Pets on Long Distance Trains

[jis]

And at the risk of reopening a can of worms, let me restate:

Emotional support animals are not service animals. A service animal must be trained to perform a specific task to assist or protect their owner, and must not be disruptive or threaten others. A facility accommodating the owner and animal is not permitted to ask the owner about their disability, but is allowed to ask about the specific task that the animal is expected to perform.

But like many other things, including not asking for proper valid tickets sometimes, it is something that may or may not be inquired about by anyone in a given instance. But that single experience should not be used to generalize to "what happens always".

 

[Ryan]

So you're saying that I should follow the rules, because they may be enforced, even if I've seen them not be enforced on a single occasion?

That's a pretty good idea!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I have a service dog, but he can’t hold his urine for hours like he should because of medical reasons.He has a bad heart so he is on a diuretic (water pill) 3 times a day. I have him wear a diaper just in case he has an accident and doesn’t make it outside in time. So you can’t always judge a dog by that. If he didn’t have that pill and his other meds he wouldn’t be alive today. Plus a service dog doesn’t have to be certified by law. Look it up. And they don’t actually have to wear a service vest but if the owner is responsible and to avoid problems they would have the dog wear one. I do because of all the fake ones out there.

Needing a diaper probably undermines whatever assurance a vest might provide.

 

[MARC Rider]

I think maybe they need to allow pets to travel in the baggage cars, like back in the Good Old Days, with passengers being allowed to check on their animals accompanied by train staff. I mean, every baggage car I've been able to look into, including superliner coach-bags, are close to empty, so there's lots of room for pet carriers.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I think maybe they need to allow pets to travel in the baggage cars, like back in the Good Old Days, with passengers being allowed to check on their animals accompanied by train staff. I mean, every baggage car I've been able to look into, including superliner coach-bags, are close to empty, so there's lots of room for pet carriers.

I support the premise but I would be concerned about reduced safety during grade crossing impacts. If carriers are placed in an open area like luggage it seems risky. Amtrak would also need to install highly reliable HVAC units to keep the pets comfortable and ensure every train has a working baggage car ready to go instead of being parked or used for axle counts.

 

[MARC Rider]

I support the premise but I would be concerned about reduced safety during grade crossing impacts. If carriers are placed in an open area like luggage it seems risky. Amtrak would also need to install highly reliable HVAC units to keep the pets comfortable and ensure every train has a working baggage car ready to go instead of being parked or used for axle counts.

Grade crossing impacts: All they need are attachment points to secure the pet carriers in which the pets are traveling. We used to drive our late kitty around in a carrier in our car. What if we got in a car crash? It turns out that nearly all pet carriers now have attachment points for seat belts. If we got in a crash, Kitty might have gotten banged around a bit, but wouldn't have been injured. (and our kitty didn't pass on to the Land of the Big Tuna Mountain because of a car crash.) And how might a grade crossing impact affect Fido or Kitty if they were sitting around in a sleeper of coach?

As for the need for HVAC, back in the Good Old Days, nobody had A/C, not the human passengers or any critters traveling in the baggage cars. And yet everybody was able to survive the trip. Having survived several weeks of a broken air conditioner in my bedroom in Baltimore this past August, I think that A/C, while nice, is not necessary for survival, especially if you can keep air moving about. (By the way, I had Covid-19 and recovered from it during the period my A/C was kaput.) I believe the V2 baggage car do have fans, and while I'm not sure, I can't imagine they don't have some sort of heating, as without it, liquids in your checked bags would be at risk of freezing solid. And based on my observation of neighborhood doggies and kitties running about during the winter, these critters don't need to be heated to 72 degrees F to be comfortable.

 

[Bonser]

I've yet to see a "legitimate" service animal on Amtrak. Real service animals are trained, highly trained. Every "service animal" I've encountered on Amtrak Long Distance trains was just someones pet. How do I know? Just watch the handler and the animal. Legitimate service animals are trained and experienced in holding their toilet need for many hours at a time. My father supported our family all his life training Police Service Animals.

All the animals (I can recall 4 as of this writing) I've witnessed on board Long Distance trains did indeed urinate and defecate while on board the train, commonly in the vestibule on the lower level of the sleeper car in front of the door while waiting for the train to come to a full halt at a stop, leaving the sleeping car attendant to deal with the mess.

I first-hand watched / witnessed a woman take her dog into a lower level toilet to let the dog relieve itself on the floor and walk away. I had exited the shower and casually waited until the woman left then looked into the bathroom. What made me suspect? The frowning glare / scowl she threw at me as she entered the toilet. I raised a fuss, personally confronted the woman, got the conductor involved but to no avail. Conductor was too "timid" to confront the woman and I personally helped the service car attendant clean up the mess.

