Rail service and travel by rail in the Indian subcontinent

[jis]

It is new construction to a large extent on elevated structure along road/highway alignments. I am not sure if it use any of the RoW of the classic rail route between Ghaziabad and Meerut at all.

As a matter of fact most of the new Metros in India are built on elevated structures with only a relatively small proportion in the center city usually in bored tunnels.

 

[jis]

Two more Vande Bharat Expresses were inaugurated last week (week of 2/13/23)

 

[Bob Dylan]

Two more Vande Bharat Expresses were inaugurated last week (week of 2/13/23)

Jis: I still say Amtrak should hire some Execs from Indian Railways to run their Trains!

 

[jis]

Jis: I still say Amtrak should hire some Execs from Indian Railways to run their Trains!

Or even a few from Israel Railways would do.

 

[cirdan]

Some questions:

A relative of mine is likely to be put on a job placement in India starting this Summer and lasting up to three years. Delhi area. Moving with wife and two kids.

This would be a great opportunity to not only see him, but also go my own way and explore some of Indian Railways, ideally on multi-day trips.

Any advice on particular lines or features of interest (in terms of scenery, equipment, other remarkable features etc). Ideally I would like to get a taste of both the old and the new. Also hopping off the train to see places of cultural / historical interest if they can be easily combined. Though I'm not much of a fan of the well-organized super tourist traps and would prefer more second tier attractions that still have a lot of local ambience.

How best to book tickets? Online? At stations? How far in advance?

Any dos and dont's?

I gather from googling that India doesn't really have the concept of sleeper trains as in cars with private rooms with doors you can lock as on Amtrak, but what they call sleeper trains are more like communal dorms. Is this correct? Do they have showers on such trains?

What is photography like in India. You occasionally hear scare stories of photography being absolutely forbidden in many locations, and of security staff and police acting allergically to anybody who even looks as if they might be planning to take pictures. Is this still the case? Any specific etiquette I should be aware of?

 

[jis]

Some questions:

I would preface my comments on this subject with the note that India is a vast country with a vast rail,network that is ever growing in size and sophistication. One can spend a lifetime visiting various corners of it as some of my railfan friends in the IRFCA do.

Any advice on particular lines or features of interest (in terms of scenery, equipment, other remarkable features etc). Ideally I would like to get a taste of both the old and the new. Also hopping off the train to see places of cultural / historical interest if they can be easily combined. Though I'm not much of a fan of the well-organized super tourist traps and would prefer more second tier attractions that still have a lot of local ambience.

In New Delhi visit the National Railway Museum in Chanakyapuri to get your fill of remarkably well preserved historic artifacts and rolling stock, including a Class N Garratt and a bunch of DC electric locos from the 30s and 40s used around Bombay. There is also a well preserved Baldwin WP bullet nosed passenger steam loco too.

Inquire at the NRM whether it is possible visit the Steam Loco preservation shed in Rewari a relatively short train ride from Delhi, and if available visit it.

The scenic day trips from Delhi are mostly to the Himalayan foothills - Dehra Dun and Kathgodam (for Naini Tal) have Shatabdi Expresses. Overnight trip to Katra on the part of the Kashmir Rail link that is in service from the plains would be worth it. The other end of it in Kashmir Valley can be ridden between Banihal and Qazigund, through the Pir Panjal Tunnel under the Pir Panjal Range (foothills of the Great Himalayas) can be done by flying from Delhi to Srinagar and spending a day or two there. Do this only if you have a stomach for the possibility of working around occasional terrorist activities, though it appears to be on the wane now.

On the trip to Katra, you could stop off at Pathankot for a few days and take in the narrow gauge Kangra Valley Railroad to Joginder Nagar and back.

Also on the way back stop at Ambala Cantt. and spend a couple of days going upto Kalka and then taking the Kalka - Shimla narrow gauge line up into the Himalayan foothills to what used to be Summer Capital of the British Raj.

A few of the not to be missed scenic lines on the plains are:

1. Kokan Railway -there are through trains from Delhi (Hazrat Nizamuddin) to Tiruvanthipuram, including a Rajdhani Express to explore this line along the west coast of India where the Western Ghats meet the Arabian Sea. Make a stop at Mumbai and take in the ride upto Pune and thence to Madgaon (Goa) and then join the train to Tiruvanthipuram there in one directio to experience the 1 in 37 Broad Gauge climb climb from Karjat to Pune and then the sceneray of the Sahyadri range of the Western Ghats. Stop off at Goa and enjoy the beaches and the hedonism

2. From Tiruvanthipuram go to Chennai across the peninsula, and then catch an Express (perhaps Coromandal Express) to Kolkata (Howrah) to experience theEast (Coromandal) Coast

3. From Kolkata take the daytime Shatabdi Express to New Jalpaiguri across the might Ganga at Farakka Barrage.

4. Overnight at New Jalpaiguri and then catch the early morning Narrow Gauge Train to Darjeeling on the UNESCO World Heritage listed Darjeeling Himalayan Railway. If you are lucky you will get a spectacular view of on of the top five highest peaks of the world (Kanchenjunga). If you are even lickier you could get a view of distant Mt. Everest. Tiger Hill is the place to visit early in the morning for the best views.

