Overly detailed explanation by Conductor?

[TylerP42]

On the WB CL (29) Today. We are about an hour late and we stopped just before South Bend. The conductor came on and gave an about 15 minute speech about the fact there is Track work, that they is freight traffic, that Amtrak owns very little track (which is why we are delayed) and also a brief info session on Norfolk Southern. Then he repeated it all. Do you think that is appropriate or overexplanation?

 

[Ispolkom]

Given the number of times I have sat in an Amtrak train for hours with literally not a single word of explanation for the delay, your conductor's speech sounds fine to me.

 

[amtkstn]

This is something that needs to happen more on Amtrak trains.

 

[iPat09]

Currently on Texas Eagle and was on City of New Orleans yesterday. Both trains did the same thing and it was appreciated.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

I think this was an excellent response to the situation. Remember that many people on the train don't have the extensive amount of knowledge that railfans may, and it will put them at ease to have an explanation given, plus some history, which can't hurt.

It beats no explanation. Or a rude one (like the time I was on the Silver Star, in a sleeper, and we had been stopped for about half an hour. I finally saw a conductor going through and asked, very politely, why we were stopped. He said, "Cause we got a red light" and kept going! :huh:

 

[wjh2]

When I was on the CL 29, we were given the same explanation. I wasn't worried as I was only concerned in making my connection in Chicago.

 

[MikefromCrete]

I think this was an excellent response to the situation. Remember that many people on the train don't have the extensive amount of knowledge that railfans may, and it will put them at ease to have an explanation given, plus some history, which can't hurt.

It beats no explanation. Or a rude one (like the time I was on the Silver Star, in a sleeper, and we had been stopped for about half an hour. I finally saw a conductor going through and asked, very politely, why we were stopped. He said, "Cause we got a red light" and kept going! :huh:

That could be the entire explanation. Often a crew doesn't know more than that. The dispatcher probably wasn't giving the crew a detailed reason for the stop.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

Thanks, MikefromCrete. It was a long time ago, but your answer does make me feel better about it. At the time, I thought the conductor was just being rude. Also, I normally wouldn't bother asking about a delay, but it was one of my first trips to Florida and we were stopped out in the middle of the state in the middle of what (to me from the congested Northeast) seemed like the wilderness, and I was having a mild panic attack. (Will we ever move again? Will alligators climb up the steps and eat us? )

 

[Bob Dylan]

Long as they have radio and/or Cell service the Conductors always know the reason for train stopages and delays!

Some will share the info with the OBS and passengers, some won't!

Lots of times passengers with scanners and connected devices know more about what's happening than the OBS!!!

 

[Hal]

Long as they have radio and/or Cell service the Conductors always know the reason for train stopages and delays!

Some will share the info with the OBS and passengers, some won't!

Lots of times passengers with scanners and connected devices know more about what's happening than the OBS!!!

I wish that were true. Unfortunately the dispatchers often don't share the reason for a red signal to the train crews.

 

[Thirdrail7]

Long as they have radio and/or Cell service the Conductors always know the reason for train stopages and delays!

Nothing could be further from the truth. Quite often the conductor's portable units can't even pick up the dispatcher. There are also time when the dispatchers don't advise the train as to why they are being held.

 

[Bob Dylan]

The Enginner is always in contact with the Dispatcher and should know what's going on! They can ask the Dispatcher for info any time! If the Dispatcher doesn't share it, that's on them!

If I was the Conductor and they refused to share this info, I'd make an announcement to the train about this so Amtrak wouldn't get the blame for delays and Poor OTP!

Even if the Conductors radio doesn't work with the Dispatcher it should be able to connect with the Engineer for info!

Why the Dispatcher wouldn't want to tell the T&E Crew what's goung on makes no sense, and is actually NOT policy on any Road AFAIK!

 

[Hal]

The Enginner is always in contact with the Dispatcher and knows what's going on!

They can communicate with the Conductor and fill them in if needed!

Why the Dispatcher wouldn't want to tell the T&E Crew wgats goung on makes no sense, and is actually NOT policy on any Road AFAIK!

That is not true. Often the dispatcher does not communicate to the engineer the reason for delays or respond to an engineers queries about what is going on. The dispatcher might be trying to find out what is causing the signal to not display or the switch normalize. They might not know either.

It may not make sense to you but it happens a lot. Perhaps the dispatcher has other things going on at the same time. They are responsible for a large section of railroad or perhaps they are communicating with a track or signal forman or another train that is in trouble and causing the delay.

