George K
Conductor
Now *there's* a glass-half-empty type of guy.
Points Purchase Limit is Raised (but price per point increased)
- Thread starter hessjm
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For what it's worth, Hyatt also has points plus cash, although I understand individual hotels can set low capacities. At least some Intercontinenta Hotels Group (Holiday Inn family and ohers) also have points plus cash, but I have never seen what I would consider to be a decent redemption rate for the points.
Rail Freak
Engineer
FrensicPic has it right,I believe. Price of pts. have increased, waiting on the increase in redemptions!!!
Ryan
Court Jester
There was a brief window of time yesterday where the limit had been raised, but the cost was still the same. I verified that 10,000 still cost $275, and you could get 15,000 + 4,500 bonus for $415.50.
That's only 500 points shy of a 2 zone roomette, and one hell of a deal for those that jumped on it.
That's only 500 points shy of a 2 zone roomette, and one hell of a deal for those that jumped on it.
Saw that yesterday when I checked...still $275. Guess I should "jumped" on it then!
Even at 3.7 cents per point, the 19,500 points is $555 right now.
Combine that with 500 points in sign-up bonus, or even $250 in Amtrak tickets, and it's still cheaper than the $1000+ TOL-EMY in a roomette can cost.
Even 20k points bought without the offers over two years is $740.
Combine that with 500 points in sign-up bonus, or even $250 in Amtrak tickets, and it's still cheaper than the $1000+ TOL-EMY in a roomette can cost.
Even 20k points bought without the offers over two years is $740.
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Yep,the story of my life! A day late and a dollar short!
Bigval109
OBS Chief
Did the price of points go up? When I went to buy 5000 points the cost was $188. not $137.50 as shown above.
Is this right? please check in case I did something wrong.
The price went UP last night...from $0.0275 to $0.0377 per point! :angry:
Bigval109
OBS Chief
It was a big shock
to me when I went to buy the points and discovered the price of pointshad gone up.
Right now I dont quite know what to do. :blink:
Bigval109
OBS Chief
I'm a member of that club, a day late and a dollar short. Was there any warning about the
price increase?
Bigval109
OBS Chief
I just checked and the price of 10000 points went up $100.It was a big shock
had gone up.
That's quite a jump :help:Devil's Advocate
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I'm sorry you had to find out the hard way.I just checked and the price of 10000 points went up $100.It was a big shock
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calwatch
Lead Service Attendant
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2010
- Messages
- 428
If you are going to buy points and have decent credit this makes getting points from Chase or SPG even more worthwhile. Chase Sapphire Preferred, Chase Ink Plus, and AMEX SPG all have no annual fee for the first year and have good sign up bonuses. If you need more points you can join the frequent flyers and pay taxes for two pennies a point, or buy Visa gift cards that can be converted into money orders for about a penny a point. Incidentally this is why I think a devaluation is inevitable, once all the airlines finish their devaluations in the next couple years. It's too easy to manufacture points with sign up bonuses and spend.
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While I agree with the other posters about "missing" the day or so when the price was lower, let's remember that while many of us come/came to this forum in order to find ways to MAXIMIZE our point redemption, and point accumulation, the "health" of Amtrak should also be a concern, at least at some level.
Yield Management needs to take into account the occupancy of sleepers by those using points, (not matter how accumulated, bought, traded, earned, transferred, etc.) And I've got to believe that having too many beds occupied by "points" when, (if) they could have been "sold" to cash-paying customers, is not in the best interest of Amtrak.
Granted, points-partners "pay" Amtrak for the points, just like the company that facilitates "Buying Points", AND, when one buys points, Amtrak is getting a certain percentage of the revenue up-front, and as any business person knows, "cash-is-king".
But if Amtrak's sleeper demand really is non-elastic, (And I doubt it, I think they are just trying to find the sweet-spot, except for the Cardinal, which does seem non-elastic) then raising the price for the sleepers, no matter what avenue a traveler takes to get those points, makes sense for Amtrak's bottom line.
In one sense, it's kind of hard to believe that Amtrak even has a loyalty program, as they are THEE only game in town for LD travel... But, if done right, the loyalty program CAN be a profit-generator, IF done right.
Yield Management needs to take into account the occupancy of sleepers by those using points, (not matter how accumulated, bought, traded, earned, transferred, etc.) And I've got to believe that having too many beds occupied by "points" when, (if) they could have been "sold" to cash-paying customers, is not in the best interest of Amtrak.
Granted, points-partners "pay" Amtrak for the points, just like the company that facilitates "Buying Points", AND, when one buys points, Amtrak is getting a certain percentage of the revenue up-front, and as any business person knows, "cash-is-king".
But if Amtrak's sleeper demand really is non-elastic, (And I doubt it, I think they are just trying to find the sweet-spot, except for the Cardinal, which does seem non-elastic) then raising the price for the sleepers, no matter what avenue a traveler takes to get those points, makes sense for Amtrak's bottom line.
