PPC Status on Coast Starlight

[AmtrakBlue]

More litigious and self entitled.

So true

 

[Devil's Advocate]

More litigious and self entitled.

So true.

Three of the reasons the US appears more litigious compared to other developed democracies is that (1) we have weaker commercial regulations, (2) fewer consumer protections, and (3) lower education levels. As a result we often assume we posses protections that don't actually exist and only after being ignored by businesses/employers, investigators/regulators, and our executive/legislative branches do we discover that going to court is the one and only practical opportunity to remedy the situation. This is good news for large corporations that can defend or pay off virtually any legal challenge, but it's bad news for consumers and smaller businesses that are at constant risk of being financially destroyed by fighting a much larger adversary in court. As if that wasn't bad enough consumers are now being forced into binding arbitration with little or no opportunity to influence corporate behavior regardless of the actions of the defendant or the severity of harm suffered by the plaintiff. Witness the recent Equifax scandal and the sudden rush to enact emergency legislation to help further protect powerful corporations from much weaker consumers who were harmed as a result of executive ignorance and corporate negligence.

 

[willem]

Witness the recent credit reporting scandal and the emergency legislation enacted to help protect corporations like Equifax from consumers who were harmed as a result of their ignorance and negligence.

I'm confused, probably because pronouns are a bane of clear communication. (To bewilder me and further confuse the issue, at least one dictionary says "their" is a determiner rather than a pronoun, as I thought I was taught.) "Their" ignorance and negligence suggests the consumers were ignorant and negligent. "Its" ignorance and negligence would appear to refer to Equifax.

I'll assume you refer to ignorance and negligence on the part of Equifax and agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Excellent point and well taken. I try to be clear in my posts but sometimes I struggle with precisely articulating my position. Based on your feedback I have attempted to clean up and clarify my intended meaning.

 

[neroden]

There is a slight liability of running the PPCs instead of an upgraded SSL. Have watched persons stumble when exiting the PPC to adjacent cars dues to the lower PPC floor height difference. As well going the other way for very tall persons have seen a few bumped heads on the PPC. Another -- all super liners have a grab bar on each side of the passageway to next cars. Last time there only a grab bar on one side of the passage don.t remember which side ?

The rest of the world does not seem to have problems with gaps, difference in height, high low whatever. Are we just more clumsy and uncoordinated?

In the rest of the world, if you're injured due to tripping over the gap or whatever, the *free public health care system* will cover your medical costs.

Here, you'll be billed hundreds or thousands of dollars by overpriced, price-gouging hospitals even if it's a minor injury, and you have to sue just to recover your medical costs. Or your insurance company will sue.

Frankly, there are an awful lot of problems in the US which are caused by the lack of a simple single-payer health care system.

 

[willem]

I try to be clear in my posts but sometimes I struggle with precisely articulating my position.

That's a normally thankless task, and I thank you.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

There is a slight liability of running the PPCs instead of an upgraded SSL. Have watched persons stumble when exiting the PPC to adjacent cars dues to the lower PPC floor height difference. As well going the other way for very tall persons have seen a few bumped heads on the PPC. Another -- all super liners have a grab bar on each side of the passageway to next cars. Last time there only a grab bar on one side of the passage don.t remember which side ?

The rest of the world does not seem to have problems with gaps, difference in height, high low whatever. Are we just more clumsy and uncoordinated?

In the rest of the world, if you're injured due to tripping over the gap or whatever, the *free public health care system* will cover your medical costs. Here, you'll be billed hundreds or thousands of dollars by overpriced, price-gouging hospitals even if it's a minor injury, and you have to sue just to recover your medical costs. Or your insurance company will sue. Frankly, there are an awful lot of problems in the US which are caused by the lack of a simple single-payer health care system.

Another excellent point. I always sigh when I read travel insurance warnings about Americans needing to protect themselves against the high cost of healthcare in other countries. The US has the most expensive healthcare market in the entire world. The only reason it might cost an American more money to receive healthcare in another country is because US health insurance is allowed to restrict payment outside of your home network. You can explain this and most Americans will listen and understand it. Right up until the point where fixing it would interfere with their compensation levels or tribal affiliations.

 

[PVD]

I knew we were in trouble the day I bought a bag of peanuts and printed on the back it said "this product was packaged in a facility that processes peanuts and other tree nuts"

Ya think...........

 

[jis]

All of the rest of the world actually does not have what one would consider a trustworthy "free public healthcare" systems. Irrespective of that, even where there is no "free public healthcare" system, the costs are much lower than the US. In some places where there at least is a notional "free public healthcare" system, one would be better off staying clear of that and actually going to a non-free facility for the sake of ones own health. The world is a highly variable place as far as that goes.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

All of the rest of the world actually does not have what one would consider a trustworthy "free public healthcare" systems. Irrespective of that, even where there is no "free public healthcare" system, the costs are much lower than the US. In some places where there at least is a notional "free public healthcare" system, one would be better off staying clear of that and actually going to a non-free facility for the sake of ones own health. The world is a highly variable place as far as that goes.

