Pensioner's Progress: Visiting India on a Pension...

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You are both very widely travelled, and I never imagined that you expected fish and chips or roast beef and yorkshire pudding on the menu , worldwide. :D By western pallets, I just meant that a variety of international and less highly spiced foods could be expected there.

Yep, take your point.


I tend to eat fairly healthily at home, but am quite happy with a big mac or krispy creme doughnut when in America!

We all succumb


I have hardly been out much at all, but starting to think about local travel again, nothing possible for another 6 weeks at least in the UK. Enjoyed an al fresco picnic lunch in the park today, nice and sunny!

Do you still have your caravan? That sited somewhere which isn't home would make for an excellent change of scenery. What about a trip to the east coast, is that allowed at the moment?


Anyway, getting there without flying, or not arriving via the north, seems pretty impossible? Why the "no fly" rule?

Top of the list is it's a planning challenge to get anywhere at a fair distance without flying. We both love public transport too as so much life goes on there, and as you know well the unexpected often happens.

I'm not anti flying per se, it's efficient and most times speedy too (although with recent competition on short haul routes from city center to city center from high speed rail that doesn't always ring true). But there are negatives too. Airports to me are unpleasant and sterile, a plane certainly is sterile and in economy not as comfortable as a Greyhound. Boarding and leaving a plane can be a battleground, not a very attractive way to spend a day.

The enviromental cost of flying is starting to become a factor too, but maybe in the near future more effort towards mitigating that will be made?

Last but not least Is there ever a better way to travel than on a long distance train, if there is we haven't tried it yet.

If crossing Pakistan remains a problem I have a plan stolen from a Michael Palin travelogue (Around the world in 80 days) where he took a Dhow across to India from the Emirates or Muscat. Pretty basic, but if needs must so can we be. There used to be a ferry from the UAE to India but that stopped a while ago, so as this plan developes I'll start to make serious enquiries about joining a cargo Dhow.
Have to say though the idea is not only from Palin.

Years ago Rosie befriended a younger teacher Sonia who grew up in Dubai and wanted to teach in the UK, she was a bit of a lost soul as she knew no one in the area at all.
After a few years Sonia was travelling back to Dubai during a school holiday and asked Rosie if she wanted to go with her for the 2 weeks. Rosie and I had just met but the arrangements had been made so off she went.
On returning Rosie described a place most of us in Essex had only heard about, never seen, and because Sonia's dad was a man of influence Rosie met people and went to places only those living there would know.
Apart from the differentness (is that a word?) of this Gulf country two things really stood out., the gold souk and 'The Creek'. The Creek really grabbed her and me on listening to her tales. 15 years later and Dubai had changed out of recognition, but The Creek hadn't. We stayed in Dubai for 3 days on a stopover (ok we were flying), Rosie said The Creek was exactly the same as before.
It took my breath away seeing the big Dhows being loaded and unloaded, it would have looked the same a 500 years before. One ship was unloading (magic?) carpets from Iran, the men unloading were bare chested and and bare feet, some wore turbans. We rented a small ferry boat to sail all around that amazing harbour, all afternoon, seeing these fairly large wooden ships towering above you on the water was magical, that was the point I wondered if we could ever sail in one.

Putting Palin's film and our experiences in Dubai together with the problems crossing Pakistan by road and rail it seems an obvious method to investigate to get to India without flying.

Long long answer to a short question, sorry.
 
There will be no trouble in getting a vegetarian meal.

But a majority of Indians are not vegetarians. A majority of upper caste Indians are vegetarians. But this is currently a politically fraught subject in India. Most tourists would not come by the invisible lowest caste Indians, so they can be excused for forming a wrong impression. ;)

Irrespective of who runs the Indian restaurants, the normal north Indian cuisine served in them is northwest Indian. Very few Bangladeshi eat at home what they serve in those restaurants. Trust me, I am of the same ethnic group. A Bengali.

We generally eat tremendous variety of Fish, Rice, Daal, Eggs (Chicken and Duck) and a mind boggling variety of Vegetarian dishes too. Jokingly we say that we can make a Saag preparation out of virtually any pile of fresh leaves collected in the field.