In one sense, it's kind of hard to believe that Amtrak even has a loyalty program, as they are THEE only game in town for LD travel... But, if done right, the loyalty program CAN be a profit-generator, IF done right.
crescent2
Conductor
Well, Jim and others, I'm a day late and dollar short, too. I checked as soon as I got the email the other day, and the full 15,000 + 30% bonus points was $412.50. Guess I should have acted then. :unsure: Now I'm undecided, as the remaining LD trips I want to take (other than ATN-NOL, which is too cheap to bother using precious points) are always so iffy to pull off for me.
And, for some of us, the double days and points runs aren't an option because of where we live.
Really wishing I'd jumped on the offer when I first got the email! sigh
And, for some of us, the double days and points runs aren't an option because of where we live.
Really wishing I'd jumped on the offer when I first got the email! sigh
I just "re-calculated" two recent AGR redemption trips and one upcoming AGR redemption trip at the old (.0275) vs the new (.0377) price per points. When I booked these trips via AGR, I also did a "test" reservation for the same trips on the same days to see the cash cost. The new AGR points rate pretty much eliminates the cost advantage of using points (if purchased rather than earned via credit card or shopping mall purchases).
The three trips were a
3 zone bedroom - The "cost" of the points was about $80 less than the cash fare.
2 zone bedroom - The "cost" of the points was only slightly less than the cash fare.
1 zone bedroom - the "cost' of the points was $50 more than the cash fare.
That said, purchasing points during a promotion of a 30% bonus helps. Many of my points are earned via my AGR MasterCard and use of the AGR shopping mall rather than annual purchase of points. By accumulating points, I am able to "pay" for a trip in advance, even before actually booking a trip.
I will continue to purchase the maximum (now 15k at $0.0377) each year when the bonus promotion is in effect. Hopefully, they don't increase the points amount required for redeeming points!
The three trips were a
3 zone bedroom - The "cost" of the points was about $80 less than the cash fare.
2 zone bedroom - The "cost" of the points was only slightly less than the cash fare.
1 zone bedroom - the "cost' of the points was $50 more than the cash fare.
That said, purchasing points during a promotion of a 30% bonus helps. Many of my points are earned via my AGR MasterCard and use of the AGR shopping mall rather than annual purchase of points. By accumulating points, I am able to "pay" for a trip in advance, even before actually booking a trip.
I will continue to purchase the maximum (now 15k at $0.0377) each year when the bonus promotion is in effect. Hopefully, they don't increase the points amount required for redeeming points!
I'm about 40 miles from the nearest Amtrak station. During Double Days point runs are now much more economical for me than buying points with the pretty hefty increase,even with the bonus. Of course, you get a little train ride out of it too. As other posters have stated I hope this isn't a prelude to higher redemption points. The 2 zone roomette at 20,000 is still a good deal. i hope we don't see that jump to 25,000.
Devil's Advocate
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I've been following the points game for over a decade and I've learned when to wait for the other shoe to drop.Now *there's* a glass-half-empty type of guy.
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- Joined
- Jul 16, 2010
- Messages
- 4,894
It all depends on the price of the tickets at the time. My last trip (GRV-->TOL-->DER KAL-->ABQ ABQ-->GRV) was 90K points or $4600. That comes out to $.05+ per point. Buying points would be a great deal as compared to paying cash. That's $3300 in cost w/o any bonus. Given that I and my wife could purchase 15K each in December and another 15K in January, we could go the following year after buying another 15K each.
Now that doesn't include the following benefits:
Point bonuses
Ability to cancel w/o penalty at the last minute
Ability to change reservations w/o penalty at the last minute
5% AGR Chase card refund of points
minus the loss:
I wouldn't get the points for paying cash.
So, without the extras and loss, it is still a great deal.
Agreed. My calculations above were strictly using the new point purchase cost. A number of my points come from other sources such as regular use of the Chase AGR credit card and the AGR Shopping Portal which changes the actual cost of point.
The perks you mention above are great. As I pointed out in my post, I (and my wife too) will continue to purchase points during the bonus times.
Amtrak George
Lead Service Attendant
It's been a while since I purchased points and I would like to take advantage of the 15,000 point / 30% bonus offer. When I log in to purchase points (haven't bought any this year) do I list 15,000 as what I want to buy? And then, does the system automatically add the bonus?
Yes, you would list the 15,000 as your amount. I have always had the bonus added immediately, but I have heard of instances where this was not the case. They are supposed to be added immediately though.
the_traveler
Engineer
Yes, chose how many you want to purchase (without the bonus), and you will get the bonus amount added. (Buy 10,000 and receive 13,000, buy 15,000 and receive 19,500)
Devil's Advocate
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Have you ever spent or seriously entertained spending $4,600 in cash on Amtrak tickets before? If not, how can you claim your points are worth an amount you would never actually spend? If Amtrak raises the cost further is there a level at which you'd admit the price was beyond relevance for factoring the practical value of points? I'm find the concept of valuing points at a price beyond actual consideration to be rather confusing and pointless.
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