Palmetto 89 Incident in Chester, Pa. (4/3/16)

[CCC1007]

Stupid question....if there are workers on or even near the track, don't the trains passing through the area have to slow down?

usually, but not always. if there is sufficient clearance to allow for safety while not fouling the other tracks, then they might not have to slow down much.

 

[John Bobinyec]

Stupid question....if there are workers on or even near the track, don't the trains passing through the area have to slow down?

Workers are not allowed to "foul" a track until they get permission from the dispatcher who will take precautions to make sure that it is safe to do so. On the NEC, when work is going on on a particular track, workers are positioned to signal the other workers when a train is approaching on an adjacent track. However, if working on one track (with proper permission), it is never okay to momentarily foul the adjacent track without getting permission from the dispatcher to do so.

jb

 

[CSXfoamer1997]

Wow! The engineer was lucky he wasn't killed hitting a heavy-duty vehicle! How fast was the train travelling at the time?

And also, looks like #627 will get written off for sure. Maybe sent off to the scrapyard. The frame took a big bad blow.

 

[CCC1007]

Wow! The engineer was lucky he wasn't killed hitting a heavy-duty vehicle! How fast was the train travelling at the time?

And also, looks like #627 will get written off for sure. Maybe sent off to the scrapyard. The frame took a big bad blow.

Source on the frame damage please. looked to me like only one axle on the ground, possible that they only hit the larger front bucket, especially since it looks to me like they had the small bucket puncturing the lead coach.

 

[Rover]

This article from Philly.com show the front end damage to ACS-64 #627. Pretty smashed up. That one will not be back in service for a while.

Philly.com

Thank you for that link.

The article mentions:

Trains travel in that area as fast as 110 mph, authorities said.

Officials said the impact with the maintenance vehicle took place in Chester City, but the train continued moving for another mile before coming to a stop in Trainer.

Were the brakes or brake controls put out of service with the accident?

 

[FormerOBS]

Brakes out of service or rendered ineffective? Highly unlikely, but it's no surprise that the train took a mile to stop if it was going 100+. We'll have to hear more from the investigators.

I agree with the complaint about using footage of a Kansas wreck on single track involving P42's and Superliners to illustrate a story about an accident involving an ACS-64 pulling Amfleets over the electrified multiple track territory of the NEC. It's something like using a photo of the Queen Mary to describe an Aircraft carrier.

Tom

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

The article mentions:

Trains travel in that area as fast as 110 mph, authorities said.

Officials said the impact with the maintenance vehicle took place in Chester City, but the train continued moving for another mile before coming to a stop in Trainer.

Were the brakes or brake controls put out of service with the accident?

The stopping distance of steel wheels on a steel ribbon at 110 mph.
One make a assumption there was little advance warning of the equipment blocking the tracks.

Perception Time: 1.5 seconds

Reaction Time: 1.0 seconds

Brake Lag: .75 seconds

So about 540 feet traveled after the engineer first see the issue, before the brakes even hit the disks. Now add braking distance at 110 mph with steel wheels on a steel ribbon. That's why your are a mile down the track.

How good is your reaction time at 110mph when your closing on a fixed yellow object? Do you even see it before you hit it?

No facts just would think he applied the brakes just before or right after he made contact.

The numbers are for truck drivers "Total Stopping Distance"

At 65 mph at truck will travel 325 feet with out braking, and another 340 feet for braking. For a total stopping distance of 665 feet needed when traveling at 65 mph. No reason to think a train engineer has a faster perception, reaction, or better brakes lag times than a truck driver.

 

[Bob Dylan]

CNN is playing this up Big and that Shy Wallflower Chuck Schumer ( since when does he represent PA. in tbe Senate?) is featured asking something that actually makes sense for once:

WTF is a Backhoe doing on an active track with Trains running over 100mph????

 

[RSG]

News Channel 8, in Wash, DC is showing still images of the SouthWest Chief derailment and presenting it as today accident in PA. I'm sure just to be more dramatic.

http://wjla.com/newschannel-8

If this type of fake tabloid reporting really ticks you off, send an email to [email protected]

In defense of today's television news, I'm going to wager that the person who put that graphic up didn't even realize it was a “stale” image of another train entirely. In fact, I think it's probably rather remarkable that they didn't use a generic image of a CSX freight train.

The people who work weekends at local TV—even major-market stations with the resources of NewsChannel 8 & its sister station WJLA-TV—are barely more than interns. In fact, they probably were interns somewhere else a year ago. The idea that there's this manipulative Svengali who's always calling the shots, saying something like “It doesn't lead unless it bleeds!” is now a thing for the movies and television dramas. Even the station owners don't sit around watching their product and calling up every time there's an inaccuracy. Yes, it's a quality and attention-to-detail issue, but that detail has gotten lost in the drive to “cover it live!”

Add to that the problem with covering technical issues like transportation, which most Average Joe/Jane journalists don't understand and you have problems right off the bat. Case in point: the segment from WPVI-TV/Channel 6 Action News in Philadelphia which is now making the rounds to the ABC owned-and-operated stations around the country about this morning's incident. The on-the-scene reporter, who seems otherwise competent and experienced, kept referring to “Palmetto train 89”, which she appeared to take directly from Amtrak's Twitter feed. While the info in the feed wasn't inaccurate, it's how it was extrapolated that was the issue. Everyone here knows that the proper way to identify the train would be “Train #89, The Palmetto”, but again, those who have no experience with the subject won't understand that. I would imagine the person who put the Southwest Chief image up couldn't tell the difference between that image and one of the The Palmetto involved in today's incident. To them, a train wreck is a train wreck is a train wreck.

