NY Strike & Amtrak

[Guest]

I'm surprised I haven't seen any stories poking around here yet about the situation in NYC. It really is kind of ironic that the unions there have been without a contract for less than a day, and are on strike -- whereas Amtrak crews have been working without a contract for how long?

Is Amtrak changing their plans around this event? Letting the commuters borrow equipment, or running any special trains?

What is life like in NYC at penn station right now?

 

[battalion51]

I highly doubt Amtrak is altering their operation too terribly much, they might be helping to carry passengers in from the Metro North Lines since MN is running specials between GCT and 125th. Other than that the only thing I could see them doing is advising passengers to arrive early. Alan could probably field this best since he's in Queens.

 

[Viewliner]

Chaotic, it was divided into sections for the LIRR with different enterances used for different destinations. Only the 34th street ticket windows were open, so news reports stated that lines lasted an hour or more just for tickets. Then people had to re-exit and wait in line for their train. NJT and Amtrak are relatively unaffected.

 

[AMTRAK-P42]

From the Amtrak webpage:

New York City Transit Strike Not Affecting Amtrak Trains
Amtrak operations are currently unaffected by the New York City Transit strike. Amtrak trains are operating normally to and from New York Penn Station. Passengers departing Penn Station this afternoon and early evening are encouraged to give themselves a little extra time in getting to the station, as commuters are taking advantage of extra Long Island Rail Road trains that are running to mitigate the strike’s impact, resulting in conditions that may be more crowded than normal in the station.

 

[AlanB]

Chaotic, it was divided into sections for the LIRR with different enterances used for different destinations. Only the 34th street ticket windows were open, so news reports stated that lines lasted an hour or more just for tickets. Then people had to re-exit and wait in line for their train. NJT and Amtrak are relatively unaffected.

There are no 34th street ticket windows at Penn station. One had to enter through the 34th street entrance and proceed to the normal ticket windows, in order to buy tickets for the LIRR.

Then as Viewliner noted, one had to exit the building and get on 1 of 4 lines depending on your destination. The ticket line wait was well over one hour, and the actual train lines at one point were pushing 2 hours.

Keep in mind however that part of the problem is the fact that the LIRR was not yet running the special Penn to Jamiaca shuttles. Basically they were only running normal service. Starting tomorrow there will be special trains that only serve Queens and Manhattan.

It's really a shame at this point that the East Side Acess is not up and running, as that would have allowed people to also reach Grand Central via the LIRR.

NJT and Amtrak were unaffected, other than higher ridership on NJT and the fact that you could not use certain entrances into Penn.

 

[AlanB]

I'm surprised I haven't seen any stories poking around here yet about the situation in NYC.  It really is kind of ironic that the unions there have been without a contract for less than a day, and are on strike -- whereas Amtrak crews have been working without a contract for how long?

Actually it's been 5 days since the old contract expired, but still your point is well taken and quite valid. The NYC teachers went without a contract for over a year, yet didn't feel the need to strike, much less walk away from the talks. The NYC Police, or maybe it was the firemen I'm not sure, went over 2 years without a contract and they didn't feel the need to strike either.

Even the International TWU has told the local not to strike!

And just to be clear, in this state it is illegal for the union to stike under any circumstances. They are all in violation of the law and a court order to return to work. Just today the judge enacted fines of $1 million per day from the union. The union only has about 3.5 million in assets, so they will be bankrupt before the week is over.

Starting tomorrow, the judge will impose fines on the union leaders and he may well level fines against each union member out on strike. The fines for the union members would be two days pay for each day they strike.

The MTA has upped it's offer majorly 3 different times this week. The union basically has not changed any of its demands. They made a few minor concessions, but overall the MTA has made far more substantial changes in its offering, than the union has in its demands.

Is Amtrak changing their plans around this event?  Letting the commuters borrow equipment, or running any special trains?

Neither the LIRR or Metro North can really use Amtrak equipment, since both run on 3rd rail power, while most of Amtrak's equipment runs on catenary. Amtrak cars are not compatable with either RR's MU's. Amtrak does have a few engines that run on 3rd rail, but they really can't spare them. Plus, only Grand Central has extra capacity available to take more trains. Penn Station is basically maxed out on both platforms and tunnel capacity.

NJT could use Amtrak equipment, but again there is no extra capacity in the Hudson River tunnels. Plus at least today, NJT wasn't too overloaded anyhow.