All anyone has to do is make the claim that it's a service dog and the animal is on board.

Legitimate "Service Dog" certification proof needs to be implemented for an animal to be allowed to be on board. Just like a proof of rabies vaccination is required for everything, licensing, etc., even taking your dog into a groomer. And he handler needs to be held financially responsible for any and all "messes" caused by the animal.

And before I get slammed for this post by those AU members that have taken a dislike to my brutal honestly in my postings..............

NO, I don't hate dogs. I grew up with dogs and had dogs in my home my entire life.

I just hate obnoxious, selfish, inconsiderate, self-centered, arrogant people who think the rules are meant for everyone else but themselves.

Guess that means I hate 75% of mankind.

Y'all have a great day..................

I've witnessed a woman taken off the train by the conductor for A) taking her dog out at an unauthorized station stop. and B) not having a legitimate service tag. The dog had left its presence felt in the bottom of the superliner car. Her ouster was the was the highlight of the trip.

 

[Winecliff Station]

Needing a diaper probably undermines whatever assurance a vest might provide.

Not necessarily….I’ve seen service dogs on cruise ships wearing a diaper, even though they are trained. It actually gives the passengers and crew additional assurance.

 

[DonNewcomb]

I once flew coast-to-coast with a friend who liked to play the "emotional support animal" card to fly with her dogs. During the flight, someone's "emotional support" cat got loose and disappeared on the plane. Someone sitting near us had an "asthma attack" when she heard the word "cat". It was a zoo (literally as well as figuratively). I understand that airlines no longer provide in-cabin transportation to "emotional support" animals and that service animals can't be pigs, snakes, alligators or suchlike. It's about time.

I remember in the late '50s my Dad wanted to bring a hunting dog with us on a trip to Nebraska. The dog had to travel in a cage in the baggage car. I think Dad could visit the dog and walk it during stops but the dog wasn't with us in the room.

I have a lot of sympathy for people who are highly allergic to cats and dogs and don't understand why they should suffer simply because someone doesn't want to be separated from their pet.

 

[Marge]

Needing a diaper probably undermines whatever assurance a vest might provide.

Would you rather he didn’t wear a diaper and not make it outside in time to relieve himself by having an accident? Don’t you think that would be upsetting to the dog and everyone else? He is potty trained and will try to let me know but if he can’t make it outside in time due to his condition and medication it’s not his fault. We have to do what we need to.

 

[Northwestern]

Here is why I think Amtrak should never allow dogs or other pets on trains.

 

[John Bobinyec]

Was it a pet, or a service dog? If it was a pet, it should not, by Amtrak policy, have been allowed on the train, since it was too long a distance. If it was a service dog, I'm not sure what Amtrak's policy is, if the service dog misbehaves.

That being said, the incident didn't help Amtrak's cause at all and regardless of their official policy, it made them look like the cold, heartless robber barons of old.

jb

 

[MARC Rider]

Was it a pet, or a service dog? If it was a pet, it should not, by Amtrak policy, have been allowed on the train, since it was too long a distance. If it was a service dog, I'm not sure what Amtrak's policy is, if the service dog misbehaves.

That being said, the incident didn't help Amtrak's cause at all and regardless of their official policy, it made them look like the cold, heartless robber barons of old.

jb

I don't know about on trains, but a few years ago, I shared space in the Club Acela in Washington with a lady who had a poorly controlled canine that she claimed was a "service dog." This didn't stop the lounge attendant for threatening to eject her if she couldn't keep the pooch under control, and she was unfazed at an attempt to bring up the ADA, as apparently even under this law, no one has a right to inflict an uncontrolled service animal on to the general public. I didn't see how the episode ended, as I had to board my train and leave.

 

[zephyr17]

Was it a pet, or a service dog? If it was a pet, it should not, by Amtrak policy, have been allowed on the train, since it was too long a distance. If it was a service dog, I'm not sure what Amtrak's policy is, if the service dog misbehaves.

That being said, the incident didn't help Amtrak's cause at all and regardless of their official policy, it made them look like the cold, heartless robber barons of old.

jb

Amtrak was stupid not to have responded, especially because the reporter gets Amtrak's policies absolutely wrong.

Very poor, sensationalistic journalism with zero research.

 

[Asher]

Here is why I think Amtrak should never allow dogs or other pets on trains.

Pretty tough seeing Two ladies and their small dog tossed off a train in the middle of a 2000 mile trip. This don’t happen even in the movies.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Pretty tough seeing Two ladies and their small dog tossed off a train in the middle of a 2000 mile trip. This don’t happen even in the movies.

Then they should not have taken a non-service dog on the train with them. And it's not like they were let off at a grade crossing. And the police were still with them when the train pulled away.

Amtrak was stupid not to have responded, especially because the reporter gets Amtrak's policies absolutely wrong.