5. From New Jalpaiguri catch a train to Agartala and go at least as far as Badarpur in order to take in the spectacular Barak Valley segment between Lumding and Badarpur. Enroute, you will cross the might Bramhaputra near Guwahati.

6. Now there is a direct Rajdhani from Agartala to New Delhi which you can take to hightail it back to Delhi from this eastern extremity of India. There are many areas in and around Assam state and the surrounding border areas where you need a separate Inner Line Permit, but that should not be needed if you stay on the main railroad all the way to Agartala, or on the norther branch out of Lumding to Tinsukia on the Bramhaputra.

7. From Kolkata you could take a side trip to Dhaka in Bangladesh by the international non-stop Maitrye Express. Need less to say you will need a Bangladesh visa endorse for land border crossing to make this trip, and a multiple entry Indian Visa.

8. While in South India a trip to Mettupalayam from Chennai to take the Meter Gauge Nilgiri Line to Ootacamund is highly recommended.

That is what I would do if I had a couple months to gallivant around on trains With that much riding to do, I'd spurge for a AC 1st Indrail Pass.

How best to book tickets? Online? At stations? How far in advance?

You can book everything on line at the IRCTC website. It can be a bit of a pain to get yourself set up with an account. In the past they had difficulty sending an SMS to a number outside India in order to provide an OTP to establish verify your contact point. I think that is fixed now, so it should be easy.

Any dos and dont's?

Be careful with your baggage. They sometimes have a tendency to go walkabout while you were not looking, though less so from AC 1st Class, but all trains do not have that accommodation. Most common is AC or non-AC 3-Tier Sleeper or Chair Car (day trains). Even though reserved, there is a tendency for extraneous additional people to get on for short rides in those.

I gather from googling that India doesn't really have the concept of sleeper trains as in cars with private rooms with doors you can lock as on Amtrak, but what they call sleeper trains are more like communal dorms. Is this correct? Do they have showers on such trains?

AC or non-AC 3-Tier is communal dorm. AC 2-Tier is like Sections with fully curtain enclosed berths at night. AC First Class is shared compartments with lockable doors.

What is photography like in India. You occasionally hear scare stories of photography being absolutely forbidden in many locations, and of security staff and police acting allergically to anybody who even looks as if they might be planning to take pictures. Is this still the case? Any specific etiquette I should be aware of?

Things regarding photography are much more relaxed these days, is what I am told by my friends who do a lot of railroad photography in India.

 

[cirdan]

Thanks for all that info.
I see I'm going to have to get out a map and trace all those journeys.

 

[jis]

Just caught up on some additional info about the Vande Bharat. The delivery rate is now upto one set per week, and they are being deployed on new routes every so often.

The ones being procured currently are VB2 sets which are 16 car sets with 8 power cars and 8 trailers. Soon an 8 car version is coming out, the mini VB2 which will be deployed on more rural routes with lesser traffic potential. They will have just one Executive Class instead of two in the full 16 car sets, and of course 4 power cars instead of 8.

My birthplace Kolkata just got two more - Howrah to Ranchi, the capital of the state of Jharkhand, and Howrah to Puri, a popular seaside resort and the home of the famous Jagannath Temple, and the source of the English word Juggernaut. This train also serves the capital of Odissa State at Bhubaneshwar.

The 16 car VB2s are capable of accelerating from 0 to 60mph in about 50 sec. That performance itself is able to knock off 30-60 mins off an 8 hour scheduled compared to similar length locomotive hauled Shatabdi Express with similar stops. Since they all operate in mixed traffic on non-dedicated routes there is a lot of slowing down and speeding up involved even when there is no station stop as they make their way through congested routes. That is where the performance comes into play.

Contracts have been let out for constructing the first batch of 100 VB3 16 car Sleeper trains which will be used to replace Rajdhani Expresses as a starter to be followed by replacing other loco hauled expresses, and speeding them up in the process. These will be capable of 200kph (125mph) as and when track quality permits. They are due to come on line in 2025 or so.

Tenders have been called for the so called VB4 active tilting train sets that come after the VB3s. These are due 2026 or later.

 

[Rambling Robert]

Just caught up on some additional info about the Vande Bharat. The delivery rate is now upto one set per week, and they are being deployed on new routes every so often.

The ones being procured currently are VB2 sets which are 16 car sets with 8 power cars and 8 trailers. Soon an 8 car version is coming out, the mini VB2 which will be deployed on more rural routes with lesser traffic potential. They will have just one Executive Class instead of two in the full 16 car sets, and of course 4 power cars instead of 8.

