Normal For Sleepers On Rear And Coach In Front?

[The Chief]

What is the "railfan window"?

End of Train window/door.

Texas Eagle backing out of Fort Worth.

Sleeper on rear end, The Chief photo.

 

[Silver Star rider]

On the single level trains the Sleepers are never the last car. There is always a baggage car behind the last Sleeper these days.

These days being the operative word. Here is a photo of a NJ Transit train sneaking in behind the Star at Newark Penn Station.

I remember this trip. I was the only passenger boarding at NYP in that sleeper car. The SCA greeted me by name. When I asked how he knew who I was, he told me that

Bruce-SSR

 

[CHamilton]

My avatar is taken from the railfan window of train 27 a couple of years ago. If you look carefully, you can see the great view, as well as the dirty window. That's Amtrak for you

 

[William W.]

I remember when I took the CZ, people were standing behind the conductor and filming while we were backing into DEN. It seemed to make him a little nervous, because if he screwed up, it would recorded.

 

[neroden]

The attractiveness of the rear window is, of course, why rear observation cars used to be a thing. The operational annoyance of having to put them on the end of the consist, in a particular direction, every time, seems to have discouraged their use in more recent decades.

 

[Dakota 400]

A favorite Amtrak memory of mine is from viewing through the railfan window at the rear of a Sleeping Car aboard The Desert Wind as the train traversed the area between eastern California and Navada. My traveling companion and I had Bedroom A on that car so the trip to the window was short and the views memorable. That was a truly great trip.

 

[Dakota 400]

On the single level trains the Sleepers are never the last car. There is always a baggage car behind the last Sleeper these days.

Maybe not always. I was on a Metro Rail train leaving the Washington, D. C. station for Greenbelt, Maryland in early June, 2014. We passed an incoming obvious long distance train with Viewliner Sleepers at the rear. The luggage car was not at the rear. Checking the timetable with the times any LD trains were due into Washington at the time we were departing the station on the Metro, I concluded that the train I saw was The Crescent arriving in Washington.

 

[chakk]

Actually, the CZ does indeed do a "split" along the way. In Denver, the last sleeper from #5 is removed from the rear of the train and re-attached to the rear of the returning #6. That may be part of the reason that the sleepers are at the rear, i.e. to keep them all together. Of course, the transdorm will always be at the front.

Not always. There are some dates this summer when Amtrak is running that last sleeper all the way to Emeryville.

 

[Railroad Bill]

Actually, the CZ does indeed do a "split" along the way. In Denver, the last sleeper from #5 is removed from the rear of the train and re-attached to the rear of the returning #6. That may be part of the reason that the sleepers are at the rear, i.e. to keep them all together. Of course, the transdorm will always be at the front.

Not always. There are some dates this summer when Amtrak is running that last sleeper all the way to Emeryville.

Yes, we had the 533 car all the way to SLC a few years ago. Loved the railfan window on 633 coming back but when we backed into DEN, the conductor made it clear he did not want anyone back there when he was watching and calling signals for the engineer.

Best ride was the 27 sleeper on the EB. Got some great photos all the way across the Dakota and Montana countryside.

Ride the CL and sleepers have always been up front.. But leaving CLE at 1 or 2 am, we rarely are awake to hear the train horns.

 

[jis]

It is now called the 530/630 car. Not 533/633 car!

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[jphjaxfl]

In the past generation or so, there have been a lot of grade crossing elimination projects, so I'm sure there are fewer grade crossings to blow for.

The usual arrangement in the old days was baggage cars on the front, coaches next, diner in the middle, and sleepers at the rear. I was always told that the traditional reason was that they wanted to keep the sleepers farther from the noise and smoke of the steam engine. If cars were to be dropped off and added enroute, this arrangement might be adjusted to suit. In its last days, B&O's train 17, the Cleveland Night Express, arrived in Cleveland with only three cars: a combination baggage and snack service car; a coach; and a 10 roomette, 6 bedroom sleeper. East of Akron, these cars were carried on another train in that order, so the separation of coach and sleeper passengers on the longer train couldn't be maintained.

When I rode the Seaboard Air Line's diesel-powered Silver Meteor in 1967, the sleepers were ahead of the coaches, separated by the diner. The boat-tail observation car was for all passengers, both coach and sleeper; but sleeper passengers had to walk all the way back through the coaches to access it. There was a combination bedroom/lounge car for sleeper passengers only, positioned just ahead of the diner. Its lounge seating area had high windows that curved into the ceiling, similar to the curved window in a sightseer lounge.

My understanding is that these decisions are mostly based on the switching requirements enroute and at terminals. The Silver Meteor was a Miami train, but cars for St. Petersburg were cut out enroute, and the specific switching operations may have dictated the order.

Back in the day, head-end baggage, express, and mail cars were often cut out. If the train had to drop a head-end car and a sleeper at an intermediate stop, the RR might decide to run that one head-end car on the rear, coupled to the sleeper that is to be dropped. Or they might decide to run the sleeper at the head-end, right behind the head-end car.