I'm aware of no change in plans by Amtrak, but I suppose that it is possible that they have seen an increase in ridership on the Boston to NY segment, with some Metro North passengers boarding Amtrak to be further downtown than they would be at Grand Central. However, those passengers will have to buy Amtrak tickets. Amtrak is not accepting MN tickets.

 

[AlanB]

Two more interesting items that have surfaced with regard to the strike:

One, over 1,000 union members did report for work yesterday, crossing the picket lines.

Two, while no one has as yet gone on record publicly a few reporters are saying that they've been told privately by a few members of the TWU local 100 board, that union President Roger Toussaint withheld some parts of the MTA's last offer on Monday night. They are saying that had he revealed to them the full package that the MTA had offered, that they would not have voted for a strike.

Now that could just be an attempt by them to avoid getting fined by the judge today or it could be an indication that there is problems and/or dissension in the ranks.

 

[battalion51]

You know I have to wonder how crossing the picket lines are going to be viewed by the MTA workers. "Scabbing" is something that's taken very seriously by some guys. I know that there are still people within Amtrak's Engineer ranks that won't work with "scabs" from the previous strike, way back in the day.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

If in fact relevant offer details were withheld from the rank and file pre-vote, then I wouldn't think that anybody would have a problem, because if that was the case, basically the rank and file were scammed by their own union leader.

 

[Midland Valley]

It sounds like the union leader might have some problems to deal with.

 

[AlanB]

It sounds like the union leader might have some problems to deal with.

Well even without that possible issue of his having withheld info from the union, the union leader has some big problems to deal with tomorrow.

The judge has ordered him to appear in court first thing tomorrow. Almost certainly he'll personally be fined big time and the judge has hinted that he may well be jailed. If he fails to show up in court, he will definately be put in jail.

And the striking workers may well have some new worries on a personel level. Already they are being fined 2 days pay for each day on strike, monies that unless overturned by a higher court, will be deducted from their paychecks once they do return to work. However, the judge is also considering tomorrow two additional punishments. One would be imposing a $25,000 per day fine on each worker.

The other thing he's considering is freezing each striking employee's bank accounts. This would leave all striking workers with no way to pay for anything, including food, except via credit. And once they are unable to pay their credit cards, even that option won't be availble to them.

The news is also reporting that 1,800 workers reported for work today, up 800 from yesterday. So yet another nail in Roger's coffin.

 

[Guest]

I think it was CBS that did a great job reporting on this "militaristic" union.

I must say that I am now very much behind them. The main sticking point seems to be pensions. I'm a young guy, I know I need to start saving for myself -- because pensions are a vanishing thing. But if I was 53 and they pushed my retirment ahead 7 years, I would sure as hell be out there walking with them. Changing the rules in the middle of the game just aint fair -- And striking is the unions only real bargaining chip.

It's a shame the public service sector is getting screwed over as bad as every other sector now. What next, every employee is a 6 month contract employee so that they don't have to worry about pensions or benefits. I'm already in that hellish boat.

 

[LIRailfan79]

from what i heard i was under the impression that any changes to the pension plan would apply only to new employees. so if you are 53 nothing will actually change for you.

which is why it is so odd that they are fighting so hard for something that won't even affect them.

 

[PRR 60]

I think it was CBS that did a great job reporting on this "militaristic" union.
I must say that I am now very much behind them.  The main sticking point seems to be pensions.  I'm a young guy, I know I need to start saving for myself -- because pensions are a vanishing thing.  But if I was 53 and they pushed my retirment ahead 7 years, I would sure as hell be out there walking with them.  Changing the rules in the middle of the game just aint fair -- And striking is the unions only real bargaining chip.  

It's a shame the public service sector is getting screwed over as bad as every other sector now.  What next, every employee is a 6 month contract employee so that they don't have to worry about pensions or benefits.  I'm already in that hellish boat.

First, this would not affect any current employee. The pension change is for new hires only, so not one person would see their retirement date change. Second, exactly how many people can get full retirement at age 55?

MTA workers get paid more and have better benefits than NYC teachers, firefighters, and police. I should be as "screwed over" as those poor, downtrodden MTA workers. Fine them and jail them for breaking the law. I would show no mercy.

 

[AlanB]

PRR60 & LIRailfan are correct, the proposed pension plan changes do not affect any current employee. The changes would only affect future new hires.

Furthermore, the MTA actually proposed a second choice to the union, which they also thumbed their noses at. Instead of changing the retirement age for new hires, the MTA proposed leaving the retirement age as is. However, as a condition of that all new hires would have to contribute 6% of their salary for the first ten years of employment to the pension fund. Current workers have to pay 2% for their first 10 years, about $1,000 per year, then nothing.

