Northeast Regional discussion 2022-2024 H1

[zephyr17]

The seating chart looks like it is for an Amfleet half cafe/half BC car without the forward cafe half being shown. It does show restrooms at the forward end, I guess to reassure those looking at it that there are restrooms. It makes sense that the entire car layout isn't shown on a seating chart since the service counter and tables aren't available seating.

Those cars are not typically used for NE Regional BC service. They are regulars in New York's Empire Service, though.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Hi, it's been quite a while. But here I am to ask my like-minded Amtrak fanatics if they've ever seen anything like this. Recently I'm booking a number of upcoming trips (excited to do so), and while checking the seat assignments automatically made on my business class reservations and changing them if necessary, I was stunned to see this strange chart for a trip on the 186. I am not familiar with this extremely short car and have never seen anything like it. Would part of the car be taken up by cafe seats (doubtful - I don't think they put cafe and business together) or by machinery? I have not seen a car that short. Is that really the back of the car (as drawn) or only the back of the seating area, with maybe luggage being a different compartment of the car?

Anyway, I've been on the business car many times, but it's always been a typical-length car. Is anyone familiar with this?View attachment 33172

Looks like you're in one of the Amfleet Split Cafe/Biz Class Cars which are actually the ideal Biz Class set up since the attendant usually serves Biz Class Passengers first, and you don't have to walk through other cars to visit the cafe for your " Free" Goodies.

The cafe is seperated from the Biz Class seats by a curtain, and is usually the first or last car in the consist.

 

[BALtoNYPtraveler]

The seating chart looks like it is for an Amfleet half cafe/half BC car without the forward cafe half being shown. It does show restrooms at the forward end, I guess to reassure those looking at it that there are restrooms. It makes sense that the entire car layout isn't shown on a seating chart since the service counter and tables aren't available seating.

Those cars are not typically used for NE Regional BC service. They are regulars in New York's Empire Service, though.

Thanks to both you and Bob Dylan. I'll report back after the trip! (if I remember. It's in September. Nice fares available by booking this far in advance.)

 

[PVD]

The Vermonter uses them, and it runs the corridor after New Haven. If I recall, 65/66/67 use them as well.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

The Vermonter uses them, and it runs the corridor after New Haven. If I recall, 65/66/67 use them as well.

65 or 67 probably turns for 186. I can’t remember the newish train pairs since they no longer use 65/66 or 67/66 pairing

See my latest post below regarding "the night owls".

 

[BALtoNYPtraveler]

The Vermonter reference was so correct. I just saw this video on YouTube in which someone shared his Vermonter journey. Around the 3:42 mark (and again later in the video) the videographer showed a quick view of the car with the single seats on one side, doubles on the other, curtain, and cafe (I've never seen a curtain dividing seating from the cafe and now I can say I have seen it!)

 

[BALtoNYPtraveler]

Also in this video at 16:00, a different videographer walks through the cafe into the very short business section.


I will quit nerding out at this point, but technically this is still about the NE Regional. As you saw on my screen print, I was clearly sold a NE Regional ticket and I guess they are using the NE Regional itinerary, yet using the Vermonter train. What I don't quite understand is that the Vermonter, Carolinian, Silver Star/Meteor etc. also use the same tracks and I think I've taken all of them on my usual BAL/NYP trip, yet this one was marked the NE Regional. It's all fine & I'll buy a ticket for any of these as long as I get where I'm going. They're all the same to me in that respect. (I do remember that the Carolinian served us a complimentary breakfast, though, and I really appreciated that.)

 

[AmtrakBlue]

65/67 turns for 186/124 and 151 turns for 66

65/186 is weekdays (NYP - Newport News, VA (NPN))
67/124 is weekends (Newport News, VA (NPN))
151/66 (Roanoke, VA (RNK))

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Also in this video at 16:00, a different videographer walks through the cafe into the very short business section.


I will quit nerding out at this point, but technically this is still about the NE Regional. As you saw on my screen print, I was clearly sold a NE Regional ticket and I guess they are using the NE Regional itinerary, yet using the Vermonter train. What I don't quite understand is that the Vermonter, Carolinian, Silver Star/Meteor etc. also use the same tracks and I think I've taken all of them on my usual BAL/NYP trip, yet this one was marked the NE Regional. It's all fine & I'll buy a ticket for any of these as long as I get where I'm going. They're all the same to me in that respect. (I do remember that the Carolinian served us a complimentary breakfast, though, and I really appreciated that.)

You're train is not the Vermonter or it's consist. See my post above. There are several regionals that server VA. 186 is one of them.

 

[zephyr17]

What I don't quite understand is that the Vermonter, Carolinian, Silver Star/Meteor etc. also use the same tracks and I think I've taken all of them on my usual BAL/NYP trip, yet this one was marked the NE Regional.

What tracks would you expect them to use for service between Washington, Philadelphia, New York, New Haven and Boston?

Just because parts of those trains routes are not over the NEC doesn't mean they can or should use a different route to serve NEC points.

Different trains can have different consists and amenities, despite the fact that they share parts of their routes. 65/66/67, while labeled NE Regional, have always been a bit different from the rest of the NE Regionals, at times carrying sleeping cars and baggage cars as well as different BC cars. They no longer turn exclusively in that service today. That 65 turns as 186, as @AmtrakBlue noted, pretty much explains the variance in BC.

