Acela150
Super Buff
They raised PHL-BOS again?? WHYYYYYYYYY!!!! :help: :help:
Northeast Regional or Acela
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amamba
Engineer
I know, high bucket BOS - PHl will now set one back $250. :angry:
There may be a higher percentage of passengers on the Acela using internet connections, but there is likely to be a higher percentage using their own 3G/4G hookup, paid for by their business, to get on the net.
Another consideration is that the Acela carries a maximum of 304 passengers. An NE Regional with, for example, 6 coach cars (6 * 72 seats) and a business class car (62 seats) can carry 494 passengers. That is a lot more people potentially using the single WiFi server connection on the Regional. In my experience, WiFi access can slow to a crawl on either the Acela or the Regional when the train is close to full. It is up to the cell phone service providers to boost 3G/4G capacity along the route of the NEC.
Alright, though I omitted it, I'm now going to include a batch of Acela and Regional pairs in my list. Probably WAS-NYP, NYP-BOS, and WAS-BOS for both...as well as NPN-WAS, RVR-WAS, and LYH-WAS on the Regional for personal interest.
Excerpt from the Amtrak March 2012 Monthly report comments on the ridership and revenue for the NEC: "Northeast Regional
travel in the endpoint markets of NY-Boston (+32%) and NY-DC (+16%) was strong in March. The top markets through New York including Boston-Philadelphia (+90%) and Philadelphia-Providence (+84%) were up significantly due to a drop in airline service."
Welcome to revenue maximization management!
Acela150
Super Buff
WHHHATTT!! Just wait till Thanksgiving weekend where buckets are maxed out by ARROW. ARROW will push the buckets beyond the normal highest bucket to make that money!
Good solid numbers. I'm interested to see what the Regional High Bucket is. I know SW Airlines dropped there PHL-BOS area service. SW air was always the air carrier of choice to go to the Boston area now it seems Amtrak is the way to go.Excerpt from the Amtrak March 2012 Monthly report comments on the ridership and revenue for the NEC: "Northeast Regional
travel in the endpoint markets of NY-Boston (+32%) and NY-DC (+16%) was strong in March. The top markets through New York including Boston-Philadelphia (+90%) and Philadelphia-Providence (+84%) were up significantly due to a drop in airline service."
Welcome to revenue maximization management!
WAS-NYP (Acela)
Bucket 1: $145
Bucket 2: $169
Bucket 3: $194
Bucket 4: $218
Bucket 5: $242
First Class: $109 additional
WAS-NYP (Regional)
Bucket E: $49
Bucket 1: $80
Bucket 2: $113
Bucket 3: $136
Bucket 4: $153
Business Class: $40 additional
WAS-BOS (Acela)
Bucket 1: $163
Bucket 2: $190
Bucket 3: $217
Bucket 4: $244
Bucket 5: $271
First Class: $122 additional
WAS-BOS (Regional)
Bucket E: $70
Bucket 1: $96
Bucket 2: $137
Bucket 3: $165
Bucket 4: $185
Business Class: $48 additional
NYP-BOS (Acela)
Bucket 1: $104
Bucket 2: $121
Bucket 3: $138
Bucket 4: $156
Bucket 5: $173
First Class: $78 additional
NYP-BOS (Regional)
Bucket E: $49
Bucket 1: $69
Bucket 2: $98
Bucket 3: $118
Bucket 4: $133
Business Class: $35 additional
Note: These were all pulled from the next 3-5 days, and should therefore not include any "special" fares.
Bucket 1: $145
Bucket 2: $169
Bucket 3: $194
Bucket 4: $218
Bucket 5: $242
First Class: $109 additional
WAS-NYP (Regional)
Bucket E: $49
Bucket 1: $80
Bucket 2: $113
Bucket 3: $136
Bucket 4: $153
Business Class: $40 additional
WAS-BOS (Acela)
Bucket 1: $163
Bucket 2: $190
Bucket 3: $217
Bucket 4: $244
Bucket 5: $271
First Class: $122 additional
WAS-BOS (Regional)
Bucket E: $70
Bucket 1: $96
Bucket 2: $137
Bucket 3: $165
Bucket 4: $185
Business Class: $48 additional
NYP-BOS (Acela)
Bucket 1: $104
Bucket 2: $121
Bucket 3: $138
Bucket 4: $156
Bucket 5: $173
First Class: $78 additional
NYP-BOS (Regional)
Bucket E: $49
Bucket 1: $69
Bucket 2: $98
Bucket 3: $118
Bucket 4: $133
Business Class: $35 additional
Note: These were all pulled from the next 3-5 days, and should therefore not include any "special" fares.
