No more Sunset Ltd trains 19 and 20 will run in it's place

[had8ley]

Before we get carried away like the 180-day thread, let's remember that this is simply a rumor and is not specifically endorsed (or otherwise) by the administrators. Everyone is entitled to write what they wish, but I don't want to again go through the whole argument about the fact that our allowing the thread to remain open is a tacit endorsement :lol:

Anthony;

Well stated. Lest we forget our past experiences with "official" changes.

 

[Rafi]

I think most people missed this, as it was the last item on page 1, and page 2 came up less than 10 minutes later. Just FYI.

-Rafi

For what it's worth....
Sam Damon and I attended tonight's Annual NARP reception in Washington, DC and had the opportunity to speak with Emmett Fremaux (VP of Marketing) at length about various these sorts of things, and I asked him point blank if he had heard of this rumor.

He said that he had, in fact, heard of that plan, but it was one of many that are being considered. It was clear to me that at least from Fremaux's point of view, things were still very much unofficial in so far as what he could tell us. In speaking to Sam just now about it, he mentions to me that from where he stood, it sounded to him like this particular plan never got past the "conversation" stage in Amtrak's offices. That could be, or it could be that Fremaux was just biting his tongue, but that's just my own commentary.

Again, I should reiterate that Fremaux said he had only heard of this option in the context of others, so it appears that what Matt has put forth has at least been discussed, but as far as an Amtrak VP is concerned, as of tonight (May 2), it is officially just an option that has been discussed and nothing more.

-Rafi

 

[Guest_gp35_*]

This is the dumbest Idea ever. Crescent is doing pretty good business. Texas Eagle is doing well. Sunset is struggling because its tri-weekly. Sunset is late because of the Houston and southwest traffic. All this plan does is hurt the Eagle and Crescent. Just like his last prediction, it'll never happen.

Crescent will most likely be rerouted to DFW.

Sunset increased to quad-weekly

Heartland extended to San Antonio...Maybe Laredo and Tulsa

Eagle to El paso or Albuquerque....

Why? state money is becoming available to Amtrak.

 

[Sam Damon]

Just got back from my little visit to the Washington, DC area, wrapping with a good run of #43(3).

I'll reiterate Rafi's observations, and amplify mine somewhat. I honestly get the impression this sort of talk that Matt claims is the official plan is nothing more than talk. Maybe Amtrak does have this as an official plan, if the cash is forthcoming. But that's not a "given" by any stretch of the imagination right now.

I do know that Fremaux is from the NOLA area, and service to and from there cannot be very far from his mind. Even so, while Rafi and I chatted with him at the NARP reception, I never got the sense that he was biting his tongue. I'm not saying my "bullstuff detector" is flawless. I'm just saying I get the feeling that if we ask direct questions, we'll get direct answers from that man.

Let the discussion continue.

 

[AlanB]

Even so, while Rafi and I chatted with him at the NARP reception, I never got the sense that he was biting his tongue. I'm not saying my "bullstuff detector" is flawless. I'm just saying I get the feeling that if we ask direct questions, we'll get direct answers from that man.

A good friend of mine who rode with Emmett from NYP to Syracuse for a NARP Regional meeting also got that same impression. And he had the chance for some good one on one, as they were captive on that train.

 

[Guest_gp35_*]

congress is giving Amtrak more money than they asked for. I think it was 1.7 billion.

 

[Guest_gp35_*]

Senate Democrats Propose $1.78 billion for Amtrak - Exceeds Amtrak's Own Proposal - March 17, 2007

Now here's some refreshing news. Senator Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) has announced that the Senate's budget for Amtrak will be $1.78 billion for Amtrak, which is nearly twice what the Bush administration is proposing and even exceeds the Amtrak Board's own request. The $1.78 billion includes $100 million in the form of matching grants for states to use to develop rail service on key corridors in their territory and $50 million to pay for upgrades needed to make Amtrak stations compliant with the Americans with Disabilities Act. "We're on our way to building a 21st-century rail system," said Lautenberg.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Amtrak Requests $1.53 billion for FY 2008 - February 20, 2007

Amtrak is asking Congress for $1.53 billion in funding for fiscal 2008, a nearly 18 percent increase from the $1.3 billion Amtrak is getting this year and nearly twice the amount proposed by President Bush. Of this $485 million would be for operating costs. That's the same as what the railroad received in both 2006 and 2007. Another $760 million would be for capital investments. That money would go toward an ongoing overhaul of its passenger cars and locomotives and toward improvements to the northeast corridor, which is almost solely owned by Amtrak, and where the high speed Acela trains run between Boston and Washington. The rest of the national system is owned by private freight railroads. The remainder would be for debt service. Amtrak is asking for another $100 million to be set aside as matching grants for states to use for intercity passenger rail projects.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[George Harris]

congress is giving Amtrak more money than they asked for. I think it was 1.7 billion.

