floor level along the center of each aisle and passageway;

(3) A minimum illumination level of 0.1 foot-candle measured 25 inches above floor level at any point along the center of each aisle and passageway;

This is required in case something occurs (like a derailment) and power is lost. They want you to be able to see if you have to crawl out of the train. Now, I'm not versed on electricity or illumination (the measurements are called foot candles, for what its worth) but there are standards in place to make sure the lighting meets the requirements.
The footcandle levels are basically the same as the building code requirements for lighting of the paths to an exit, the "means of egress." Except the building measurements are at floor level rather than 25 inches up. In a building, the egress lighting has a battery backup (or the building has a generator and automatic power transfer); in the event of a power failure, the lights come on under battery (or generator) power. I assume similar requirements apply to rail cars for situations where HEP fails or is disconnected.

In order for the egress lighting to be turned off (or dimmed below the minimum requirements) when a building is occupied, for example in a movie theater, there needs to be a connection to the fire alarm such that activating the alarm system will turn the lights on. I do not recommend trying this in your local cinema, just take my word for it. Maybe this is the piece that is missing on Amtrak equipment, or in the applicable CFR.

Sleepers seem like they should be (and have been in my experience) analogous to hotels, where the corridor lighting stays on but the room lighting is controlled by the occupant and can be turned off completely.
 
Whether in coach, business class, or sleeper (roomette) overnight, I always wear foam earplugs, an eyemask, and a balaclava over my head to keep the others in place and my head warm. Plus a small travel blanket to cover legs and torso. Then I am as comfy as a bug in a rug.
 
If they had a toggle switch, they weren't the refurbished ones I am thinking of. The ones im thinking of don't have a switch, they have metal plates that you touch to turn the different lights on.
OK, I've never seen the switches that you are referring to. I was thinking of the older SL1 refurbs done more than a handful of years ago. I'll have to search around for some pics.
 
If they had a toggle switch, they weren't the refurbished ones I am thinking of. The ones im thinking of don't have a switch, they have metal plates that you touch to turn the different lights on.
OK, I've never seen the switches that you are referring to. I was thinking of the older SL1 refurbs done more than a handful of years ago. I'll have to search around for some pics.

Here are some I found from a Google search:

https://goo.gl/images/bYVnaZ

https://goo.gl/images/Hsx1Yb
 
And just like jis said, those clearly say "off" and "night" so I'm clearly remembering wrong.... Not the last time I'm sure.
 
Can we also start a rant of the forced blue night light in sleepers?
What is there to rant about. At least on Viewliners nothing is forced. Just turn it off. I always do.
default_wink.png
That is not the case in the newly refurbished Superliners and I am guessing it will not be the case on the new view liners. (The darkest you can set the room is the night setting with a blue light on.)
Yeah, that's an unacceptable situation. I bring duct tape (I'll use gaffer tape in future) and tape over that, since it is clearly an error. Since it's known that blue light keeps people awake, it's obviously a defect in the car, which must be corrected with tape.

I leave the tape in place as a courtesy to the next passenger.

This defect occurs in a number of the "Superliner I refurbs", with the "touch" switches for the lights -- the "off" setting doesn't work and still leaves a blue light on. I'm pretty certain this is an outright design error, especially since there are *massive* numbers of stupid design mistakes in the refurbishment of the Superliner Is, including those switches which have no tactile response and can't be used with gloves on. (The Superliner II design is substantially better.)

The only reasons I haven't made a major stink about this are:

(1) Duct tape fixes the defect;

(2) They stopped the Superliner I refurb program halfway through, so they aren't likely to add this defect to more cars;

(3) I haven't seen any signs of this idiocy on any other cars.
 
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The brightness and proximity of lights emitting a lot of blue light factors as far as how much a person's sleep might be affected.

Mostly at issue is blue light emitted from personal use electronic displays held close to the face.

Age is also a factor with young people (teens) being more susceptible to difficulty getting to sleep because of blue light.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/blue-light-has-a-dark-side

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/blue-light-from-electronics-disturbs-sleep-especially-for-teenagers/2014/08/29/3edd2726-27a7-11e4-958c-268a320a60ce_story.html?utm_term=.5f114c62cbaf
 
So what was the consensus on this? I'm confused with all the discussion. Currently on 48(18) and couldn't sleep well with the white aisle ceiling lights on. Window and luggage rack lights were switched off, but I found that (after I asked for them to be changed each time) the Superliner trains I've been on this trip have been able to change them to the blue night light which makes it would much easier to sleep! Was this something the crew wasn't allowed to do or is it something the Amfleets don't have?
 
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