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amamba
Engineer
Anderson, I think you should also pull the "E" bucket fares for the NEC. These are the ones that are available with a 14 day advance purchase and are pretty common to get if you book in advance. That fare is $49 BOS - NYP.
And I should note that Southwest DID abolish their PVD - PHL service earlier this year - which is when I noticed that it was impossible find a low bucket acela ticket from BOS - PHL.
And I should note that Southwest DID abolish their PVD - PHL service earlier this year - which is when I noticed that it was impossible find a low bucket acela ticket from BOS - PHL.
NETrainfan
Lead Service Attendant
The high cost of the Acela- I noted-was for Thanksgiving week. Is that the highest of all during the year?
It is, though I would note that sometimes a fare of the high bucket plus the FC charge may appear if BC is sold out.
A number of Acelas this weekend are running top bucket (or are sold out), for example, and those top bucket prices often show up at peak commuting hours as well. A note would be that, for example, the 2PM, 3 PM, and 4 PM Acelas out of WAS are already at $242 to NYP (I have to go into late July to find trains at those times for less than $200 on a Friday, and the 4 PM Acela on July 25 is already at $242 as well). Basically, at peak hours at present, Amtrak can probably average $200 or so per available seat on the Acela WAS-NYP.
The price difference between the WAS-NYP and NYP-BOS segments show how demand driven the pricing now is. It also highlights the faster the trip, the more Amtrak can charge per mile. Useful to see the bucket price comparisons laid out in a single list. If Amtrak were able to achieve 3:15 NYP-BOS or had been able to reach the long sought 3 hour NYP-BOS trip time, they would be charging more for the NYP-BOS Acelas and making more money off of the Acelas.
Agreed. At peak hours, I think the Acelas could reach RASM of over $1 on the southern leg...but good luck getting too far over $.60 on the northern leg. It's actually a shame that Amtrak couldn't dedicate the 40 cars to the southern leg in some fashion, considering the demand picture there.
Texan Eagle
Conductor
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Just for fun I decided to check out one-way flight fares between these city pairs and this is how the lowest available fares stack up-
Its interesting how dollar-to-dollar Amtrak is costlier than flying on all three sectors but still the passengers prefer train over planes. I guess the extra time and money spent in getting to and from airports tilts the scales in favor of Amtrak.
$65 on Delta and United on different days. DCA-LGA, DCA-JFK, IAD-LGA, IAD-JFK. All combinations not available on all days
$60 on US Airways. DCA-BOS.
$60 on Delta and American. JFK-BOS, but if you are traveling after September. For closer dates its $72 available 14 days in advance.
Its interesting how dollar-to-dollar Amtrak is costlier than flying on all three sectors but still the passengers prefer train over planes. I guess the extra time and money spent in getting to and from airports tilts the scales in favor of Amtrak.
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Amtrak does not have a significant share of the air/rail market between WAS and BOS. For that city pair, the rail trip length is well over the tipping point.
Well, on NYP-BOS per your note, low-bucket Regionals are cheaper for the trips within a few weeks. Also, per your note on WAS-BOS:
-Getting to Dulles is a hassle (it's a ways out of town to the west, and traffic in DC is not always cooperative);
-It's quite possible that you could, in theory, get stuck with a flight one way involving Dulles and the other way involving National, leaving you with an "interesting" car situation;
-For many trips, taking the Metro to Union Station is going to be cheaper than parking at either airport; and
-What are the refund/exchange policies on those airline tickets again? I highly doubt that you're going to get fares that low and 100% exchangability/90% refundability (or 100% pre-printing refundability).
To throw a hypothetical out there, let's do a three-day trip from DC to NYC. Assume a $5 charge getting to/from Union Station in DC (i.e. a mid-cost round trip on the Metro, with transfers available at low cost in many cases). Now, even ignoring the cost of getting to Dulles, that's $30 or so in the economy lot or $51 in the non-economy lot (which involves a shuttle). Right there, you're out a net of $25 to $46. That puts the cost of a cheap WAS-NYP fare up to $90-111 at the airport vs. $85 for the Regional without the special offer. For WAS-BOS, it's $101 for Amtrak vs. $90-111 for the airport. At National, the numbers get even worse (add $6 for the economy lot cost and $9 for the regular lots, for $36/60).
Moreover...how many fares exist at those low rates (and yes, that's a serious question...I don't know)?
-Getting to Dulles is a hassle (it's a ways out of town to the west, and traffic in DC is not always cooperative);
-It's quite possible that you could, in theory, get stuck with a flight one way involving Dulles and the other way involving National, leaving you with an "interesting" car situation;
-For many trips, taking the Metro to Union Station is going to be cheaper than parking at either airport; and
-What are the refund/exchange policies on those airline tickets again? I highly doubt that you're going to get fares that low and 100% exchangability/90% refundability (or 100% pre-printing refundability).