The Auto Train is never turned: sleepers on the north end; coaches on the south, with the auto carriers always trailing.

On that trip on the 1967 Silver Meteor, I remember that all three E unit diesels faced forward. I believe one unit was cut out to handle the St. Petersburg section, while the other two took the major portion of the train into Miami. With two engines facing forward into Miami, a failure of the lead locomotive can be dealt with by simply swapping engine positions. There would be no need to find a turning facility on short notice to keep the train going.

There can be a lot of factors taken into consideration, but the final determining factor generally is efficient operation.

I believe SAL kept locomotives in Wildwood where the trains would split. The Wildwood based locomotive would handle the Wildwood-Tampa - St. Pete section. In Miami, the trains were wyed and backed into the Seaboard Station. Amtrak continued that practice til they moved to the current Hialeah area station. It was not uncommon for railroads to maintain passenger locomotives along the routes. L&N kept a passenger locomotive in Nashville right up until Amtrak, even though trains no longer originated there.

 

[FormerOBS]

I certainly can't dispute what you say. That's the way I remember the locomotive operation, but the memory is 47 years old, so it may be faulty. Or the operating plan may have changed from time to time.

 

[Alan dennis]

Sleepers were always on the back until amtrak decided to do take yet another step down a decade ago or so. I started riding trains in the late 70's - been on every Amtrak train in America numerous times and was never at the front in a sleeper until the 2000s. I remember watching from the back window of my sleeper on the broadway limited as we backed into union station in chicago. Amtrak is the worst. Too bad you have to go to Canada to ride a real train.

 

[Tennessee Traveler]

Actually, the CZ does indeed do a "split" along the way. In Denver, the last sleeper from #5 is removed from the rear of the train and re-attached to the rear of the returning #6. That may be part of the reason that the sleepers are at the rear, i.e. to keep them all together. Of course, the transdorm will always be at the front.

Not always. There are some dates this summer when Amtrak is running that last sleeper all the way to Emeryville.

My experience riding the CZ this past summer is that the 3rd sleeper is running the full route Chicago to Emeryville. The Denver only sleeper is no longer.

 

[FormerOBS]

Alan dennis:

You say "Amtrak is the worst". No context. No qualifiers.

"...been on every Amtrak train in America numerous times...." Not likely, Mr. Frimbo.

"Sleepers were always on the back until Amtrak decided to...." ALWAYS? You haven't been on every Amtrak train in America.

I'm giving your very astute comments the credence they deserve.

Tom

 

[George K]

Eastbound CZ in September left EMY with 2 sleepers at the rear. They went all the way to CHI.

 

[Bob Dylan]

You indicated that you had been on " Every" Amtrak LD Route since the 70s and that Sleepers were " always" on the Rear until Amtrak decide to move them to the front which started a decline of passenger service!

I've been riding passenger Trains since the 1940s and also have been on every LD Route that Amtrak has run since A Day except the Pioneer and while I'll conceed that, Pre- Amtrak, the Sleepers were generally run on the back of Trains, I've been on Many Trains that had Sleepers on the Front, in the Middle and on the Rear of the consist!

( cut out sleepers and combined trains used to be very common even after A- Day)

So perhaps your own personal experience isn't as comphrensive as you think so maybe absolutes like " Always" ,"Never" etc. aren't appropriate when it comes to this thread!

Generally and Usually would perhaps be more fitting eh?

 

[GG-1]

Aloha

Quite frankly I prefer the sleeper up front, Smother ride and the horn is music to sleep by.

 

[Thirdrail7]

It looks as though the ol' flip flop is set to occur on the eastern long haul trains. Once again, coaches are going to the rear.

 

[JoeBas]

I thought ADA reasons made the sleepers on the rear preferable. Has the ADA changed?

 

[Ryan]

Interesting, I thought that the plan was to keep them year-round.

It wasn't an ADA thing, it was a "make it easy to rotate the LSL consist (which runs sleepers last) south to thaw out in the winter" thing.

 

[JoeBas]

Well, that WAS the reason they were flipped in the winter, and then un-flipped in the summer.

But last summer they left them flipped, and I thought I remembered something about it being related to vestibules and ADA requirements being easier that way...

 

[tommylicious]

whatever location minimizes thru traffic and lookie-loos is the one i prefer

 

[Orie]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but I'm pretty sure the season has something to do with it too. In winter I've noticed a lot of LD trains with the sleepers up front, while for the rest of the year the sleepers tend to be in the rear. This New Years, I was on the CL in two directions, the sleepers were in the front both times. Now, I have no idea why. But it's just a trend I noticed over the past few years.

Edit: Looks like someone just mentioned it above me and I missed it. But, still not sure for the reasoning of it!

 

[Ryan]

The only trains this applies to are the LD trains that originate in New York, so the Capital Limited and all of the other trains aren't impacted.

I detailed the reasoning for it above.