Don't count your chickens yet. It has not passed the house. The current set of leadership in the house regards anything between the right coast and left coast as empty flyover country, so I see no hope for Amtrak long distace there. Therefore, even if it does, it is likely to be spent on short corridors in the power bases for these people.

The sum of the proposed scheme that Matt laid out was a ZERO increase in train miles. The middle of the night switching for the Eagle/Sunset becomes a middle of the day turn around and service for the Crescent, so I do not see how this scheme increased costs. It should increase ridership, at least in my opinion, because it make a direct northeast to Houston service.

 

[Guest_gp35_*]

I would run crescent to DFW and on to ABQ. More ppl would ride a direct route to the east coast from those cities vs Houston. Try adding up the population between ABQ and Meridian; Jackson, Shreveport, DFW, Abilene, Lubbock, Albuquerque. Compared to NOL, Lafayette, Beaumont, Houston, SAS. I only used cities with +100,000 pop.

Texas Eagle should go to El Paso via Midland/Odessa.

Heartland Tulsa to Laredo via FW, AUS, SAS.

Sunset go daily.

This configuration covers a huge percent of Texas 25 million ppl. This would result in a massive increase in riders.

 

[printman2000]

I would run crescent to DFW and on to ABQ. More ppl would ride a direct route to the east coast from those cities vs Houston. Try adding up the population between ABQ and Meridian; Jackson, Shreveport, DFW, Abilene, Lubbock, Albuquerque. Compared to NOL, Lafayette, Beaumont, Houston, SAS. I only used cities with +100,000 pop.
Texas Eagle should go to El Paso via Midland/Odessa.

Heartland Tulsa to Laredo via FW, AUS, SAS.

Sunset go daily.

This configuration covers a huge percent of Texas 25 million ppl. This would result in a massive increase in riders.

Don't forget about Amarillo! We need her to swing in here.

 

[Guest_gp35_*]

I would run crescent to DFW and on to ABQ. More ppl would ride a direct route to the east coast from those cities vs Houston. Try adding up the population between ABQ and Meridian; Jackson, Shreveport, DFW, Abilene, Lubbock, Albuquerque. Compared to NOL, Lafayette, Beaumont, Houston, SAS. I only used cities with +100,000 pop.

Texas Eagle should go to El Paso via Midland/Odessa.

Heartland Tulsa to Laredo via FW, AUS, SAS.

Sunset go daily.

This configuration covers a huge percent of Texas 25 million ppl. This would result in a massive increase in riders.

Don't forget about Amarillo! We need her to swing in here.

2 options for Amarillo, turn the Chief to a more southernly route or introduce the Caprock express.

Denver to FW via Amarillo and Lubbock or Amarillo and witchita falls. And I would extend it to Houston and end it in Galveston.

 

[printman2000]

2 options for Amarillo, turn the Chief to a more southernly route or introduce the Caprock express.Denver to FW via Amarillo and Lubbock or Amarillo and witchita falls. And I would extend it to Houston and end it in Galveston.

I had the idea of having the Chief come through Amarillo 3 times a week and its normal route the other 4. That way, no one loses all their service.

 

[Chatter163]

So once again we are faced with a rumor--an idea that Amtrak is possibly considering for the future, but nothing definite. This is despite the fact that, once again, it has been reported here as "official" by a member who seems not to have learned his lessons from the past. :huh: *...sigh...*

 

[Guest_gp35_*]

2 options for Amarillo, turn the Chief to a more southernly route or introduce the Caprock express.

Denver to FW via Amarillo and Lubbock or Amarillo and witchita falls. And I would extend it to Houston and end it in Galveston.

I had the idea of having the Chief come through Amarillo 3 times a week and its normal route the other 4. That way, no one loses all their service.

We have the Sunset tri-weekly here in Beaumont, and it sucks. I mean its better than no service, but it is very difficult to plan a trip around tri-weekly. This is why Sunset passenger numbers are low. Daily Sunset would be a huge win for Amtrak. A high ranking Amtrak person said it would be cheaper to run Sunset daily because Amtrak must pay hotels for engine drivers, conductors, and attendance for as many 2 days in Beaumont and other crew change stops. Lacking equiment is the reason for no Daily Sunset.

 

[had8ley]

So once again we are faced with a rumor--an idea that Amtrak is possibly considering for the future, but nothing definite. This is despite the fact that, once again, it has been reported here as "official" by a member who seems not to have learned his lessons from the past. :huh: *...sigh...*

Chatter163;

I couldn't agree with you more. Although this is an open forum I feel sorry for those who think it may be a spotlight for fame. Anyone who goes around with business cards claiming to save the world of trains and puts them in depots, diners and lounge cars needs some help. As far as the content of the "official" changes we don't have any other way of silencing the illusions of grandeur other than to call BFI.