On the meat side Goat, Mutton and Chicken are popular. Among the Muslims Water Buffalo and even some true Beef goes, but they are generally more expensive and there fore not a staple food like Fish.

The restaurant cuisine in the west has more to do with the British love affair with the so called "Martial Races" of northwest India than with what Indian in general eat. That tradition of Restaurant fare lives on after almost a century. It is actually quite hard to get real Bengali Cuisine in restaurants. Many Bangladeshi restaurants will serve it off menu in the back room if you ask them in Bengali. Oddly enough, until about 30 years back it was hard to get good Bengali cuisine even in upscale restaurants in Calcutta. Now the Bengali Cuisine restaurants are the rage in Kolkata.

Indeed, as you might have figured out from my short rant on Bengalis and Bangladeshis above.

Curries in the present form were actually popularized by Railway Refreshment Rooms in India. There is even a thing called "Railway Curry" that is served even today. The popular non-veg menu items in the Delhi Jn. Non Vegetarian Refreshment Room in the '60s were "Mutton Curry Rice", "Rice Curry" (that was Goat), "Chicken Curry Rice" and "Egg Curry Rice". There was and is a separate Vegetarian Refreshment Room.

But indeed if you go to a north Indian home, they would generally not be eating curries too often. We seldom eat curries at home, though the spices used in curries are used in other preparations that taste nothing like the classic curry.

You need to make sure that you ask for a mild sauce. There are certain parts, coastal Andhra Pradesh comes to mind, where normally they will serve a sauce that will clear your bowels for the next two days. :D

Indian Railways IRCTC food service will generally have at least one item identified as "Western" on their fare which will be something like a roast Chicken with Potatoes and such, pretty bland stuff, for those that cannot handle spices.

Another dish that is quite popular for a quick meal these days is the Biriyani. It is a Rice preparation with some spices and a protein additive of your choice (if non-veg). It is a meal in itself, and you don't have to deal with separate sauces and what not. Nothing to spill. Usually may come with a bit of Achaar - a spicy preserve of Mango or other veggies. Just avoid the hot stuff.

Incidentally beware that a very popular additive to Omelettes is little pieces of green chilly, which can be hit or miss as far as the level of heat goes. They are completely unpredictable, but it is also easy to sort them out and avoid them even if they are in the Omelette. They usually do not propagate their heat to the rest of the Omelette. They do add a nice subtle flavor if you like such.

Hope I obliged adequately :D Actually, though I would know more about down market street food and local food than up market anything since I seldom go to any restaurants in India. Those are for the tourists and foreigners and for extremely special celebrations where you want to spend a lot of money. :)

Lost for words, amazing, and thank you.
 
I have been holed up for a year too. I took my first train ride on SunRail weekend before last, and had lunch with @pennyk at our old tried and trusted eatery in Winter Park outside of course.

I am booked for a round trip by Amtrak to New York end of April. I also just booked my tickets on Amtrak for the AU Gathering which will hopefully take place in Chicago in October. So we'll see.

I am expecting to visit India early 2022, but I also expect to get a booster shot before doing so, since I will be coming upto my one year anniversary for the vaccination by then.

You sound confident about your travel plans, really hope you right as it's what I believe too. I think when a large majority of a country is imunised the outlook to most people will change almost overnight.
 
Ed and Jis, what about a joint book from the visitor and the insider, 'How to travel through India like a local'.

Thanks for indulging me on your thread Ed, and many many thanks to both of you for giving so much great information, it will take a while to digest (pun intended).
 
I can't fault you on your desire to sail from Dubai to India, gosh what an adventure that would be on a dhow! Back in 1983, we hoped to go by sea from Madras, as it was then, to Malaysia. Sadly we were a few years too late for the romance of such a trip. There are still places to be found as a passenger aboard some of the commercial ships today, but I know that is not what you intend.