 

[RSG]

CNN is playing this up Big and that Shy Wallflower Chuck Schumer ( since when does he represent PA. in tbe Senate?) is featured asking something that actually makes sense for once:

WTF is a Backhoe doing on an active track with Trains running over 100mph????

LOL

Remember when the late Tim Russert used to sign off with “If it's Sunday, it's Meet The Press!”? Well, true then and true today: “If it's Sunday, it's Chuck Shumer on camera!”

 

[FormerOBS]

I agree that braking may not be an issue at all. Reaction time may not be an issue either. The impression is that the backhoe was working on an adjacent track. It is possible that the way was clear, then the backhoe, or a part of it, suddenly intruded on the active track just as the train passed. In that event, the engineer may have had no warning whatsoever. This only serves to show that we know a lot less than we would like to know, and there are facts that won't be publicly known until after the investigation is complete. We'll just have to wait.

As for whether anything will be scrapped, let's wait till the shop forces have a chance to look it over.

Right now my concern is for the condition of the engineer and the others who were injured.

Tom

 

[CCC1007]

This is some of what I've been getting on FaceBook in the Amtrak Northeast Corridor group while trying to be the voice of reason.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwqdz6-eshqRXzlIVVZtS21RX00/view?usp=sharing

EDIT: And they kicked me from the group!!! All that I did was express an opinion that is well within their guidelines. Time for a report of the group for not following their own rules...

 

[west point]

Wonder when the ACS derailed ? With a mile to stop the damage to rail, tie clips, anchors, cross ties may be extensive. Track may be out of service then restricted speed for some time ?

 

[CSXfoamer1997]

Wow! The engineer was lucky he wasn't killed hitting a heavy-duty vehicle! How fast was the train travelling at the time?

And also, looks like #627 will get written off for sure. Maybe sent off to the scrapyard. The frame took a big bad blow.

Source on the frame damage please. looked to me like only one axle on the ground, possible that they only hit the larger front bucket, especially since it looks to me like they had the small bucket puncturing the lead coach.

Did you not even see the pictures of the locomotive up front?

 

[pennyk]

Please try to stay on topic and avoid personal attacks and insults.

 

[keelhauled]

We're not sick of foamers, we're sick of people who don't know what they're talking about and pretend that they do.

 

[CCC1007]

Wow! The engineer was lucky he wasn't killed hitting a heavy-duty vehicle! How fast was the train travelling at the time?

And also, looks like #627 will get written off for sure. Maybe sent off to the scrapyard. The frame took a big bad blow.

Source on the frame damage please. looked to me like only one axle on the ground, possible that they only hit the larger front bucket, especially since it looks to me like they had the small bucket puncturing the lead coach.

Did you not even see the pictures of the locomotive up front?

Yes I did see the front of the locomotive, which is where I could make a guess that a single axle is on the ground, and it really is not very bad from what I can see. Just looks like lots of body work from that angle.

 

[CSXfoamer1997]

We're not sick of foamers, we're sick of people who don't know what they're talking about and pretend that they do.

Tell you the truth, I'm a researcher, not a philosopher! And I've heard from other railfans and railroad workers that locos with frame damage have a tendency to get written off! A loco with frame damage has a higher chance of getting written off than getting repaired!

I'm not being a know-it-all, I'm telling you what I've heard from others before! So there!

 

[keelhauled]

We're not sick of foamers, we're sick of people who don't know what they're talking about and pretend that they do.

Tell you the truth, I'm a researcher, not a philosopher! And I've heard from other railfans and railroad workers that locos with frame damage have a tendency to get written off! A loco with frame damage has a higher chance of getting written off than getting repaired!
I'm not being a know-it-all, I'm telling you what I've heard from others before! So there!

Prove it has frame damage.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Besides, what will happen to the equipment is not what should be discussed at this time. 2 people lost their lives in this accident. Unfortunately, foamers and some rail fans are more concerned about poor engine 627.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

on other forum(railroad.net) a video was posted of scene as it is today, train is removed and local track back in service.

Siemens locomotives far more damaged, have been put back in service after repairs in Europe, so any speculation is way premature.

 

[Ryan]

We're not sick of foamers, we're sick of people who don't know what they're talking about and pretend that they do.

Tell you the truth, I'm a researcher, not a philosopher! And I've heard from other railfans and railroad workers that locos with frame damage have a tendency to get written off! A loco with frame damage has a higher chance of getting written off than getting repaired!
I'm not being a know-it-all, I'm telling you what I've heard from others before! So there!

Prove it has frame damage.

Someone else said it on the Internet, therefore it must be true.

 

[jis]

Redacted

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I heard on GMA - ABC news something to the effect of questioning why PTC did not stop the train. :blink:

 

[Dutchrailnut]

PTC can not see items not shunting or items not on same track , it is not a cure all.

here is video posted of today.