To throw a hypothetical out there, let's do a three-day trip from DC to NYC. Assume a $5 charge getting to/from Union Station in DC (i.e. a mid-cost round trip on the Metro, with transfers available at low cost in many cases). Now, even ignoring the cost of getting to Dulles, that's $30 or so in the economy lot or $51 in the non-economy lot (which involves a shuttle). Right there, you're out a net of $25 to $46. That puts the cost of a cheap WAS-NYP fare up to $90-111 at the airport vs. $85 for the Regional without the special offer. For WAS-BOS, it's $101 for Amtrak vs. $90-111 for the airport. At National, the numbers get even worse (add $6 for the economy lot cost and $9 for the regular lots, for $36/60).
Moreover...how many fares exist at those low rates (and yes, that's a serious question...I don't know)?
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Unless I missed it, no one's posted a claim that WAS-BOS has seen a surge in ridership. There are significant convenience advantages of the train for NYP-BOS and NYP-WAS: a midtown arrival, a suburban station at each end, and reasonable travel times.
I'll bet the air and rail fares track each other pretty well when comparing apples-to-apples: day of week, time of day, holiday peak periods, and advance purchase.
P.S. The actual bucket codes, low to high, for Regional are E, D, B, A and full (Y). For Acela, D, C, B, A, and full (J).
I'll bet the air and rail fares track each other pretty well when comparing apples-to-apples: day of week, time of day, holiday peak periods, and advance purchase.
P.S. The actual bucket codes, low to high, for Regional are E, D, B, A and full (Y). For Acela, D, C, B, A, and full (J).
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If someone could take the Metro to Union Station, why would they have to drive to National Airport? Metro stops there as well.
Ok, that's actually my bad. I knew there was a stop at Crystal City, and I thought people were just talking about going from there to the airport (which seemed like a bit of a hike) or from another station in that strip in Alexandria along Route 1, not a station more or less within the airport. I'd never seen that stop personally (I've been through National a few times in the past), and while I've been on the Metro many times, I've rarely had any reason to look on the southern side of the map (usually I'm going from WAUS to Potomac, MD)/
Ozark Southern
Lead Service Attendant
Yep, National Airport is one stop south of Crystal City on blue/yellow lines. It's right at one of the terminals (forget which one; it's been about 15 years since I've flown to DCA).
Ok, so National may be convenient if your flight leaves from there. The big problem, as far as I can tell, is going to be getting to Dulles (which from the center of DC is about 35-40 minutes in good traffic, but knowing DC traffic...allow 1:15 or more near rush hour). If you're coming from the eastern side of the DC area, just start adding time (IIRC, part of the justification for building one highway in MD was trouble accessing Dulles from the northern suburbs).
Also, I'm just wondering, but what were the lowest fares from BWI? That seems relevant since BWI isn't too much further from DC proper, and because once you get east of town, it's far closer.
Also, I'm just wondering, but what were the lowest fares from BWI? That seems relevant since BWI isn't too much further from DC proper, and because once you get east of town, it's far closer.
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Getting to and from Dulles (IAD) is not fun. There is a Metro/bus option, but as soon as you add a connection and shuttle, it makes the trip much less convenient. For that reason, National (DCA), located close to central Washington and on the Metro, has always been preferred for short hops over IAD.
BWI is great for those living in the Maryland DC burbs, plus it is "hub" for Southwest, so fares are good. (Southwest does not concede to having hubs, but if it quacks like a duck...)
In an earlier post, you mentioned about the possibility of being booked out of one Washington airport and back into another. It is pretty unlikely that someone would do this on purpose, but I sure know it can happen by accident. My daughter used to live in the DC area, and she booked a trip to visit a friend out west. As is our habit, she e-mailed me her confirmation a couple of days before leaving. Oh oh. She was outbound from IAD, and inbound into DCA. I gave her a call, and she was not a happy camper. She had simply searched from "Washington DC." Oops. Since her outbound flight was early morning, she drove to IAD, and when she got back, she did the DCA-IAD Metro-bus shuffle.
Texan Eagle
Conductor
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BWI-JFK $91 on Delta
BWI-BOS $62 on AirTran
I checked all fares on Google Flights. This site has a neat feature that shows the lowest fares for every day for a period of 3-4 months as a bar graph. The lowest fares I quoted are available on plenty of days, sometimes on only one flight, sometimes on multiple flights per day. This is not any different from Amtrak, where the low bucket fares may or may not be available on the day one wants to travel.
Edit: Google Flights does not pull up results from Southwest, checked those separately. Turns out Southwest offers exact same lowest fares- $91 to LGA (not JFK), and $62 to BOS.
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