Sadly the caravan was sold some years ago, it would be great as a country residence these days. I will get my second vaccine shot early May, then see what the travel rules are after 17 May. We are not allowed to holiday anywhere untill after May 17, but even that depends, etc, etc. I fancy a train trip to Scotland but they might be under different rules, or even building a wall by then, depending on the elections in May. ;)

I want to start my youtube channel instead of writing a book, and become rich and famous through the advertising revenue generated. (Don't hold your breath...) :D

Any chance to chit chat about India, travel, trains, is always welcome by me, so please post as much as you wish. (Chit Chat were a brand of Indian buiscuits in 1983, not sure if they survive today...)
 
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I can't fault you on your desire to sail from Dubai to India, gosh what an adventure that would be on a dhow! Back in 1983, we hoped to go by sea from Madras, as it was then, to Malaysia. Sadly we were a few years too late for the romance of such a trip. There are still places to be found as a passenger aboard some of the commercial ships today, but I know that is not what you intend.

Sadly the caravan was sold some years ago, it would be great as a country residence these days. I will get my second vaccine shot early May, then see what the travel rules are after 17 May. We are not allowed to holiday anywhere untill after May 17, but even that depends, etc, etc. I fancy a train trip to Scotland but they might be under different rules, or even building a wall by then, depending on the elections in May. ;)

I want to start my youtube channel instead of writing a book, and become rich and famous through the advertising revenue generated. (Don't hold your breath...) :D

Any chance to chit chat about India, travel, trains, is always welcome by me, so please post as much as you wish. (Chit Chat were a brand of Indian buiscuits in 1983, not sure if they survive today...)
There's a certain US rocket scientist we know swears by Ding Dongs, apparently they bring a certain clarity of thought? We've just discovered LuLus in France, but that is a longer story.
Don't get me started on the lady who ran up to us in a supermarket in Homestead, Florida with a terrifed desperate look on her face, that was about a biscuit too.

UAE to Mumbai: Dhows are now difficult apparently, but freight or container ships that will take passengers are to be had if you look hard enough.
 
You sound confident about your travel plans, really hope you right as it's what I believe too. I think when a large majority of a country is imunised the outlook to most people will change almost overnight.
I guess one plans based on the best information available.

My situation as far as traveling to India is concerned is different from many. Since I am an OCI Card holder I don;t need to get a visitor's visa of any sort, which are currently not available except for emergency travel. If I wished I could travel to India today, and clearly quite a number of people are traveling to and from between the US and India, enough to make it worthwhile for United and Air India to run 5 nonstop flights (777 or 787) between the US and India every day. I suppose the travelers are mostly US Citizens with OCI or Indian Citizens with US Green Cards.

Anyhow, the best info we have for now suggests that by October the currently developing wave will have substantially subsided and by early 2022, travel to India to will be much safer, after the currently developing second wave subsides and significant part of the country is vaccinated.

But of course, we'll see, and change plans as needed.
 
Jis, nothing to do with India or Bangladesh but noticed your location.

Do you take any interest of the happenings at Kennedy Space Centre, ie launches? If/when we get to the US this coming autumn we plan to ride a few trains, be in Chicago if the happening happens, and try to be in place for the first SLS launch.

If it doesn't have the slightest interest to you then don't give it a second thought, happy to buy you a beer though if we are within 50 miles of you.

Ed, I'll start a different thread re visiting Kennedy, just though this will catch Jis's eye here.
 
Jis, nothing to do with India or Bangladesh but noticed your location.

Do you take any interest of the happenings at Kennedy Space Centre, ie launches? If/when we get to the US this coming autumn we plan to ride a few trains, be in Chicago if the happening happens, and try to be in place for the first SLS launch.

If it doesn't have the slightest interest to you then don't give it a second thought, happy to buy you a beer though if we are within 50 miles of you.

Ed, I'll start a different thread re visiting Kennedy, just though this will catch Jis's eye here.
I live 25 miles due south of the launch pads at KSC and the Canaveral Space Force Station. As you know, only the 39 pads are in KSC. 40 and above are all in CSFS.

I am an Annual Member of KSC Visitor's Center. SLS launch will be a zoo down at KSC and will also probably cost several hundred dollars in viewing tickets. I will probably watch it from one of the beaches and stay away from KSC.