That simple change would have meant that the average new hire would have needed to pay about $1,800 more a year for their first 10 years or about $2,800 per year. After that, they would pay nothing and still get a full pension at age 55.

But again, just to repeat, neither proposal the increased percentage or the change in age at retirement, would have affected anyone currently walking the picket line.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

Roger Tosaint said from beginning he would not negotiate anything away for new employees. yes highest paid motorman makes $60k but Roger also negotiates for coach cleaners etc making $30k at full rate.

starting salaries for MTA are 70 % with 5% increases per year. so new employees would start at 64% of $30k not nearly ennough for NYC job market.

Remember these are not 9-5 jobs but starting at all kind of hours snow or rain or sleet you got to be there.

 

[AlanB]

Now just to put a bit of perspective on this, I'm going to do a bit of a comparison.

The average MTA worker makes between $47,000 and $55,000 per year working for the MTA. They pay $11,000 maximum, towards their retirement, yet receive full pay at the highest salary they earned when they retire at age 55. They pay nothing towards their health care. Except for 1 year out of the last 20, they've always had a raise.

My wife who works for a New York based retail chain as an assistant store manager makes $48,500 per year. She's had no raise in two years and will be lucky to get 2% next year. Pays $1,440 a year for her health care, and that's before her $30 co-pay for any actual doctors visit. She gets no pension, only a 401K that is totally paid for by deductions from her check and she can't retire until she's 62 and then will only get social security which will not even come close to her current salary.

So now thanks to the strike, in addition to her six day a week work schedule normal for management at many stores during the Christmas season, she's now working 12 to 13 hours per day. Why, because too many of her employees can't get to work thanks to the strike.

I don't begrudge people trying to make a living a support their families, but this union has gone way over the top with their demmands, I'm sorry. Many innocent people are going broke because they can't get to their jobs, while these guys are out on an illegal strike. A strike not authorized by the parent union, which has even put a message on their website telling the MTA workers to stop striking and return to their jobs.

And they are on strike because they don't want some newly hired employee to have to pay an extra $1,800 a year for 10 years, so that they can retire on full salary 7 years before 80% of the rest of the population. Their other choice was to have new hires retire at the normal age for the vast majority of the population. But they did have a choice and it's not a choice that affects anyone on the picket line, only new hires.

Meanwhile those less fortunate than the union members are spending their last dollars, walking for miles, and wasting uncounted hours trying to get to their jobs. Ask me who I have sympathy for.

 

[AlanB]

Roger Tosaint said from beginning he would not negotiate anything away for new employees. yes highest paid motorman makes $60k but Roger also negotiates for coach cleaners etc making $30k at full rate.starting salaries for MTA are 70 % with 5% increases per year. so new employees would start at 64% of $30k not nearly ennough for NYC job market.

Remember these are not 9-5 jobs but starting at all kind of hours snow or rain or sleet you got to be there.

Roger can say whatever he wants, but the reality is that these are negotiations. Roger has not proposed anything to the MTA, yet he accuses them of not negotiating fairly. He's stood by his 8% over three years steadfastly through the negotiations.

If he doesn't want to sell out new hires, then he should have come up with some counter offer. I can think of several, things like moving everyone's retirement age back 1 year to 53, or increasing the contribution % for everyone by 1 or 2 percent. Yet Roger has not proposed anything. That's not negotiating!

Furthermore, as I've already stated, he does not have a strike that's sanctioned by his parent union. He's called for an illegal strike. Teachers, police, fire, even MetroNorth employee's have all gone far longer than 5 days from the expiration of their contracts without striking.

And while I feel for those who may make $30k and I'm not even sure if that number is correct, but I'll take your word for it, again they are still getting all those benefits I mentioned above. There are thousands of people in this city making that same amount or less, without any of those benefits. Those people are now wasting their hard earned money just trying to reach their jobs. Money that they can't afford to spend. Most can barely afford the 4 bucks a day for the subway. And by the way, those MTA workers don't even have to pay to get to work, they get free passes.

And none of this changes the fact that this strike is against the law.

 

[AmtrakFan]

You know I have to wonder how crossing the picket lines are going to be viewed by the MTA workers. "Scabbing" is something that's taken very seriously by some guys. I know that there are still people within Amtrak's Engineer ranks that won't work with "scabs" from the previous strike, way back in the day.