I agree that it's not free, and it's generally not that fast for non-emergency care, but among industrialized democracies it's almost always better than this "pay the world's most expensive rate up front or sit down and wait until you're almost dead" nonsense we have going over here. You can make case for poor and overpopulated countries to have worse coverage, and you'd be entirely correct, but I'm not sure what point that would prove. To me the richest countries should fighting for supremacy near the top of the citizen services leader board rather than being content to sit at the bottom of their financial bracket. Besides, at the current rate of medical bill increases in a few years most Americans are unlikely to have any meaningful health care coverage at all. Yeah, we'll all have health care "plans," they just won't do much until you're already bankrupt.

 

[west point]

What is a problem in this state is that the persons who have some health care carriers have to pay such a high visit fee. What happens is that the persons go to the ER for problems that a doctor could have taken care. But their plan pays all for the ER visit. Now isn't the whole system upside down ?

 

[jis]

I wish I had a plan in which ER is covered 100%. Neither Urgent Care, nor ER is covered 100%. ER actually has considerably higher co-pay than Urgent Care or a visit to the Doctor's office, lie say about 4 to 10 times more.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

My wife had a plan like that, actually, and we did go to the ER because it was the only way to get stuff like MRIs covered without a long and winding approval process.

Me? I try to avoid iatrogenic diseases alltogether.

Doctors are ultimately expected to have 100% failure rate, and so we hold them accountable to nothing. No thanks.

 

[jis]

I think in many cases it is quite true that it is much easier to get many diagnostic tests done in ER or Urgent Care, rather than in a Docotr's visit. The syetm in this country is entireoy f**ked up.

 

[PRR 60]

Perhaps discussion could return to the status of the Pacific Parlour Car? Additional posts not related to the PCC will be split to a new topic in the lounge, with prior related posts also moved.

 

[CraigDK]

Perhaps discussion could return to the status of the Pacific Parlour Car? Additional posts not related to the PCC will be split to a new topic in the lounge, with prior related posts also moved.

That would be great.

 

[neroden]

Anyway, my *point* was, if someone trips over the gap or step between train cars in Britain or Germany and is injured, the state treats them at the hospital and in the end they are billed nothing.

*Here*, they get a bloated bill ten or a hundred times larger than it should be and they may have to sue to avoid bankruptcy.

So don't blame Americans for suing over such things...

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Anyway, my *point* was, if someone trips over the gap or step between train cars in Britain or Germany and is injured, the state treats them at the hospital and in the end they are billed nothing.

*Here*, they get a bloated bill ten or a hundred times larger than it should be and they may have to sue to avoid bankruptcy.

So don't blame Americans for suing over such things...

The only relevance I see here to the PPC is the possibility of tripping on the "downslope" step leading into the car.

 

[neroden]

Anyway, my *point* was, if someone trips over the gap or step between train cars in Britain or Germany and is injured, the state treats them at the hospital and in the end they are billed nothing.

*Here*, they get a bloated bill ten or a hundred times larger than it should be and they may have to sue to avoid bankruptcy.

So don't blame Americans for suing over such things...

The only relevance I see here to the PPC is the possibility of tripping on the "downslope" step leading into the car.

Right, which is what started the conversation. I think we've exhausted the topic now?

 

[Rail Freak]

Perhaps discussion could return to the status of the Pacific Parlour Car? Additional posts not related to the PCC will be split to a new topic in the lounge, with prior related posts also moved.

Thank you!!!

 

[ChuckL]

I’m leaving on my westward journey from Michigan tomorrow morning. As readers of this thread know from when I started it, travel on the Coast Starlight from LAX-PDX is part of the adventure on 11/8-9. I’ll update this thread with my findings about the Pacific Parlour Car I’ll also write a separate trip report on my circular journey encompassing DER-CHI-LAX-SAN-LAX-PDX-CHI-DER. Well, back to packing and sleep for an early morning departure.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[ChuckL]

Well, my Coast Starlight #14 has the original PPC on it. According to my SCA, tho Car, whose name I will find out, was built around 1940. Will go see it and it’s original paneling. Wine tasting is at 3:30 pm by reservation. More later on the signature cocktails [emoji16]

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[cpotisch]

Hi-Levels were built between '52 and '64. None were built in the '40s

 

[Bob Dylan]

Hi-Levels were built between '52 and '64. None were built in the '40s

Also they were built by Budd for use by the A,T & SF on the All Coach El Capitan and there were Lounges and Coaches.
When the El Cap and theall Pullman Super Chief were combined, they ran on this consist till Amtrak took over from Santa Fe.

Amtrak had them remodeled in the 90s for exclusive use on the Coast Starlight as Pacific Parlor Cars.One of their better ideas!

 

[ChuckL]

Hi-Levels were built between '52 and '64. None were built in the '40s

I thought the 40’s sounded too early, but I was just going on what my SCA told me.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum