Pennsylvanian (the train(s) and route) discussion

[jis]

Getting away from the "passenger pulls emergency cord" and back to the actual Pennsylvanian train Does anyone know the current status of the 2nd Pennsylvanian addition, is any progress being made or are they just "studying" it again?

Fully funded work is in progress. Expected to go on line in 2026. See article below for example....

https://nextpittsburgh.com/latest-n...he-ticket-for-pennsylvania-rail-improvements/

 

[PaTrainFan]

Getting away from the "passenger pulls emergency cord" and back to the actual Pennsylvanian train Does anyone know the current status of the 2nd Pennsylvanian addition, is any progress being made or are they just "studying" it again?

Last I saw it's considered a done deal with an agreement with NS for $200 million of upgrades to the line, earliest start up in 2026. Not sure any actual work has begun on the infrastructure, however.

 

[jis]

Last I saw it's considered a done deal with an agreement with NS for $200 million of upgrades to the line, earliest start up in 2026. Not sure any actual work has begun on the infrastructure, however.

Work is supposed to begin this year (2024).

 

[BlackDiamond]

They should come up with a different name for the second train. Perhaps reuse one of the old PRR names such as the Duquesne or the Fort Pitt.

I think I'll pass on the Altoona Sicilian Pizza though

 

[PaTrainFan]

They should come up with a different name for the second train. Perhaps reuse one of the old PRR names such as the Duquesne or the Fort Pitt.

I think I'll pass on the Altoona Sicilian Pizza though

It doesn't invoke fond memories for rail fans but I'm betting Amtrak revives The Three Rivers. Or something with Allegheny in it.

 

[jis]

They should come up with a different name for the second train. Perhaps reuse one of the old PRR names such as the Duquesne or the Fort Pitt.

I think I'll pass on the Altoona Sicilian Pizza though

Amtrak has run trains with both of those names in the past. So in some sense Duquesne would be a straight revival of a Pittsburgh - Philly Amtrak train of the past. Fort Pitt IIRC was a Pittsburgh - Altoona train.

 

[PRR 60]

Maybe The Pittsburgher - formerly PRR Train 60

 

[Amtrak25]

Three Rivers.

 

[railiner]

They should come up with a different name for the second train. Perhaps reuse one of the old PRR names such as the Duquesne or the Fort Pitt.

Or, the Juniata, or the Golden Triangle…

 

[joelkfla]

They should come up with a different name for the second train. Perhaps reuse one of the old PRR names such as the Duquesne or the Fort Pitt.

I think I'll pass on the Altoona Sicilian Pizza though

The Yinserian.

 

[railiner]

The Yinserian.

The “Stillers”

 

[jis]

I suspect that it is PennDOT and not Amtrak that gets to name a train funded by PennDOT. I suspect the more exotic names proposed above will not see the light of the day.

Trains Magazine had an article on the proposed second Pennsylvanian in 2022 which had a short history of Amtrak train names on the Harrisburg - Pittsburgh section:

At its inception in 1971, Amtrak operated three daily trains over the route, the New York-Pittsburgh Duquesne, the Broadway Limited to Chicago and the National Limited to St. Louis and Kansas City, Mo. After the National was discontinued in 1979, PennDOT added the state-supported Philadelphia-Pittsburgh Pennsylvanian in April 1980, which in 1983 was extended to New York. Since 2005, the New York-Pittsburgh version of the Pennsylvanian has been the Pittsburgh Line’s sole daily Amtrak service.

The full article which is quite informative and contains some details of the work that will be done on the route starting this year (2024). You can see the article at:

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-rev...-include-12-new-or-upgraded-ns-interlockings/

 

[Amtrak25]

I was just reading my 1971 Amtrak national timetables.

The May 1 schedule had nameless trains with Penn Central train numbers. Forget that.

November was the first real Amtrak timetable. There were never 3 trains a day to Pittsburgh.

• The Broadway and National Ltds were combined east of Pittsburgh. The combined train had a Washington - Harrisburg section.
• There was a train 42/43 called "Keystone" to Pittsburgh.
• Also a train 60/61 called the "Lake Shore".

The eastbound schedules had the two trains leaving PGH at around 1am and 10am.

Whenever they decided to separate the two trains was the end of the Pittsburgh train. The Pennsylvanian came about from the discontinuance of the National Ltd after 1979.

The Fort Pitt was around 1981, used Pennsylvanian equipment (3 cars), ran on a psuedo-rush hour schedule between Pittsburgh and Altoona.

That was also when PA Transit was running the Parkway Ltd commuter train I believe to Pitcairn with ex-Southern Pacific leg rest coaches recently bumped off the Coast Starlight or Sunset Ltd and ex-Autotrain U-boats of Conrail. I remember seeing it loading more people than the Fort Pitt, some with pizza pies.