 

[BALtoNYPtraveler]

What tracks would you expect them to use for service between Washington, Philadelphia, New York, New Haven and Boston?

Of course I would not expect them to use different tracks - no intelligent person would, so that should tip you off that you simply didn't understand what I was musing there. Here it is, since I might not have been very clear: I thought someone said those cafe/business combo cars are found on the Vermonter (maybe I read quickly & read wrong) (and indeed I've never seen them on the NE Regional), so I was wondering why they didn't just call it the Vermonter if they're using the Vermonter train to take a NE Regional itinerary. I might be misunderstanding all of it, though - being an expert on what cars they attach or use for what routes isn't something I want to become an expert on, and it isn't particularly important to me. Like I said, it could be the Mars/Venus regional and I'd take it if it stops in the stations I need.

Oh, and I also don't know what "turns as" means. What does it mean? That I am interested to know.

 

[MARC Rider]

I ride the Vermonter fairly regularly when I ride from Baltimore to Philly or New York. It's a nice morning departure, not too early but early enough to give me a decent amount of time at my destination.

 

[zephyr17]

"Turns as" means the consist serving as a given train is serviced and goes back as another. In the case of the former "Night Owl", 65/66/67, the consists were captive to that service, so 65/67's consists were turned at Washington as 66 and not some other regional. Now, since 66 originates in Roanoke and 65/67 terminate in Newport News, that patten has been changed, and AmtrakBlue noted what the turns of 65/66/67 are now.

As to the rest of your question, train names/numbers are not determined by what equipment make up their consists for any given run, but by the schedules they run and the stations they serve. If a consist that ordinarily runs as a Vermonter, or one that looks like a Vermonter, is pressed into service as an NE Regional for some reason, it will have a NE Regional train number and name. It isn't a Vermonter "train", it is a consist used ordinarily as a Vermonter. If it isn't running the Vermonter's schedule, it isn’t a Vermonter.

As it stands, I still say you have a 65 turning as 186, with 65 having "Night Owl" type consist including an Amfleet cafe/BC car. Both trains are branded as Northeast Regionals. While most NE Regionals run the same consists, there is no rule demanding that be so. 65/66/67 have always had different consists from the other Regionals and now the trains they turn as do as well.

I'd be interested in what the equipment rotation is since 65/67 terminates in Newport News and 66 originates at Roanoke. I could probably deduce a likely one by examing NE Regionals schedules, but am not so interested as to bother. Also, since 65/66/67 temporarily terminate/originate at New York, I wonder what the rotation will be once they are extended back to Boston in the Fall.

 

[BALtoNYPtraveler]

Thank you for explaining all that. I think I instinctively knew the number refers to the route and time more so than the actual train cars (I assume that's what "consist" means.) But I had not put much thought into it. Then I got confused when I thought someone said that's a Vermonter car. It's all good now, though.

 

[Septa9739]

Amtrak announced today new Thruway Connections from Worcester (WOR), New Bedford (NWF), and Fall River (FAV) to PVD. There are three connections daily to and from the south. No service is bookable to or from the north and busses cannot be booked alone. Tickets seem to be about $30 a head. It's good to seem Amtrak still looking for ways to push up ridership despite heavy volume and large crowds on the NEC as well as serve smaller communities.

 

[Acela150]

Train 187 is coming back effective Sept. 11. 190 is having its timing adjusted. 66/65/67 are coming back all the way as well with massive layover time in NYP.

 

[Septa9739]

187 is good news. I was amazed how quickly those first later evening trains filled up once they were returned. Does anyone know why 65/66/67 have that long layover. It already was a very long layover.

 

[west point]

187 is good news. I was amazed how quickly those first later evening trains filled up once they were returned. Does anyone know why 65/66/67 have that long layover. It already was a very long layover.

Historically at one time both trains when at NYP exchanged sleeping cars terminating / originating NYP for both BOS and WASH. Cars had to be switched out of early boardings and terminating cars switched to those tracks for late persons getting off the sleepers.

 

[daybeers]

That doesn't explain the absurd decision to extend the already long layover in NYP, while moving up the departure time from BOS. both BOS-NYP and BOS-WAS passengers are in a losing situation.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Train 187 is coming back effective Sept. 11. 190 is having its timing adjusted. 66/65/67 are coming back all the way as well with massive layover time in NYP.

The Layover @ NYP for 66/65/67 is an abomination as all who have expierienced it know!

 

[jis]

https://media.amtrak.com/2023/08/providence-bus-service/

 

[Acela150]

The Layover @ NYP for 66/65/67 is an abomination as all who have expierienced it know!

I believe that the reason that the layover will be longer now is continuing work on the hell gate line which is currently Single Tracking causing many trains to be delayed coming from the Mets to NYP.

 

[blueman271]

https://media.amtrak.com/2023/08/providence-bus-service/

In another change, Amtrak has started selling tickets on SLE as part of connecting itineraries from New London heading south (west). They involve a connection in New Haven and are priced slightly more than a through Regional. I have never seen this before.

 

[joelkfla]

He wants to take a day trip to DC from NYC. Can you give him suggestions for DC?

Actually, he wanted to take a trip to DC. The OP was last autumn.

 

[BlackDiamond]

The Layover @ NYP for 66/65/67 is an abomination as all who have expierienced it know!

It might be tolerable if they brought back the sleeper as then you just sleep through it, without the banging and lurching of a moving train (although for some they might find that movement an aid to sleep)