I generally ignore most pedestrian SpaceX and ULA launches. Only pay attention to really large rockets, Delta IV Heavy and such, and manned launches these days. There are way too many other launches to worry about. Besides I can see them all from my back porch if the weather is more or less clear and I am in the mood, and I can definitely hear them even sitting at my workstation inside.
 
I live 25 miles due south of the launch pads at KSC and the Canaveral Space Force Station. As you know, only the 39 pads are in KSC. 40 and above are all in CSFS.

I am an Annual Member of KSC Visitor's Center. SLS launch will be a zoo down at KSC and will also probably cost several hundred dollars in viewing tickets. I will probably watch it from one of the beaches and stay away from KSC.

I generally ignore most pedestrian SpaceX and ULA launches. Only pay attention to really large rockets, Delta IV Heavy and such, and manned launches these days. There are way too many other launches to worry about. Besides I can see them all from my back porch if the weather is more or less clear and I am in the mood, and I can definitely hear them even sitting at my workstation inside.

Didn't expect that, lucky you. SLS being unmanned, does that interest you?

When in the KSC area we usually stay in a small hotel in Cocoa Beach south, almost neighbours. I'll start a KSC thread in a month or so as it's very unfair to hi-jack Ed's thread.

How about is there a best time to visit India and Bangladesh re the monsoons and general weather?
 
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Didn't expect that, lucky you. SLS being unmanned, does that interest you?
Sure. Big rocket!
How about is there a best time to visit India and Bangladesh re the monsoons and general weather?
Winter. Airfares are also the lowest from about the second week of January to the end of February - mid March.
 
I have often been impatient to head off to India again on another mini adventure, and have visited as early as late August, big mistake! The monsoons tends to be tailing off around then, but it is too hot, especially in Rajasthan. October to March is said to be the best travel season, I have always visited before Xmas time, so it would be interesting to see how things are in Jis's recommended period. I seem to think North India can experience quite a lot of fog in the months after Xmas?
 
Can't beat a Wagon Wheel, especially the jammy ones! Mind you those Aussie Tim Tams are pretty good!
Confusing about biscuits in USA, they seem to be some sort of scones? I guess that's the way the biscuit crumbles...

Tim Tams are a national treasure right enough! I seek your advice as a trans-sib veteran. I was considering bringing some packets of TTs as gifts for the prodvonistas in my aborted TS trip last year. How d'you reckon that would go down as a small gift for them?
 
Tim Tams are a national treasure right enough! I seek your advice as a trans-sib veteran. I was considering bringing some packets of TTs as gifts for the prodvonistas in my aborted TS trip last year. How d'you reckon that would go down as a small gift for them?
Sorry, never taken the Trans Siberian, but I am sure Tim Tams would be acceptable. Any gesture of friendship is usually appreciated. (I got a free gift of ginsing when sharing my Chicago hostel room a few years back. Thousands of foreign visitors for Lions International meeting!) Jamie, VV, is the Trans Siberian chap...
 
How d'you reckon that would go down as a small gift for them?

Never seen or had a Tim Tam but if Ed says they're good they'll go down a treat. Just like anywhere, people enjoy recognition for doing a good job although tipping and gifts are not often practiced in Russia from my experience.

It will also depend on the route you take, more foreign visitors on the Moscow - China routes than the Vladivostok one, in winter anyway.

Trip of a lifetime, like nothing else and one of the few rail trips I would do twice at the drop of a hat, that and the Surfliner...

ps: watch out for the travelling military onboard, their Wodka drinking is legendary, and you can't say no if offered...
 
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I have often been impatient to head off to India again on another mini adventure, and have visited as early as late August, big mistake! The monsoons tends to be tailing off around then, but it is too hot, especially in Rajasthan. October to March is said to be the best travel season, I have always visited before Xmas time, so it would be interesting to see how things are in Jis's recommended period. I seem to think North India can experience quite a lot of fog in the months after Xmas?

Do you always try to cover the whole country when off to India or just a section. I suppose if it's only a section then time of year could play a big part.

BTW, will you try to get to the Gathering this year or is the Covid situation too serious? Not sure if you are vaccinated yet, we're not as couldn't easily get into and out of the UK last week. The people we know who are vaccinated appear to be liberated, even serious people.