 

[Thirdrail7]

The Enginner is always in contact with the Dispatcher and knows what's going on!

They can communicate with the Conductor and fill them in if needed!

Why the Dispatcher wouldn't want to tell the T&E Crew wgats goung on makes no sense, and is actually NOT policy on any Road AFAIK!

That is not true. Often the dispatcher does not communicate to the engineer the reason for delays or respond to an engineers queries about what is going on. The dispatcher might be trying to find out what is causing the signal to not display or the switch normalize. They might not know either.

It may not make sense to you but it happens a lot. Perhaps the dispatcher has other things going on at the same time. They are responsible for a large section of railroad or perhaps they are communicating with a track or signal forman or another train that is in trouble and causing the delay.

To expand on what Hal mentioned, sometimes blurting things out on the radio isn't prudent. It is better to assess which may take time considering a dispatcher may have 30 or 40 trains and a large of amount of territory under their belts.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

sometimes blurting things out on the radio isn't prudent.

For example, it might not be a good thing for passengers to hear "Several alligators have just boarded and made a reservation for the dining car."

Sorry, guys--this was getting so detailed and serious, I just couldn't resist!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

At the time, I thought the conductor was just being rude.

Nothing prevents a conductor from being correct and rude at the same time. That being said I still tend to be more lenient with conductor attitudes since they are not hired or evaluated for their interpersonal skills, or lack thereof. The main thing I want from a conductor is fair treatment and a safe ride. If I'm going to make a stink about Amtrak conductors it would probably be over the lack even minimal protections from warrantless civil forfeiture. Curt responses and drive by explanations probably wouldn't be much of a concern for me.

 

[Hal]

At the time, I thought the conductor was just being rude.

Nothing prevents a conductor from being correct and rude at the same time. That being said I still tend to be more lenient with conductor attitudes since they are not hired or evaluated for their interpersonal skills, or lack thereof. The main thing I want from a conductor is fair treatment and a safe ride. If I'm going to make a stink about Amtrak conductors it would probably be over the lack even minimal protections from warrantless civil forfeiture. Curt responses and drive by explanations probably wouldn't be much of a concern for me.

It is not true that Passengers Conductors are not hired or evaluated for their interpersonal skills, or lack of them. Also Conductors should be giving as much information as they are able to about any delays enroute.

As far making a stink about conductors over the lack of protections from warrantless civil forfeiture, conductors have nothing to do with that, can't protect from that, so raising a stink about conductors and warrantless forfeiture would be useless.

 

[BCL]

At the time, I thought the conductor was just being rude.

Nothing prevents a conductor from being correct and rude at the same time. That being said I still tend to be more lenient with conductor attitudes since they are not hired or evaluated for their interpersonal skills, or lack thereof. The main thing I want from a conductor is fair treatment and a safe ride. If I'm going to make a stink about Amtrak conductors it would probably be over the lack even minimal protections from warrantless civil forfeiture. Curt responses and drive by explanations probably wouldn't be much of a concern for me.

It is not true that Passengers Conductors are not hired or evaluated for their interpersonal skills, or lack of them. Also Conductors should be giving as much information as they are able to about any delays enroute.

As far making a stink about conductors over the lack of protections from warrantless civil forfeiture, conductors have nothing to do with that, can't protect from that, so raising a stink about conductors and warrantless forfeiture would be useless.

I think that's a particular pet peeve. However, it's my understanding that conductors have the discretion to allow (or not) local law enforcement to board and conduct a search without a warrant or probably cause.

 

[Hal]

At the time, I thought the conductor was just being rude.

Nothing prevents a conductor from being correct and rude at the same time. That being said I still tend to be more lenient with conductor attitudes since they are not hired or evaluated for their interpersonal skills, or lack thereof. The main thing I want from a conductor is fair treatment and a safe ride. If I'm going to make a stink about Amtrak conductors it would probably be over the lack even minimal protections from warrantless civil forfeiture. Curt responses and drive by explanations probably wouldn't be much of a concern for me.

It is not true that Passengers Conductors are not hired or evaluated for their interpersonal skills, or lack of them. Also Conductors should be giving as much information as they are able to about any delays enroute.

As far making a stink about conductors over the lack of protections from warrantless civil forfeiture, conductors have nothing to do with that, can't protect from that, so raising a stink about conductors and warrantless forfeiture would be useless.

I think that's a particular pet peeve. However, it's my understanding that conductors have the discretion to allow (or not) local law enforcement to board and conduct a search without a warrant or probably cause.

