Passenger train derailment in the Bronx

[AlanB]

Is that a station that the train would have been expected to stop at?

No.

This train was an express making very limited stops. It's last stop was Tarrytown several miles north and its next stop was to be 125th Street in Manhattan.

 

[NE933]

Eastern track seems ok, but the earth and ballast underneath likely have to be checked for shifting.

 

[the_traveler]

For those not familiar with the area, the tracks on the left in the photo posted by Charlie in post #17 are those used by Amtrak to get to NYP. The tracks on the right (where the derailment happened) is only used by MNRR going to Grand Central. The junction of the 2 lines is at the top of the photo.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Does Metro North use in-cab video?

 

[Blackwolf]

Does Metro North use in-cab video?

I was just thinking the same thing. Also, being that close to a station, I would think a security camera or two may have recorded the event.

The cars themselves actually appear to have held up very well, with no passenger compartment intrusion or major structural failure. The injuries and fatalities are likely caused from not being restrained inside. Not a good day.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

I am always amazed in cases like this how the media and other folks take as gospel what the Governor or some other pee-pot politician says.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

WNBC reports Amtrak is restoring Empire Corridor Service. That is relief considering this is one of their busiest travel days.

 

[jis]

There are some reports that at least two of the fatalities are individuals that were ejected from the train. Awaiting more info.

 

[MrFSS]

There was a lot of discussion on CNN about if trains should have seat belts.

 

[PRR 60]

WNBC reports Amtrak is restoring Empire Corridor Service. That is relief considering this is one of their busiest travel days.

Amtrak has reversed that and is not operating through the area.

 

[amamba]

Wow, that looks scary. Thanks for the reporting here that has helped me to understand the location of the tracks compared to Amtrak, etc. I really appreciate the great information that I get from this forum. My heart goes out to anyone affected by this incident.

 

[NE933]

Some observations of mine from the photos:

1. The lead car has debris on the roof above the cab area, in the form of either soil, or vegetation, or both, in addition to scrape marks on the side facing the Hudson River, indicating it likely turned over and then righted itself from the forces generated in the accident; such a maneuver would indeed create violent motions sufficient to throw passengers out.

2. Had it gone off the tracks a little further, the station would have been hit and the carnage factor way up, with people on the platform getting wiped out and rail cars deformed similar in the way the German ICE was, from hitting a hard stationary object.

3. Not accident related, but interesting, is a photo revealing the long dormant south track (Spuyten Duyvel used to be a wye configuration) that would enable traffic to run from the bridge to southbound. Old printed materials I have state that the need for such movements were rare, and so the track was taken up, except for a few feet shown in the picture.

This is a big downer, and I feel bad for the losses involved and the effects it shall have in many areas, causing more uncertainty, distress, grieving, and sadness.

 

[AlanB]

3. Not accident related, but interesting, is a photo revealing the long dormant south track (Spuyten Duyvel used to be a wye configuration) that would enable traffic to run from the bridge to southbound. Old printed materials I have state that the need for such movements were rare, and so the track was taken up, except for a few feet shown in the picture.

That is the track that some railfans are hoping to see restored such that one the LIRR starts sending some trains to Grand Central, Metro North will be able to send some Harlem line trains to NYP. Hudson line trains of course would just follow the route currently used by Amtrak, were this dream of getting MN to NYP ever realized.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

What difference, if any, is there between the Blue and Red stripe Coaches?

 

[AlanB]

Blue are owned by NY State and Metro North solely. Red ones are in theory New Haven line cars, even though Metro North uses them wherever and however they see fit, but are at least partially owned by CDOT and the State of CT.

Same is true of engines.

 

[battalion51]

IIRC red striped coaches are owned by CDOT whereas blue striped coaches are owned by MTA. Could be wrong, but that sticks out in my mind.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

your right, both are in pool service and can be used on any of 3 lines or branches.

 

[Gingee]

So in this picture the train was headed north?

 

[MrFSS]

So in this picture the train was headed north?

No - south. The engine was on the "rear" of the train pushing it. The engineer was in the lead car (cab car) controlling the engine from there.

 

[George Harris]

There are some reports that at least two of the fatalities are individuals that were ejected from the train. Awaiting more info.

I would consider being ejected from the train highly unlikely unless the person was in the vestibule between cars at the time. Note the absence of crumpling of the coaches compared to those in the Spanish derailment. Consider this an illustration of why I consider reducing the strength requirements of passenger cars to be similar to that required in Europe to be a very bad idea.

 

[Train person]

There are some reports that at least two of the fatalities are individuals that were ejected from the train. Awaiting more info.

I would consider being ejected from the train highly unlikely unless the person was in the vestibule between cars at the time. Note the absence of crumpling of the coaches compared to those in the Spanish derailment. Consider this an illustration of why I consider reducing the strength requirements of passenger cars to be similar to that required in Europe to be a very bad idea.

Perhaps the lack of crumpling might be to do with the difference in speed between the 2 accidents, and the lack of running into a concrete retaining wall might help as well.As for the ejection of passengers from the train, did none of the windows break....?? Broken windows, vehicles rolling over, indeed, why would anyone be ejected through the window space?

 

[jis]

I learned that now it is known that three of the fatalities were ejected through emergency windows that popped out on their own. This will likely be a significant area of inquiry as to how to prevent such from happening in the future.

 

[George Harris]

There are some reports that at least two of the fatalities are individuals that were ejected from the train. Awaiting more info.

I would consider being ejected from the train highly unlikely unless the person was in the vestibule between cars at the time. Note the absence of crumpling of the coaches compared to those in the Spanish derailment. Consider this an illustration of why I consider reducing the strength requirements of passenger cars to be similar to that required in Europe to be a very bad idea.

Perhaps the lack of crumpling might be to do with the difference in speed between the 2 accidents, and the lack of running into a concrete retaining wall might help as well.As for the ejection of passengers from the train, did none of the windows break....?? Broken windows, vehicles rolling over, indeed, why would anyone be ejected through the window space?

Since I wrote what did, I have seen the same report or similar that Jis quoted in post just above. As he said, that emergency windows popped out will be investigate. Not supposed to have happened. Have seen videos of Spanish accident. Stand by what I said on strength issues.

 

[TVRM610]

I'm not sure why people want to argue about strength issues. USA has much higher strength requirements and the equipment holds up much better in accidents. This to me is a proven fact based on actual accidents USA vs. Europe.

 

[John Bredin]

I'm not sure why people want to argue about strength issues. USA has much higher strength requirements and the equipment holds up much better in accidents. This to me is a proven fact based on actual accidents USA vs. Europe.

What people want to argue about is whether that better performance in accidents does or doesn't outweigh the extra cost from (1) heavier passenger/commuter cars that have to be (2) specially designed for the U.S. market.

If Amtrak or a commuter operator can afford only 50 cars built to FRA requirements but could buy 60 cars "off the shelf" from a European or Japanese manufacturer, and if they're going to use 10% more fuel or electricity than the off-the-shelf cars, then how many lives are saved by FRA-compliant cars is only half the equation. (Made-up numbers for example, of course.)

Of course, this is complicated by Buy-American requirements; Amtrak or a commuter authority, spending at least partly Federal money for a car purchase, can't just have the same cars that would be sold to a non-U.S. railway shipped from an overseas factory but have to have at least some of the manufacturing occur here. (That complicates back the other way in that, even absent a Buy American legal requirement, I'm sure we'd see final assembly plants in the buying agency's state as part of sweetening the bidding politically. Federal Buy-American requirements don't require, for example, a Metra bi-level final assembly plant in Illinois. )