 

[PaTrainFan]

A little more on the second Pennsylvanian train, with operating estimate of $8 million annually.

https://www.thecentersquare.com/pennsylvania/article_91f627b2-f6ac-11ee-a5a6-eb609858ba77.html

 

[Amtrak25]

Seems like a lot of money for a 250 mile extension of a Keystone train. I think the Pennsylvanian costs something like $5 million, though that was a few years ago. But a 2nd frequency on an existing route with no additional fixed costs should cost less than the first. To what extent that are NS track charges and what is attributable to Amtrak's so-called accounting, we don't know.

 

[PaTrainFan]

Just for kicks watched the Pennsylvanian twice today on the Horseshoe Curve rail cam and noted that it now has seven cars. Not sure how long this has been the case but it had been six for several years. Perhaps it got a bump given the restricted service on the Keystone Corridor during this year's heavy roadbed project.

 

[Literalman]

Amtrak did say that during the Keystone construction the Pennsylvanian would have extra capacity. I thought it would be more than one additional coach.

 

[cirdan]

Just for kicks watched the Pennsylvanian twice today on the Horseshoe Curve rail cam and noted that it now has seven cars. Not sure how long this has been the case but it had been six for several years. Perhaps it got a bump given the restricted service on the Keystone Corridor during this year's heavy roadbed project.

maybe I haven't been keeping up, but are plans for the thru sleeper car that would get switched onto the Capitol Limited in Pittsburgh still being pursued?

 

[Amtrak25]

Amtrak did say that during the Keystone construction the Pennsylvanian would have extra capacity. I thought it would be more than one additional coach.

Amazing (or maybe not) - Amtrak can find another two Amfleet-2 cars when they want to for a daytime corridor train, but not a 3rd coach for the Cardinal, nor any plans to. Gardner's and Harris's passive aggression towards that train is in plain sight, especially with Manchin leaving the Senate.

Meanwhile, they have sent about 5 Horizon cars to Maine, releasing Amfleet-1 for the Maple Leaf. Maple Leaf and Adirondack Amfleet-2 cars have become the 4th coach on the 8 Florida train sets.

No, there are zero plans to run any through cars off the Pennsylvanian to Chicago. That was a Performance Improvement Plan, all of which have been tossed into the garbage. Richard Anderson removed them from the Amtrak website in 2018. They exist only on various C drives and thumb drives of ours.

 

[PaTrainFan]

maybe I haven't been keeping up, but are plans for the thru sleeper car that would get switched onto the Capitol Limited in Pittsburgh still being pursued?

No, I think that was a dream that was born and died many years ago.

 

[chadamfleetrailfan]

I was on the Pennslyvanian this past weekend to take my PGH-HGD that I take every few months and I see that the Huntingdon platform is getting a makeover. The platform (which always extended past the shack) is getting a little bit taller (seen below).

This will be great as getting off the amfleet at the station is a very big drop from the steps (as you can see it's at ballast/ground level). It's cool to see attention given to Huntingdon; however, I heard not too long ago from the station attendant there, the little shack may be overhauled as well, which will break my heart, because that shack has character (and memories) to me.

 

[AnotherJoe]

This post came at a great time. I’ll be traveling to HGD from AZ 1st time on Amtrak- so glad they are raising that platform-thank you for the informative post.

 

[PaTrainFan]

I wrote to PennDot yesterday about the status of the second Pennsylvanian train and shockingly received a response less than 24 hours later. To wit, here is what they are saying. It doesn't tell us much, however. When they late 2026, that means 2027. Long wait.

"Thank you for reaching out on the status of the second Pennsylvanian Train. PennDOT and NS continue to meet monthly for coordination of project engineering progress on the projects to support the additional Amtrak service. The second round trip of the Pennsylvanian is scheduled to start in late 2026, following completion of four state-funded projects required to be in place prior to the start of the additional service. These projects are currently advancing through final design.

In addition, the 2nd Pennsylvanian project was selected for federal funding through the FRA Federal-State Partnership National grant program. Selections were announced in December 2023, and PennDOT was awarded the full amount requested, $143.6M. These funds will be applied toward final design and construction of 7 other projects to support the passenger service. Survey, preliminary engineering, and environmental work is in the early stages on these projects and construction is anticipated to be complete by 2031.

For more information, you can visit Keystone West - Advancing PA Rail which will be updated periodically to provide current project status."

 

[OmahaRoad]

The sad reaction is for the wait, not your informative post, @PaTrainFan ! Thanks for the info. I'd love to ride the Pennsylvanian someday. It feels like this is what could have happened, worst case, with the Borealis service, had CPKC and the DOTs insisted on the associated track improvements being completed before service could begin. Given that apparently the construction on those projects hasn't even started yet, the Borealis could have been delayed from 2024 to maybe 2026, or late 2025 at best.

 

[west point]

2026 seems about right. Amtrak does not have 12 spare cars for two 2nd train sets. Maybe by 2026 it will have enough spare cars if not too many other routes take cars and especially food service cars. So the question to Penn DOT does Amtrak not have enough equipment now? If the Borealis could start up so soon hard questions need answering.