Amtrak conductors don't have that discretion.

 

[TylerP42]

A police officer that searches without probable cause or a warrant or permission and finds something won't be able to use said evidence against the person. Since it was illegally searched.

 

[BCL]

At the time, I thought the conductor was just being rude.

Nothing prevents a conductor from being correct and rude at the same time. That being said I still tend to be more lenient with conductor attitudes since they are not hired or evaluated for their interpersonal skills, or lack thereof. The main thing I want from a conductor is fair treatment and a safe ride. If I'm going to make a stink about Amtrak conductors it would probably be over the lack even minimal protections from warrantless civil forfeiture. Curt responses and drive by explanations probably wouldn't be much of a concern for me.

It is not true that Passengers Conductors are not hired or evaluated for their interpersonal skills, or lack of them. Also Conductors should be giving as much information as they are able to about any delays enroute.

As far making a stink about conductors over the lack of protections from warrantless civil forfeiture, conductors have nothing to do with that, can't protect from that, so raising a stink about conductors and warrantless forfeiture would be useless.

I think that's a particular pet peeve. However, it's my understanding that conductors have the discretion to allow (or not) local law enforcement to board and conduct a search without a warrant or probably cause.

Amtrak conductors don't have that discretion.

I've read enough that suggests that conductors often tell local police that they have to go unless they have a warrant.

A police officer that searches without probable cause or a warrant or permission and finds something won't be able to use said evidence against the person. Since it was illegally searched.

However, I'm pretty sure that Amtrak's policy on "security inspections" allows a conductor to allow any law enforcement to request a search, with the possibility of being sent off if permission to search is denied. I keep on hearing about specific places where local police are waiting and the conductors go along with it.

 

[fillyjonk]

Heh. I remember one time on the train, I ate dinner with a man and his 12-ish year old daughter. The Conductor (or whoever handles the trainwide announcements) once again announced that people were to "wear shoes at all times when walking about the train"

The daughter, who was obviously a smart and well-brought-up young lady, commented, "He sure says that A LOT."

Her dad remarked: "Well, sometimes it's after a stop where people just got on."

And I couldn't resist chiming in: "And some people don't listen, too." (I remember MANY TIMES when they announced like 8 times "wait to be called to the diner" because apparently people were just going downt there). Both of them laughed.

So yeah, whenever I hear an over detailed explanation I just figure it's for the people who didn't listen the first time. (or the first seven times)

 

[jis]

A police officer that searches without probable cause or a warrant or permission and finds something won't be able to use said evidence against the person. Since it was illegally searched.

Yeah but they have in the past pocketed the stuff (anything of cash value) anyway under the guise of civil forfeiture, to enhance the coffers of the police department. Some states have recently clamped down on that abuse. Apparently the Albuquerque Police Department is now running a significant deficit as a result and scrambling to find alternate sources of funding to stay afloat. Thewre was an article the other day about this in a New Mexico newspaper which I read while passing through there on the SWC, and for the life of me can;t find it now.

 

[FormerOBS]

The engineer's radio can communicate with the dispatcher (DS). The conductor's radio can communicate with the engineer. Sometimes the DS doesn't communicate much to them. This can be for legitimate reasons, such as a lot of problems hitting all at once; or it can just be because the DS got up on the wrong side of the bed. Whichever the case, the DS can become peeved if he feels that he is being pestered for information. It's best to keep the DS on your side.

Tom

 

[SarahZ]

On one of my trips on the Wolverine, the cafe car attendant explained the delay south of Chicago, adding in a bit about the proposal for the South of the Lake line. He encouraged everyone to write to their representatives to support the line, as it would ease congestion. He gave a lot of detail about how we were affected by freight, Metra, and other Amtrak trains, as well.

Even though I knew a lot of it, his explanation was worded so well that I listened to every bit of it. He had a nice, natural speaking voice, like a favorite teacher. It was a nice distraction too. By the time he finished, we were on our way.

Once we got to Porter, he talked about the high-speed section between Porter and Kalamazoo and then described the process/schedule for extending it to Dearborn.

I thought it was really good information for those who didn't know about it, and if people were bored or didn't care, they could just keep listening to their headphones.

The only time I get annoyed by PA chatter is when it's truly redundant and excessive. I had one car attendant on... the CL, I believe... who yammered all the way from the Calumet to CUS, with lots of "umms" and "ahhs", and half of the information he provided was wrong (like checking bags to Kalamazoo). I wanted to snatch the PA away from him.