Very poor, sensationalistic journalism with zero research.

And why did the guy point out their race and their age. Those had nothing to do with why the were taken off the train.

 

[user 31218]

It’s beyond horrible to kick two elderly passengers off a train in the middle of Colorado over something so ridiculously stupid. And to have them escorted off by police!
Unless the dog was being aggressive, I don’t see how this was justified.

This is a serious issue. The fact that Amtrak has remained completely silent is also a head scratcher. They’re not even attempting to explain their side of the situation. Not even an apology. Just awful.

 

[Asher]

Then they should not have taken a non-service dog on the train with them. And it's not like they were let off at a grade crossing. And the police were still with them when the train pulled away.


And why did the guy point out their race and their age. Those had nothing to do with why the were taken off the train.

I’m sorry I can’t agree with the ruthless thinking that because we have a rule you’re getting off. I guess they had to wait until they got to a city with a police department to make sure they had the manpower to remove them.

 

[PVD]

It is interesting how people complain when the staff doesn't follow the "service standards" word for word and also complain when they do follow the rules because they thought discretion should be used. Amtrak does not permit ESA, they are considered pets. The ADA covers service dogs, not ESA. Pets must remain in carriers, and there is paperwork required in advance. Even an ADA permitted service animal is the responsibility of its handler and does not get a free pass for problems.

 

[zephyr17]

I’m sorry I can’t agree with the ruthless thinking that because we have a rule you’re getting off. I guess they had to wait until they got to a city with a police department to make sure they had the manpower to remove them.

I fully agree with the decision to remove those passengers with a dog from the train at the first opportunity. Even with the report's obvious slant in favor of the dog owners, they said it was defecating and urinating onboard. Although they portrayed it as no big deal (it is).

Amtrak's policy now is to remove passengers at station stops where at all possible. Only if there was a situation where the person is combative, engaging in criminal behavior or unable to care for themselves (i.e. falling down drunk) do they do remove passengers at grade crossings and then only into the arms of law enforcement.

I do wonder how they continued their journey. The report said they could continue the next day. But it would have to have been without the dog, I imagine the reservation was flagged and perhaps even the next day's crew notified to watch out. Their only real options with the dog would have been to either try to fly with it, it is small enough to be allowed in the cabin in a carrier, or rent a car. Continuing on Amtrak should not have been an option with that dog.

I feel sorry for the ladies, but actions have consequences and Amtrak's pet policies are clear and easy to find. They should have boarded the dog or gotten a pet sitter, since Amtrak's policy that pets would not be allowed for that trip is very clear.

 

[zephyr17]

Pretty tough seeing Two ladies and their small dog tossed off a train in the middle of a 2000 mile trip. This don’t happen even in the movies.

"Reservations with pets are limited to seven hours total travel time, including transfer time between trains on multiple-segment trips."

That's actual real life. Cute doggies running around on trains (and not having bodily functions) is what happens in movies.

A 2000 mile trip on the California Zephyr is a whole lot longer than 7 hours. The passengers either had not tried to add their pet to the reservation, or did try, couldn't do it, and brought it onboard anyway.

Either way, this is an unfortunate case, but they have no one to blame but themselves.

 

[joelkfla]

"Reservations with pets are limited to seven hours total travel time, including transfer time between trains on multiple-segment trips."

That's actual real life. Cute doggies running around on trains (and not having bodily functions) is what happens in movies.

A 2000 mile trip on the California Zephyr is a whole lot longer than 7 hours. The passengers either had not tried to add their pet to the reservation, or did try, couldn't do it, and brought it onboard anyway.

Either way, this is an unfortunate case, but they have no one to blame but themselves.

Agree, except for the matter of blame.

If the TA was present when they boarded, and compassionately allowed them to board with the dog, then the TA is also to blame, and needs a learning moment.

 

[Henry Kisor]

I'm a service dog handler and agree completely with Amtrak's actions. These rule-breaking shenanigans with non-service animals just makes things more difficult for us.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Well, well, well. As usual, we don't know the whole story. However, it appears the AC on the train does. If you're on Facebook and belong to the Amtrak Fans group, check out a comment to one of the posts about the incident. Hint: the crew tried to accommodate the lady & her dog, but she was not cooperating.

 

[Palmland]

On our recent AutoTrain trip we were surprised to see several service dogs. This included two chihuahuas seated next to us. I was surprised that the handler encouraged us to pet them, She said they had received certification after training courses but it was hard to tell as one tried to climb in my lap. But we were glad to get our dog fix!

I asked how the dogs relieved themselves and she said service dogs are allowed off the train at the Florence, SC service stop in the middle of the night and the SCA wakes them up before arrival there. I do wonder what happens when the train is delayed significantly as one trip we experienced.