Power outage at crossings causes Downeaster cancellations?

[rspenmoll]

I just read this article saying that some Downeaster trains todaywere canceled because a power outage caused some grade crossing signals to fail. This doesn't make much sense to me. Can't the crew just stop the train ahead of the affected crossings and have a crew member flag it through? I'm wondering if the reporter is either mistaken or was given bad information and that the real issue was that the power outage caused the failure of the railroad signaling and forced a reversion to train order operation. Does anyone know the real story?

https://www.necn.com/news/business/Amtrak-Downeaster-Cancellations-Power-Outages-454272293.html

 

[west point]

PAR may have no or very old battery back ups ?

 

[rspenmoll]

PAR may have no or very old battery back ups ?

I understand that. My question is, if the crossing signals aren't working, can't the train just be flagged through the crossing? That's why I'm wondering if maybe the reporter was misinformed and that the actual problem was that the track signals failed, forcing a reversion to train order operations which, I imagine would reduce capacity.

 

[Thirdrail7]

PAR may have no or very old battery back ups ?

I understand that. My question is, if the crossing signals aren't working, can't the train just be flagged through the crossing? That's why I'm wondering if maybe the reporter was misinformed and that the actual problem was that the track signals failed, forcing a reversion to train order operations which, I imagine would reduce capacity.

Sure, you can flag the crossings. However, depending on the amount of crossings, it could cause a major delay, which would cascade. This is especially true if there are other trains out there, doing the same thing.

Remember, a train represents another train. Now the train arrives late, and the crew and the train turns late for its next run. Now, you have another late train out there, impacting meets and delaying other moves. Crews time out. It is mess.

I can see them "thinning the ranks" based upon the outages.

 

[rspenmoll]

PAR may have no or very old battery back ups ?

I understand that. My question is, if the crossing signals aren't working, can't the train just be flagged through the crossing? That's why I'm wondering if maybe the reporter was misinformed and that the actual problem was that the track signals failed, forcing a reversion to train order operations which, I imagine would reduce capacity.

Sure, you can flag the crossings. However, depending on the amount of crossings, it could cause a major delay, which would cascade. This is especially true if there are other trains out there, doing the same thing.

Remember, a train represents another train. Now the train arrives late, and the crew and the train turns late for its next run. Now, you have another late train out there, impacting meets and delaying other moves. Crews time out. It is mess.

I can see them "thinning the ranks" based upon the outages.

I see. Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how many crossings there are on the route of the Downeaster?

 

[Thirdrail7]

PAR may have no or very old battery back ups ?

I understand that. My question is, if the crossing signals aren't working, can't the train just be flagged through the crossing? That's why I'm wondering if maybe the reporter was misinformed and that the actual problem was that the track signals failed, forcing a reversion to train order operations which, I imagine would reduce capacity.

Sure, you can flag the crossings. However, depending on the amount of crossings, it could cause a major delay, which would cascade. This is especially true if there are other trains out there, doing the same thing.

Remember, a train represents another train. Now the train arrives late, and the crew and the train turns late for its next run. Now, you have another late train out there, impacting meets and delaying other moves. Crews time out. It is mess.

I can see them "thinning the ranks" based upon the outages.

I see. Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how many crossings there are on the route of the Downeaster?

I stopped counting at 72 and that is just randomly selected mileposts between New Hampshire and part of Maine. It doesn't include Massachusetts or north of Portland. For the record, there are 12 grade crossings between MP 195 and 193 alone.

 

[rspenmoll]

PAR may have no or very old battery back ups ?

I understand that. My question is, if the crossing signals aren't working, can't the train just be flagged through the crossing? That's why I'm wondering if maybe the reporter was misinformed and that the actual problem was that the track signals failed, forcing a reversion to train order operations which, I imagine would reduce capacity.

Sure, you can flag the crossings. However, depending on the amount of crossings, it could cause a major delay, which would cascade. This is especially true if there are other trains out there, doing the same thing.

Remember, a train represents another train. Now the train arrives late, and the crew and the train turns late for its next run. Now, you have another late train out there, impacting meets and delaying other moves. Crews time out. It is mess.

I can see them "thinning the ranks" based upon the outages.

I see. Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how many crossings there are on the route of the Downeaster?

I stopped counting at 72 and that is just randomly selected mileposts between New Hampshire and part of Maine. It doesn't include Massachusetts or north of Portland. For the record, there are 12 grade crossings between MP 195 and 193 alone.

Wow! That is certainly a large number of crossings. I can see now why that would be a problem. I have another question by the way, that I alluded to in my initial post. I know this ended up having nothing to do with being the reason for the service disruption, but I am still wondering how track signaling is handled when there is a power outage. Does the affected line revert to train order operations? Can modern day railroad switches still be moved by hand? I apologize for my ignorance and all of the questions. I am interested in learning more about the technical aspects of railroad operations.

 

[KmH]

A good resource:

http://fragis.fra.dot.gov/GISFRASafety/

 

[HP_Lovecraft]

I've been on the Downeaster during bad storms before.

During a power outage, the procedure is they have to run slow enough to get a visual that the gates are working. And if they are not, the conductor has to get out to stop traffic.

The Downeaster was originally cancelled because of downed trees. There is large stretches where the right of way is already very narrow. The tracks are cleared now, but with such large stretches without power, the 2 hour trip would probobly take 6-7 hours to get out and visually check all 100 crossings!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

The tracks are cleared now, but with such large stretches without power, the 2 hour trip would probobly take 6-7 hours to get out and visually check all 100 crossings!

That sounds like a job for the Foam Army!