Pricing anomalies

[Exvalley]

I just booked a trip to Washington, DC for a business trip in April (early, I know). I wanted to travel from White River Junction, Vermont to Washington. The Vermonter gets into Washington too late, so I started looking at other departures. That's when I noticed two things that seemed odd.

1) Business class from White River Junction to WAS is $163. Coach is $82. It remains this fare all the way through Holyoke, MA. Once the train hits Springfield the fare changes to $96 for business class and $57 for coach. It seems odd to me that fares are significantly lower the closer you get to more populated areas with a more robust economy. On the other hand, there are several departures per day from Springfield south, whereas there is just one departure per day north of Springfield. So it could be that supply and demand are at work here.

2) I decided to book a ticket from Windsor Locks (one station below Springfield - with free overnight parking) using points. A coach ticket cost 3,834 points. A business class ticket cost 3,408 points. Can anyone explain this? It's pretty obvious which option I went with.

 

[Ryan]

Revenue management at work.

1). If someone books a seat on the Vermonter from Springfield south, that takes away the ability for someone in your neck of the woods to be able to travel. The higher price steers them towards one of the other departures you note, leaving the space free for 9 months from now you to still be able to book your trip from White River Junction.

2). This is where supply and demand comes in - you see it sometimes with bedrooms being cheaper than roomettes, too. If a bunch of roomettes are sold, the price will go up. If no bedrooms are sold, a lower price will help encourage folks to make use of them.

 

[Exvalley]

1). If someone books a seat on the Vermonter from Springfield south, that takes away the ability for someone in your neck of the woods to be able to travel. The higher price steers them towards one of the other departures you note, leaving the space free for 9 months from now you to still be able to book your trip from White River Junction.

You've lost me.

The fares on the Vermonter are the same as on other NER trains from Springfield - which is to say that, on the Vermonter, the fares drastically reduce from Springfield south. So the fare structure right now is encouraging people to book seats from Springfield south on the Vermonter - not discouraging it.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Hmm, seems to me the closer you are to your destination when you board, the less expensive the cost.
Also remember the Vermonter is a state supported train, so the state has some say in the pricing of tickets.

 

[Exvalley]

Hmm, seems to me the closer you are to your destination when you board, the less expensive the cost.

I definitely understand that - but it's a pretty crude system that keeps the price at $163 for boardings all the way from St. Albans, VT to Holyoke, MA and then drops the price to $82 at Springfield, MA.

Also remember the Vermonter is a state supported train, so the state has some say in the pricing of tickets.

I thought about that too. But the price is the same at all but one of the stations in Massachusetts. Does Vermont have any influence on the fares in Massachusetts? If not, this seems to be an Amtrak issue rather than a Vermont issue.

 

[Ryan]

You've lost me.

The fares on the Vermonter are the same as on other NER trains from Springfield - which is to say that, on the Vermonter, the fares drastically reduce from Springfield south. So the fare structure right now is encouraging people to book seats from Springfield south on the Vermonter - not discouraging it.

I got myself lost there and somehow reversed the prices.

In that case, yes. Shorter trips are cheaper. As far as the severity of the drop, you're again basing a conclusion on a single train on a single day. Without access to the data that the revenue management folks use to make their decisions, you can't really make any judgements on the system.

 

[dlagrua]

Prices and value speak for themselves and everyone defines it differently. Whether it be air, auto or rail travel you can weigh the value of the trip and choose to suit your needs. Our criteria includes comfort, food quality, and cost each being part of the overall value of the trip. This year first class air travel better defined value for us, but depending on what Amtrak does in its marketing approach we would gladly switch back at any time.

 

[jebr]

I thought about that too. But the price is the same at all but one of the stations in Massachusetts. Does Vermont have any influence on the fares in Massachusetts? If not, this seems to be an Amtrak issue rather than a Vermont issue.

They might on the Vermonter - Springfield seems like the place where it could transition from "funded by the state of Vermont" to being considered part of the NEC network (or at least considered similarly priced to those, since there's also fairly frequent Hartford Line services at/south of Springfield.) Vermont might also want to preserve space for people in Vermont, so they're intentionally pricing their portion more expensive for shorter trips to get people to move to other trains north of Springfield (there's also the Valley Flyer service at the MA stations, for example.)

As for the points abnormality, my guess is that it's a quirk of Amtrak's discounting system. Coach has distinct fare levels, and usually the cheapest fares get put into the "Saver" fare class, which isn't eligible for points redemption. Business class doesn't have that ability, so it's possible for business class to have a lower "points redemption eligible" fare than coach, which is why you see that oddity.

 

[Exvalley]

Prices and value speak for themselves and everyone defines it differently. Whether it be air, auto or rail travel you can weigh the value of the trip and choose to suit your needs.

You may be onto something here. Once the train gets to Springfield, MA, it is competing much harder with air travel to Washington, DC. A round-trip economy flight on my dates to Washington, DC from Burlington, VT is $342. It is $232 from Hartford. And once you get south of Springfield, the odds of living fairly close to an airport go way up.

 

[bratkinson]

Living in south suburban Springfield MA, I usually board NEC trains at Windsor Locks to save the $10/day parking charges downtown.

Although I don't usually compare prices to/from SPG and WNL, I think a trip between the two (15 mi per TT) used to be $3-4. However, since the startup of CTRAIL between SPG and NHV, Amtrak had to match the $10 CTRAIL price between any two cities between the endpoints. And Business class on #141, my usual train, is an extra $15.

However...the Vermonter is NOT part of the CTRAIL 'package price' specifically to deter 'commuters' between SPG & NHV that would limit the seats available to Vermonters. It skips 4 stops in Connecticut to further that deterrence as well as to speed up travel time a bit.

Also, unlike TR #141 with it's 6 coaches, full cafe, and full BC car, the Vermonter is only 4 coaches and a cafe/BC car. So space is at a premium. So they charge accordingly. Vermont DOES pay $$$ to run the train. So, THEY get to call the shots, possibly on the costs from Vermont cities, perhaps to reduce the amount the state pays Amtrak.

 

[west point]

What is the fare from Vermont to Springfield ?. a split booking might be cheaper ?

 

[Exvalley]

What is the fare from Vermont to Springfield ?. a split booking might be cheaper ?

$55 for business class. So it's $12 cheaper to book a split ticket.

However, in my situation it's not an option because the southbound Vermonter does not get me into Washington, DC early enough. I really wish that it did, since I much prefer the Vermonter's business class.

On the other hand, even though it involves more driving, there is a benefit to starting my trip in Windsor Locks rather than White River Junction. When I return home, the northbound Vermonter gets into Windsor Locks at 2:22 PM. Driving home from there gets me to my house by about 5:15 PM.

The Vermonter does not arrive at White River Junction until 6:15 PM, which would not get me home until 7:15 PM.

So I am willing to do two more hours of driving to get home two hours earlier. This is especially true since it is a work provided vehicle and gas card.