Philadelphia to Seattle- A cost Comparison Plane vs Train

[amamba]

This might be a bit OT, but I'm always curious how do people manage to get so many AGR points to afford a roomette? I'm lucky if I get 2000 points a year for AGR

I easily accumulate 2000-3000 points a month by charging almost all household/family purchased to my AGR card. Plus my H is S+ and has a monthly pass for commuting which generates another 1500 points a month. In three years I have redeemed over 150k points worth of free Amtrak travel in bedrooms.

 

[oregon pioneer]

Three nights on the train in a sleeper might be cheaper than airfare plus three nights in a hotel, but in most cases, the alternative would be spending those three extra nights at home, which comes at no additional cost.
As others have noted, choosing to take LD trains vs. planes (especially for those looking at first class fares for either mode) is a matter of preference for how to get there, and not one of finding the cheapest mode (which neither first class air nor sleeper by train qualifies).

You may be correct, if you're talking about the train (or plane) as merely a way to get to the destination, but... I would not be spending the three extra nights at home, because my idea of a vacation is a "hotel" that is moving along the rails and past the views, ha, ha! In my case (and I suspect certain others on this discussion board), we *are* comparing those three nights to three nights in a hotel! BTW, if just "gettng there" is the idea, I will probably be flying (and hating every minute). As they say, "when you fly, the vacation starts when you arrive at the destination, and when you take the train, the vacation starts as soon as you step aboard."

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Let me try one: San Francisco to Los Angeles on Wednesday, August 28:
San Francisco to SJC via Caltrain (4-zone trip): $9.00 (vending machine) or $8.75 (Clipper Card)

SJC to LAX: $55.00

Total: $64.00 or $63.75

(No Thruway bus service between San Francisco and Emeryville on Wednesday through Labor Day weekend due to the Bay Bridge closure.)

SFO to LAX on Wednesday, August 28:

Southwest Airlines (Anytime Fare): $215

United Airlines (lowest fare): $215

Changing the United parameters for "Any airport" in the Bay Area to "Any airport" in the L.A. area gives the same results.

It will be interesting to see how the fares compare once the bullet train gets to be up and running (assuming it ever does).

Just going to add some Greyhound fares, for tommorow, 27 August 2013, the SFD-LAD fare is $32. If you book in advance, it goes down to $27. On some days, like 25 September, you can do it for only $10!

Three nights on the train in a sleeper might be cheaper than airfare plus three nights in a hotel, but in most cases, the alternative would be spending those three extra nights at home, which comes at no additional cost.
As others have noted, choosing to take LD trains vs. planes (especially for those looking at first class fares for either mode) is a matter of preference for how to get there, and not one of finding the cheapest mode (which neither first class air nor sleeper by train qualifies).

You may be correct, if you're talking about the train (or plane) as merely a way to get to the destination, but... I would not be spending the three extra nights at home, because my idea of a vacation is a "hotel" that is moving along the rails and past the views, ha, ha! In my case (and I suspect certain others on this discussion board), we *are* comparing those three nights to three nights in a hotel! BTW, if just "gettng there" is the idea, I will probably be flying (and hating every minute). As they say, "when you fly, the vacation starts when you arrive at the destination, and when you take the train, the vacation starts as soon as you step aboard."

True, but most of us workin people don't have enough days off to be riding around on a train instead of flying. That is important to consider and porbably explains why over half of all Amtrak riders are seniors.

Here's a comparison for my now-frequented San Francisco-Reno route (taken from respective websites):

Amtrak:

All fares: $51-$61 flat

Greyhound:

Weekday in advance: $10

Weekday last-minute: $12

Weekend in advance: $13

Don't know the weekend last-minute fares.

Flights:

Nonstops in advance: $139-$307

Nonstop last-minute: still $307

 

[Dan O]

This might be a bit OT, but I'm always curious how do people manage to get so many AGR points to afford a roomette? I'm lucky if I get 2000 points a year for AGR

Gas, groceries and college tuition. That's $4-5K every month.

 

[Shortline]

This might be a bit OT, but I'm always curious how do people manage to get so many AGR points to afford a roomette? I'm lucky if I get 2000 points a year for AGR

Its amazing how fast points add up, if you travel a lot, by any method-Travel programs netted me a lot of my Amtrak points, but ironically very few percentage wise, by riding Amtrak-most of mine came from partner earnings-earning 500-1000 PTA a night at Hilton, depending on the promotion, 350/400 per day for rental cars, etc) the AGR MasterCard, and earning through the shopping portal netted me somewhere around 180,000 over the last 20 months. It's slowed down a lot, changed my earnings to Priority Club over Hilton, and am now earning FF miles on my car rentals and most of the shopping portal as well as changing to an airline FF credit card. Just simply have enough train pints for a while. Used 50,000 last month for 2 night, 2 bedroom trip on the TE and CONO, and booked the same, for next spring, 2 BR round trip. Still have more than enough for a 1 zone RT in roomette, which I'll hang on to as seed point, and just let it grow. Family took a train trip in July, we'll do it again next year, with the MIL because we promised, but we want to take other trips, like kayaking in Colorado, or the Ozarks where taking our RV makes more sense. Saving the airline FF points mostly for emergencies, and/or an overseas trip one of these days.
That's one of the ironic things about business travel,you travel so much to earn so many points, that when it comes time to use them, the thought of traveling commercially and staying in a hotel for fun becomes abhorrent!

 

[Barciur]

Yeah that makes perfect sense.. the AGR Mastercard works. I'm only 20 with no credit record, so currently I have no way of getting that one.. in the future, hopefully.

 

[Nathanael]

If I hadn't gotten defrauded by Chase, I would have kept the AGR Mastercard, but I'm not going through that again. Not worth it.

 

[benale]

I've taken three one way trips in a roomette for two since 2010. I take many short trips in the spring and fall when Amtrak has their double points promotion. I usually pay $22 with a senior discount round trip on the Keystone service. That's 400 points round trip and by doing one of these little jaunts once a week the points really add up. We have 15,400 points now and I really hope Amtrak does their double points next month so I can get to 20,000 by the end of the year and take a two zone AGR redemption next year.

 

[amamba]

If I hadn't gotten defrauded by Chase, I would have kept the AGR Mastercard, but I'm not going through that again. Not worth it.

What happened?

 

[Devil's Advocate]

It's a bit disingenuous to factor in hotel costs for the nights you're on the train in your overall cost comparison. Three nights on the train in a sleeper might be cheaper than airfare plus three nights in a hotel, but in most cases, the alternative would be spending those three extra nights at home, which comes at no additional cost.
It's also not quite a fair comparison to use airline first class vs. Amtrak sleeper. If I'm going to be on a train for 48 hours, I'm going to travel in a sleeper not because I'm a high-priced, first class kind of person, but because I like having a bed to sleep in at night and a private area to relax in for extended periods if I'm not doing anything else. But to cover the equivalent distance by air would take four hours, so I could easily do that in a regular coach seat (just as I probably wouldn't buy a sleeper for a four-hour train trip unless it was really cheap).

Exactly.

If I hadn't gotten defrauded by Chase, I would have kept the AGR Mastercard, but I'm not going through that again. Not worth it.

What happened?

I'm curious as well. I haven't had any problems with my AGR card. Or my Sapphire, Ink, or Freedom cards. The Chase United card has been nothing but trouble though.

 

[calwatch]

Sleeper travel on a train is not comparable to any other mode of transportation, at least within the continent. It is a vacation in itself and I treat it as part of the vacation. I do travel within California for work, family, and personal reasons and my mode of transportation is dependent on how much time I have, what time I want to depart, and how much the fare is. Sometimes I will fly, but if I have the time I will take ground transportation just because of the reduced hassle in getting to an airport and the better public transportation options once I get to my destination.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Sleeper travel on a train is not comparable to any other mode of transportation, at least within the continent. It is a vacation in itself and I treat it as part of the vacation. I do travel within California for work, family, and personal reasons and my mode of transportation is dependent on how much time I have, what time I want to depart, and how much the fare is. Sometimes I will fly, but if I have the time I will take ground transportation just because of the reduced hassle in getting to an airport and the better public transportation options once I get to my destination.

But it's very hard to compare any mode of travel to any other. Flying is still the fastest, and you could say that no other mode of transport can compare in speed to the airliner, at least over long distances.

Hassles at the airport really aren't that bad, the big problems are the tight seats and poor service.

 

[Barciur]

Hassles at the airport really aren't that bad, the big problems are the tight seats and poor service.

That depends.. there is restricted baggage, you're very restricted in what you can bring on board and for me, that is way more than enough to say that this is a big hassle.

 

[chakk]

$974 RT uncomfortable economy seats on a plane non stop for 2 seniors to Santa Fe (ABQ then drive rental or have someone pick us up or take the rail runner. Not sure of the cost.) from Roc - our closest airport - Oct 20 to Nov 2. Plus pay to park the car long term. Stand in line remove shoes, Throw out things I did not realize I could not take on a plane and go from one airport to the next that look exactly alike.
ROC to LAMY same dates - RT in coach senior discount seats $700. Much cheaper for us. We used AGR and booked a roomette for TOL to LAMY both ways and are paying @212 for coach on the LSL both ways. @ nights on train with 5 meals and use of the Metro in Chicago. MUCH better deal than flying. No hassles and as Diagrua says, actually see where we are going.

I wish they had train to Hawaii.

Santa Fe has an airport;, with nonstop flights daily from Denver, Dallas, Phoenix, and Los Angeles.

 

[mjaynes288]

Hassles at the airport really aren't that bad, the big problems are the tight seats and poor service.

Maybe for you. I wear leg braces. I have to get a pat down to go thru security. I hated the pat down before they were enhanced (to include groping). I once had to wait over an hour for the TSA to find a female sceener who was not terrified of my service dog. I have food allergies and trying to bring food I can eat thru the checkpoint is not worth the hassle. The nearest commercial airport is a $40 shuttle ride away compared to the Amtrak station in walking distance.

I actually prefer coach airline seats to superliner seats. I am short, petite and have very tight hamstrings and a bad back. Superliner seats are to deep (cannot bend my knees and use the back of the seat) and provide no lateral support (armrests). Coach airline seats also seem more padded but that might just be the lack of bumps in the air. Even with Amtrak's painful seats I will take the train to avoid the TSA and paying for the long ride to the airport.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Hassles at the airport really aren't that bad, the big problems are the tight seats and poor service.

That depends.. there is restricted baggage, you're very restricted in what you can bring on board and for me, that is way more than enough to say that this is a big hassle.

Dosen't really matter for me since I rarely fly domestic and I only do for work-related reasons. When I'm travelling for work, which is rare anyway, I don't take enough bags to worry about the checked baggage hassles.

Besides, even if you have to take lots of checked baggage, you might as well sort them all out beforehand and you should have a much easier time at the airport. Do research about the baggage limits and the surchages. The extra time at the airport, just treat it as some time to stand around and think outside of normal busy hours.

Hassles at the airport really aren't that bad, the big problems are the tight seats and poor service.

Maybe for you. I wear leg braces. I have to get a pat down to go thru security. I hated the pat down before they were enhanced (to include groping). I once had to wait over an hour for the TSA to find a female sceener who was not terrified of my service dog. I have food allergies and trying to bring food I can eat thru the checkpoint is not worth the hassle. The nearest commercial airport is a $40 shuttle ride away compared to the Amtrak station in walking distance.

I actually prefer coach airline seats to superliner seats. I am short, petite and have very tight hamstrings and a bad back. Superliner seats are to deep (cannot bend my knees and use the back of the seat) and provide no lateral support (armrests). Coach airline seats also seem more padded but that might just be the lack of bumps in the air. Even with Amtrak's painful seats I will take the train to avoid the TSA and paying for the long ride to the airport.

Very interesting that you would have exactly the opposite opinion as me. I usually have no problem with TSA, I check up all the regulations beforehand and make security as painless as possible. The main problems are the poor legroom and the modern slimline seats have very little padding. Airline seats are even less comfortable for me than Greyhound's heavily padded DL3 seats, though not every Greyhound is a DL3.

 

[calwatch]

It's the reduced hassles getting to a train station versus the airport. Security is the big chokepoint at any airport, even if you have followed all the direction to the letter, untied your shoes at the checkpoint, taken your laptop, etc. someone else who hasn't is going to slow down the line. Pre Check is no guarantee of compliance with that either, it just lets you bypass some traffic since you could still be randomly diverted. And the plane isn't going to wait for you to get through security.

