Pacific Surfliner

[Aristotle]

My better half and I recently made a day trip from Orange County (Cali) to San Diego's Santa Fe station on the Pacific Surfliner, just a day trip and to enjoy some lunch in Little Italy. I want to say that I truly enjoyed this line (it's one of the few I have never taken). We left at exactly the scheduled minute (7:12 A.M.) and arrived 5 minutes early. The views are breath-taking. I have heard that this line is threatened, what with the erosion and landslides. Does anyone know anything about that ? Is it true that Amtrak has considered halting or altering the P.S. ?

 

[Cal]

I have heard that this line is threatened, what with the erosion and landslides. Does anyone know anything about that ? Is it true that Amtrak has considered halting or altering the P.S. ?

The line by San Clemente has had to be closed for months at a time multiple times before due to erosion, and fixes (that probably aren't permanent) are being worked on. Del Mar Bluffs are also slowly eroding, and there are plans to build a new tunnel inland there, but the recent cost estimates have been absurd (I think like a billion per mile) because the US doesn't know how to build transit anymore. Not sure if theres a long-term plan for San Clemente, but I doubt train service will be halted forever, but it will be altered.

 

[TinCan782]

I believe the Pacific Surfliner is one of Amtrak's better performing routes (outside of the Northeast Corridor). I don't think they would just let it go.
Also, the "Surfline" route is used by BNSF between Los Angeles and San Diego and as such, has a strategic importance for freight traffic as well as the Department of Defense (USN and USMC).
The route will quite possibly be altered due to geological issues, but I don't think it will "go away".

 

[zephyr17]

Is it true that Amtrak has considered halting or altering the P.S. ?

Not Amtrak, but SCRRA and NCTD, the track owners and operators of commuter rail on the line (ownership changes at the county line south of San Clemente).

A tunnel avoiding the unstable Del Mar bluffs is in the planning stages. That's going to happen. A tunnel solution is under consideration for the bluffs at San Clemente, but much less further along.

Amtrak really has nothing whatsoever to do with deciding much of anything to do with the Surfiner. The Pacific Surfliner itself is sponsored and contracted for by the LOSSAN Rail Corridor Agency and it is they that determine the points served and the levels of service. Amtrak just runs what they're contracted to run. If LOSSAN makes a decision, such as dropping most checked baggage service, Amtrak does it as LOSSAN pays the bills. Being less than 750 miles it is not part of the National Network and would not exist if California and LOSSAN did not contract for it.

 

[railiner]

I’m not clear about this so-called “National Network”. Are all trains outside the NEC that are under 750 miles in route, now the responsibility of state or regional authorities?
When Amtrak began, they ran many trains like that, including I believe 3 daily ‘San Diegans” (although for a while I believe one of the trio had thru cars to Seattle on the days that train ran).
After Amtraks start, states could fund new or additional trains on the same or new routes.

At some point, was Amtrak no longer responsible to fully fund even the core network they once did?

 

[zephyr17]

I’m not clear about this so-called “National Network”. Are all trains outside the NEC that are under 750 miles in route, now the responsibility of state or regional authorities?
When Amtrak began, they ran many trains like that, including I believe 3 daily ‘San Diegans” (although for a while I believe one of the trio had thru cars to Seattle on the days that train ran).
After Amtraks start, states could fund new or additional trains on the same or new routes.

At some point, was Amtrak no longer responsible to fully fund even the core network they once did?

Yes. As of the PRIIA Act of 2008 which amended the original Rail Passenger Act of 1970. This is the way things have worked for the last 16 years, so it is not exactly news. Everything under 750 miles is state responsibility except the NEC.

You are correct that 2 daily San Diegans and a third tri-weekly one were part of the original core network. When the third one went back to daily it may have also been a core system train, I am not sure about that. Then additional state funded San Diegans were added, so it was a mix of core system trains and state supported trains. PRIIA drew hard lines and all San Diegan/Surfliner service became solely a state responsibility.

At a high level, Amtrak is divided onto 4 accounting units, the NEC, the National Network, State Corridors and contracted commuter operations (like LA's Metrolink, which they're in danger of losing).

 

[Cal]

A tunnel avoiding the unstable Del Mar bluffs is in the planning stages. That's going to happen. A tunnel solution is under consideration for the bluffs at San Clemente, but much less further along.

Will be great for the Surfliner in 300 years when the tunnels are finally built for them to lose the only two ocean-views on the core route from LA to San Diet (sarcasm).

(like LA's Metrolink, which they're in danger of losing).

Please start a thread on this or DM me with info, am very curious.

 

[railiner]

Please start a thread on this or DM me with info, am very curious.

Could be Amtrak was underbid, or perhaps didn’t meet the performance they were expected…
Several years ago, they lost the MBTA contract. Perhaps some others?

 

[MARC Rider]

Will be great for the Surfliner in 300 years when the tunnels are finally built for them to lose the only two ocean-views on the core route from LA to San Diet (sarcasm).

The reason the taxpayers support funding for this service is to provide reliable transportation between LA and San Diego that gets people out of their cars, not give travelers ocean views. Better a tunnel than having the service unpredictably cancelled because of landslides.

 

[TinCan782]

Please start a thread on this or DM me with info, am very curious.

Metrolink operating contract:
https://www.amtraktrains.com/threads/amtrak-expected-to-lose-metrolink-operating-contract.88088/

 

[Cal]

The reason the taxpayers support funding for this service is to provide reliable transportation between LA and San Diego that gets people out of their cars, not give travelers ocean views. Better a tunnel than having the service unpredictably cancelled because of landslides.

Absolutely, and I will be thrilled when the tunnels hopefully improve travel times to. But it’s ironic that the Surfliner won’t really view the surf anymore (and for marketing purposes — although they will just use the santa barbara views).

 

[west point]

Since this route is considered a critical national military route maybe the Navy can put extra pressure for completion?

 

[zephyr17]

Since this route is considered a critical national military route maybe the Navy can put extra pressure for completion?

The freight trains were getting through the San Clemente slide zone, though very slowly, while the Surfliners and Metrolink Oceanside trains were suspended.

 

[TinCan782]

Transportation Agencies Applaud State Leadership on Long-Term Coastal Rail Study
"This critical transportation corridor, which serves millions of passengers annually, faces challenges that demand both short-term stabilization efforts and long-term solutions. The State’s involvement, as outlined in a letter received from California State Transportation Agency (CalSTA) Secretary Omishakin, reaffirms a commitment to address immediate issues while developing permanent solutions, including potential rail relocations in Orange and San Diego counties."
https://octa.net/news/news-releases...e-leadership-on-long-term-coastal-rail-study/