Thanks for your inputs Ed, much appreciated. We're looking at various journeys for the next 18-24 months and will decide in what order as situations unfold. We are betting one of the safest countries in the world by September will be the US, and for various reasons would do almost anything to get to see the SLS rocket launch.

What a time we are living through eh, especially us Brits with Brexit tacked onto a worldwide pandemic.
 
Hi Jamie,

I would love to visit America again, it was next on my itinerary when Covid blew in. Funny enough, I was tonight just checking air fares to NYC and Chicago around Oct 2021... ;)

I have had my first AZ ***, next one due in early May.

I enjoy the long train rides in India, so have tended to travel around all over on each trip so far. I am not sure what shape my next visit will take, I would imagine that I will spend more time in one area. I felt that a shorter trip with a few more comforts might be better next time... Gosh, anywhere away from these 4 walls would be great now, except Skegness...

As for Brexit, I found that with having Irish parents, I am seen as automatically an Irish citizen too, so that is good news if I can remain in the EU. :D
 
Never seen or had a Tim Tam but if Ed says they're good they'll go down a treat. Just like anywhere, people enjoy recognition for doing a good job although tipping and gifts are not often practiced in Russia from my experience.

It will also depend on the route you take, more foreign visitors on the Moscow - China routes than the Vladivostok one, in winter anyway.

Trip of a lifetime, like nothing else and one of the few rail trips I would do twice at the drop of a hat, that and the Surfliner...

ps: watch out for the travelling military onboard, their Wodka drinking is legendary, and you can't say no if offered...


Thanks for that! My itinerary had me start at Vladivostok and end in Moscow, as it'd start off in my timezone with the clock-jumping on the return in the air. I was doing it in stages with quite a few overnighters off-train, so not in one go. I also didn't want the complications of China and Mongolia on this occasion - maybe they'll be for Ron.
 
Hi Jamie,

I would love to visit America again, it was next on my itinerary when Covid blew in. Funny enough, I was tonight just checking air fares to NYC and Chicago around Oct 2021... ;)

I have had my first AZ ***, next one due in early May.

I enjoy the long train rides in India, so have tended to travel around all over on each trip so far. I am not sure what shape my next visit will take, I would imagine that I will spend more time in one area. I felt that a shorter trip with a few more comforts might be better next time... Gosh, anywhere away from these 4 walls would be great now, except Skegness...

As for Brexit, I found that with having Irish parents, I am seen as automatically an Irish citizen too, so that is good news if I can remain in the EU. :D

What a gift they gave you, priceless.

Ireland is at or near the top of the list for places to live when we sell up here. We have visited a few times recently, have 4 cousins with families who moved there 10-15 years ago and by all accounts the Irish are cranky enough for us to feel at home there. Not got your good fortune to be Irish, you really are blessed.
 
Thanks for that! My itinerary had me start at Vladivostok and end in Moscow, as it'd start off in my timezone with the clock-jumping on the return in the air. I was doing it in stages with quite a few overnighters off-train, so not in one go. I also didn't want the complications of China and Mongolia on this occasion - maybe they'll be for Ron.

You are obviously travelling the TransSib to ride the train plus see and visit Russia in detail, most people think that is the best idea too. We are hooked into train life and were fascinated in how we would feel and cope being 6 1/2 days on a single train that only stops for 10 or 20 minutes at a time, it's just a different approach.

Which season do you intend travel in, do you have a preference?

Generalising the 2 trains that head south are a mix of visitors to Russia and commuter. The Vladovostok (in winter) is almost a commuter train only, Russians made up all the numbers except for the example below. There were only 4 western visitors on the entire train we travelled on, maybe 18 passenger cars in total with about 80% occupancy.

On our trip from Moscow eastwards there were 2 Third Class cars at the rear of the train, there were some Russians but mainly North Koreans going home after a stint of work near to Moscow, could be the longest commute in the world? at least by train.

Funny thing was the First Class car just along from ours was almost empty the whole way even though there were one or two high ranking military officers on board. Passing through to the diner it felt a bit soulless because of the lack of passengers.

You have a real adventure ahead of you, hope the situation allows you to travel soon.
 
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