Meanwhile, just this Saturday I dropped someone off at Union Station after we went to a Dodger game, literally three minutes before the train was scheduled to depart (and while the train was actually at the station according to the status map). Once I pulled into the driveway I informed them it was in the station and to make a run for it, and they got on. Try dropping someone off even 20 minutes before an airplane is scheduled to depart and see if they get past security on time, or whether a "meticulous" TSA screener gives them the treatment.

The biggest annoyance in travel is variability. Once you are in the air travel time is constant but there is variability at the departure end. On a train the variability is the duration of travel time. In my own car there is no variability in arrival but depending on the time of day huge variability in travel time.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I will speak for myself with honesty. I have never experienced the supposed horrors of going through security. I just line up and get through smootly, since I never take anything that could pose a direct threat to air safety.

Note that I am not an avid flyer, since I prefer Amtrak or even a LD Greyhound over flying in a plane.

 

[Alexandria Nick]

Try dropping someone off even 20 minutes before an airplane is scheduled to depart and see if they get past security on time, or whether a "meticulous" TSA screener gives them the treatment.

There's also practical considerations here: 20 minutes isn't enough time to get through the terminal at major airports even after you're through security!

 

[Barciur]

I will speak for myself with honesty. I have never experienced the supposed horrors of going through security. I just line up and get through smootly, since I never take anything that could pose a direct threat to air safety.
Note that I am not an avid flyer, since I prefer Amtrak or even a LD Greyhound over flying in a plane.

Try taking any kind of food, a laptop, electronics, and any kind of liquids and there you go.

I never travel on domestic routes, only transatlantic flights, so maybe my view of this is a bit skewed, I don't know, but I always have issues with security, be it in the US or the UK.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I will speak for myself with honesty. I have never experienced the supposed horrors of going through security. I just line up and get through smootly, since I never take anything that could pose a direct threat to air safety.
Note that I am not an avid flyer, since I prefer Amtrak or even a LD Greyhound over flying in a plane.

Try taking any kind of food, a laptop, electronics, and any kind of liquids and there you go.

I never travel on domestic routes, only transatlantic flights, so maybe my view of this is a bit skewed, I don't know, but I always have issues with security, be it in the US or the UK.

Wow, I rarely fly domestic either! OK, I take a laptop and electronics, but no cell phones or liquid whatsoever. Security has been OK and the time spent at the airport for me is no match for the flight time spent on a widebody flying the Great Circle.

 

[Trogdor]

Flying domestic or international, there is no difference in the security you're subjected to (at least, not at the security checkpoint) when departing from a US airport. All passengers funnel through the same checkpoints and the planes often board from the same gates.

International travelers may be given additional scrutiny, but it doesn't happen at the checkpoint. So, comparing one's TSA screening experiences doesn't make a difference if you are traveling domestic or international.

 

[Porter20]

I found this thread extremely interesting & agree with several points in it - mostly that we look to the Train travel as part of our vacation which is much different than most of the mindset of other travelers.

I will give you a recent situation that worked well for us & I recognize it's unique. We got a last minute notice about a family event in NYC. When we started looking at flights, we could find them for $125 one way but we had to take the early morning flight in the morning. Afternoon flights were $250 - $350 based on the carrier. We need to be there Friday and some of Saturday. So we were stuck - fly home Saturday afternoon at high price or leave Sunday morning but book a $200 + hotel and have another affordable dinner in NYC (lol). None of these options seemed good. But we found a late afternoon train and got a roommette that was cheaper than a hotel and the one-way ticket was cheaper than the one way flight (and it includes dinner). We had the time - still getting home at the same time as the Sunday morning flight. So it worked well for us.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I gotta admit, there's all kings of enthusiasts out there. Quite a lot of people love flying different planes, and they view the flight as part of their vacation. Less people do the same thing with buses, but you get my point. Go to something like www.airliners.net and there's plenty of plane foamers that get crazy excited about flying a 732 or a DC-9.

 

[daveyb99]

But what you must remember about airfares: airlines are NOT charging what they should be, and instead are lumping on fees to cover their costs ... fees which raise them $$-Billions in revenue.