That was in 1988 I think it was.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

1988 sounds about right to me.

I sort of side-stepped around it myself on a trip to NYC. I think they went on strike as my Crescent took me north from Atlanta but they finished the run. Then I think my Silver Meteor to Charleston was the first train out of there when the strike ended, so, as I recall, my own plans were not actually affected.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

Allan yes its against the law, so is driving over 55mph;-)

and lots of stuff we do in our daily life is against the law.

btw here is letter send to newspaper but it probably will never be published.

This letter was sent to the NY post by a track worker...

Dear Ms. Peyser,

I am a transit worker and for the first time in my 18 year career, proud

to be a member of the TWU.

Let me also say that I am a regular reader of your column and agree with

you most of the time but the hammering this union and its members are

taking by the print, radio and television media is grossly unfair.

How infantile is it of our two top elected officials to resort to name

calling? We, the TWU and its members are not the bad guys here. We are

only asking for a fair contract. I certainly do not want to strike and I

am sorry that my wife and friends have been greatly inconvenienced along

with the millions of other New Yorkers. I can NOT afford to be out of

work.

Setting aside the conspiracy of the governor and mayor to again pick on

this union in order to set up the other unions for defeats at the

bargaining tables, especially in regards to pensions, Ms. Peyser, as a

woman, are you not offended that this agency does NOT offer maternity

leave? That if a woman has a baby, she must use her sick time. Don't you

get maternity leave at your job?

Do you get Martin Luther King Jr's Birthday off? Doesn't just about this

entire country get it off to celebrate this man's legacy and contribution

to society and isn't it shameful as you consider the act of justified

defiance (she illegally broke the law too) of Rosa Parks - on a bus no

less - that we, the largest urban transit union in the country, whose

majority people group is African American, does not get to celebrate the

birthday of the chief protagonist in the civil rights movement?

These are only side issues of which there are many.....................

Let's consider something smaller. Do you have access to a restroom at

your job at the New York Post? I imagine the answer is yes and you

probably don't have to walk more than 100 feet to use the bathroom. I

work in the subway tunnels along with thousands others. Do you think I

have access to a restroom when I am working between stations and all of a

sudden have the urge to go? If, IF, I am lucky, there will be an

operating toilet in the station that I will have to walk thousands of

feet to. It's up to us to "go" at our quarters before we start our work

and then hope that something doesn't kick in while we are on the job. Oh,

did I mention that most of the restrooms designated for employees in the

subways are overrun with rats and/or leaky plumbing? Would restroom

conditions like this at the New York Post offend you? I imagine it would.

Ms. Peyser, with the utmost of respect to New York's Finest and Bravest,

who in my opinion are grossly underpaid to keep you and I safe as they

willingly sacrifice their bodies in their jobs - do you not consider the

worth of the bodily sacrifices our membership have made "just" to get you

from point A to point B? Those who work on the subway tracks, work "under

traffic", that is, as trains are whizzing by less than a foot from our

body AND while we are standing next to a live third rail that is carrying

600 volts of direct current. I myself have been jolted a number of times

in the course of my job and it is NOT a good feeling (to put it mildly)

but then again, unlike some others I have known personally, I have gotten

off the tracks alive. But by the time I retire at the young age of 55 (I

mean, I've been reading how everyone envies us for retiring at such a

young age), I will be pretty much crippled with bad knees, bad back and

bad shoulder from years of carrying heavy equipment and tools to maintain

and replace rails and ties that weigh hundreds to thousands of pounds so

you can travel to YOUR job safely and efficiently.

So please Ms Peyser, please do not consider us thugs or greedy or

selfish as Mayor Mike says. I only make $50,000 gross after 18 years on

this job and that barely qualifies as lower middle class in NYC and after

the taxes (not to mention utilities and gas and other escalating costs of

living ) I have to pay for the privilege of living in this city, I barely

get by. But I'm thankful for this job and I do love my job. And I always

tell people to take the civil service tests because even though the money

is not great, the job is secure, the benefits are good and we are

guaranteed a pension, at least until the government figures out a way to

get their greedy little hands on it like the private sector CEOs have

done to their employees.

I will not take the time to remind you of past contract years when the

MTA has cried poverty at the bargaining table and then within days of

negotiating an unfair contract with the TWU, "suddenly" finds an abundant

excess of money. Nor will I remind you of the last contract battle in

2002, when again the MTA cried poverty and we accepted a 6% wage increase

over 3 years (we're not keeping up with the cost of living here!) with 0%

the first year and then after that contract was negotiated and signed,

Alan Hevesi found a second set of accounting books showing more favorable

figures for the MTA.