 

[jphjaxfl]

Its seems to me there is way too much speculation about a possible change that may or may not actually happen. When an official change is actually annouced Amtrak, then the positives and negatives of that change can be discussed. In the interim, we should all continue to contact our elected representatives including federal, state and local about improved passenger train service throughout the US. Amtrak has some serious issues that need to be overcome to attract new ridership beyond those of us who enjoy riding trains. The issues include long range funding of new equipment for short and long distance trains, timeliness of trains, mandating that passenger trains have priority over freigt trains which could be done by helping freight railroad expand capacity through federal and state grants much as when railroads were first built, and improved customer service throughout Amtrak so first time passengers will want to return, rather than saying "never again". There is an interest in passenger train service by elected officials right now due to high cost of gas and congested highways. There was a similar interest in the early 1970s when there were gasoline shortages and high prices. Except in places like California, there really hasn't been much improvement in Amtrak service in those 30 year since the early 1970s. We have an opportunity again, but we have to keep reminding the elected officials who can be very shortsighted on issues like improved passenger train service. If a strong grassroots effort is made to encourage better passenger service, we won't have to be concerned about service being discontinued. The discussion can be who is going to get new or increased passenger train service first.

 

[DaveKCMO]

why spend any money on the sunset (or any other LD route) before you get a law that carries fines for the worst of the host railroads? amtrak should only be expanding in areas that can improve its OTP that politicians love to use as an excuse to destroy it.

 

[Superliner Diner]

2 options for Amarillo, turn the Chief to a more southernly route or introduce the Caprock express.

Denver to FW via Amarillo and Lubbock or Amarillo and witchita falls. And I would extend it to Houston and end it in Galveston.

I had the idea of having the Chief come through Amarillo 3 times a week and its normal route the other 4. That way, no one loses all their service.

Nice thought, but I would hope that Amtrak has learned from its mistakes of providing less-than-daily service. While those on the current Southwest Chief route would not lose all of their service, they would lose daily service over a portion of it. That will eventually drive those passengers away for good, or until daily service is restored.

 

[Superliner Diner]

why spend any money on the sunset (or any other LD route) before you get a law that carries fines for the worst of the host railroads? amtrak should only be expanding in areas that can improve its OTP that politicians love to use as an excuse to destroy it.

Back in 1996, when the 25-year contracts between Amtrak and the freight railroads were set to expire, Amtrak had the opportunity to renegotiate and have explicit language put into the contracts about the importance of OTP for passenger trains. Whether they did or not, and whether it is enforced or enforceable is moot because in the past 11 years, OTP has been terrible on many routes.

Amtrak has some leverage in the east with NS and CSX. Amtrak lets some of those railroad's hotshots use the Northeast Corridor at night. If CSX continually causes problems in the Southeast, and NS keeps on stabbing the Lake Shore and Capitol Limiteds in Indiana, then Amtrak should either forbid those railroads from using the NEC, or intentionally delay them.

 

[Guest_gp35_*]

why spend any money on the sunset (or any other LD route) before you get a law that carries fines for the worst of the host railroads? amtrak should only be expanding in areas that can improve its OTP that politicians love to use as an excuse to destroy it.

UP is doubling its track in the southwest, this should improve OTP greatly. A big problem remains in Houston.

Only 1 track remains for trains leaving/coming Houston to the west. A couple of fly-overs in key areas could do the trick, but that makes too much sense.

 

[Guest_gp35_*]

Another suggestion. Increase the Sunset to quad weekly. On the remaining days Sunset does not run, run the Eagle and Cresent. The Sunset limited won't be daily, but the route will be daily.

 

[AlanB]

Another suggestion. Increase the Sunset to quad weekly. On the remaining days Sunset does not run, run the Eagle and Cresent. The Sunset limited won't be daily, but the route will be daily.

Now that is a very interesting idea. I like this plan. Don't need more equipment, provide better service overall to the Sunset line, and provide options for other lines too.

 

[Guest]

Another suggestion. Increase the Sunset to quad weekly. On the remaining days Sunset does not run, run the Eagle and Cresent. The Sunset limited won't be daily, but the route will be daily.

Now that is a very interesting idea. I like this plan. Don't need more equipment, provide better service overall to the Sunset line, and provide options for other lines too.

Well, Amtrak may need 2 more sets of trains to make this work. But that is still less than the 4 extra sets needed for a daily Sunset.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

I dunno. You might need 6 or 8 more sets for a daily Sunset, depending on how many of them end up sitting on sidings for several days courtesy of Unlimited Parking.

 

[Trogdor]

Another suggestion. Increase the Sunset to quad weekly. On the remaining days Sunset does not run, run the Eagle and Cresent. The Sunset limited won't be daily, but the route will be daily.

Now that is a very interesting idea. I like this plan. Don't need more equipment, provide better service overall to the Sunset line, and provide options for other lines too.

I'm struggling to see how this wouldn't require more equipment.