The MTA shows a complete lack of respect and appreciation for the

working men and women of the TWU.

And that's what we're fighting for.

Sincerely,

Gary Glover

Trackworker and proud TWU member!

 

[battalion51]

Very well written letter, really brings a lot of things to light that the average American doesn't see on the surface.

 

[haolerider]

I would agree that it is a well written letter, but I can't have much sympathy with someone who is not paying their fair share of medical costs, doesn't want to pay toward their own retirement for their full work life and can't get it through their heads that they can improve their situation through hard work and an attempt to move up the ladder. There is nothing wrong with carrying heavy equipment and working hard, but there are plently of people who have used that as a starting point and improved their positions..........maybe even going into management!

In my humble opinion, unions have outlived their usefulness and are killing american business with their demands for continued increases and more and more benefits. Management has not helped either with their constant "feeding at the corporate trough".

 

[AlanB]

Allan yes its against the law, so is driving over 55mph;-)and lots of stuff we do in our daily life is against the law.

btw here is letter send to newspaper but it probably will never be published.

Yes, you are correct. And when you drive over 55 mph, you run the risk of real penalties in the form of a speeding ticket and higher insurance rates. You also risk the possible loss of your insurance and your drivers license if you get caught speeding too many times.

So now the workers involved in the illegal strike will have their penatly to pay, 2 days wages for each day that they were on strike. That is automatic under the law and AFAIK there is no appeal for it. The union may be able to knock down their $1 million a day fines with their appeal, but I'm pretty sure that they will still get fined something and personally I think that it should remain substantial, if not at the $1M per day level.

So with the strike now over for the moment, the union leadership has cost their membership dearly for this illegal strike.

By the way, knowingly violating the law like in your example is one thing. Being handed a court order that informs you that you cannot strike is vastly different. In addition to doing something illegal, the union leadership is also in contempt of court. In fact Roger's quite lucky that he's not already in jail for having torn up that court order publicly on TV. The judge could have thrown him in jail just for that action alone.

 

[battalion51]

I would agree that it is a well written letter, but I can't have much sympathy with someone who is not paying their fair share of medical costs, doesn't want to pay toward their own retirement for their full work life and can't get it through their heads that they can improve their situation through hard work and an attempt to move up the ladder. There is nothing wrong with carrying heavy equipment and working hard, but there are plently of people who have used that as a starting point and improved their positions..........maybe even going into management!
In my humble opinion, unions have outlived their usefulness and are killing american business with their demands for continued increases and more and more benefits. Management has not helped either with their constant "feeding at the corporate trough".

I will agree that the Unions should be paying their fair share for medical costs, just like everyone else, no arguments there. But what you do have to realize is that for some people working for the MTA is as good as it gets. Some people are going to go through life with only a GED/High School Diploma. Under those circumstances, Blue Collar America is a way of life for them. I know numerous folks under those circumstances, because that makes up a great deal of Amtrak's own work force. These are some of the nicest guys out there, family men and women, dedicated people who go to work and give 110% everyday. But with the Education systems set up as they are today, many will not move on to management. At my very own University CSX recruits management trainees from us, 22 year old kids who have no idea what the heck it's like to work a 12 hour shift in the heat (or freezing temperatures), but CSX is going to send these kids straight to management. Now that's not to say there aren't Managers that have come through the ranks, but those are usually the best and brightest of the ranks.

Now as far as your opinion that America needs fewer Unions, that's absolutely absurd. Unions provide many protections, and a lot of bargaining power that non-Unionized employees will never recieve. Without Unions many folks would not recieve the wages and benefits that are provided for some people just to sustain day to day life. It's the simple fact that if workers negotiated one on one, a: it'd be a big headache for management, b: some people that would request decent earnings would be fired simply because someone else could do the job cheaper. On that note, the Unions protect their employees from individual fire sales at the whim of management. Chances are if there is a mistake at work, he's toast. We all make mistakes at work, some people it's on spreadsheets, some people it's on where a passenger is supposed to get off, it happens to all of us. Finally legal benefits are huge. This comes to mind especially for teachers, if they're accused of wrong doing by a student the Union provides lawyers at no additional cost to that teacher. The Unions protect the hard working blue collar Americans, and there was a time not too long ago when they didn't exsist. The government allows it because these guys need it.