My birthplace Kolkata just got two more - Howrah to Ranchi, the capital of the state of Jharkhand, and Howrah to Puri, a popular seaside resort and the home of the famous Jagannath Temple, and the source of the English word Juggernaut. This train also serves the capital of Odissa State at Bhubaneshwar.

The 16 car VB2s are capable of accelerating from 0 to 60mph in about 50 sec. That performance itself is able to knock off 30-60 mins off an 8 hour scheduled compared to similar length locomotive hauled Shatabdi Express with similar stops. Since they all operate in mixed traffic on non-dedicated routes there is a lot of slowing down and speeding up involved even when there is no station stop as they make their way through congested routes. That is where the performance comes into play.

Contracts have been let out for constructing the first batch of 100 VB3 16 car Sleeper trains which will be used to replace Rajdhani Expresses as a starter to be followed by replacing other loco hauled expresses, and speeding them up in the process. These will be capable of 200kph (125mph) as and when track quality permits. They are due to come on line in 2025 or so.

Tenders have been called for the so called VB4 active tilting train sets that come after the VB3s. These are due 2026 or later.

India’s effort of providing electrified rail for such a significant growth. I think shows more of an effort for energy self sufficiency. India does have a potential continuing to develop solar which is fully sustainable.

It’s amazing how many rail lines in India are being launched every month or so. Apparently India sticks to its plan and - well - has a plan to begin with! I was a technician recording a presentation by Harvard students about the top eight countries at an energy conference a few years ago one of the countries was India, and I was very impressed. I don’t recall the huge electrified rail program, but I do remember how India is aggressive towards solar and nuclea. But as far as coal it’s acceptable, but heavily surcharge.

I think in the US there’s sort of a distrust in policy makers in general. For example, would people trust that a 30% surcharge on gasoline purchases even if they go to healthcare and education?

I’ll bet they’ll be something on YouTube about all of India’s success with the new electrified rails and how it’s benefiting the people. I’m beginning to plan my trip to Bangladesh, and possibly India - based on earlier information in this thread. The trip is planned for 2024 and might include traveling through the Arctic Circle by train but mostly I want to go to Feni and Cox’s Bazar in Bangladesh and maybe India

I’m recovering from a car accident and will soon be as good as new.

 

[BlackDiamond]

I think in the US there’s sort of a distrust in policy makers in general. For example, would people trust that a 30% surcharge on gasoline purchases even if they go to healthcare and education?

A few years ago there was a referendum in Massachusetts to increase the fuel tax to pay for roads and even that was defeated. Then people complain about potholes

 

[BlackDiamond]

Interesting video by Doc7Austin (who is mostly known for airline videos but has done some great train videos as well such as a multi part series traveling from Vladivostok to Moscow) on catering on an Indian LD train - the Rajdhani Express. I expect he will later issue a video on the actual trip.

Dining Car & Catering on Indian Railways Sleeper Trains (Rajdhani Express AC First Class)

 

[jis]

Interesting video by Doc7Austin (who is mostly known for airline videos but has done some great train videos as well such as a multi part series traveling from Vladivostok to Moscow) on catering on an Indian LD train - the Rajdhani Express. I expect he will later issue a video on the actual trip.

Dining Car & Catering on Indian Railways Sleeper Trains (Rajdhani Express AC First Class)

I have no idea why "Dining Car" is even mentioned. The only train that has a Dining Car in India AFAIK is the Deccan Queen. No Rajdhani has a Dining Car, usually called Restaurant Car in India. The last time there were Dining Cars was back in the '60s, and ironically it was the introduction of the first Rajdhani Express that started the withdrawal of Dining Car service and replacing it with Pantry Cars, which evolved to be called Hot Buffet Cars, except that they seldom have any operational Buffet Service, though they are sort of equipped to provide it.

On Rajdhanis food is cooked on board only for AC First Class, which is just all of one car on most Rajdhanis and two cars on the Kolkata Rajdhani. The other 14 cars are AC 2 and 3 Tier Sleepers. They primarily get their food airline style, cooked and packaged in shore kitchens, loaded at en route supply stations and then served at meal time at each passenger's seat. Bulk of the shore prepared meals are loaded and stored on individual trays in tray racks and stored in warmer cabinets in a small pantry area in each car, until served.

As he mentioned, passengers can opt to use the IRCTC mobile phone App to order food from a large number of reputable vendors and their food delivered at a station they designate. Vendors available of course depends on the delivery station chosen. For example, you can even order a Domino's Pizza at some delivery stations. You can see the entire list of delivery stations and what is available at each in the App and then place the order. The order is associated with your PNR, so you have to be a legitimate passenger on that train to be able to place an order. It actually works remarkably well I think.

Incidentally, this is just a straightforward adaptation of the food service that has existed on Indian Railways for a century and a half where in food service person takes orders for meals several hours before meal time and then telegraphs the order forward to the delivery station, where the meals are prepared in the kitchen and ready for delivery when the train arrives. It has just been generalized to beyond just the railway catering service kitchens as the meal provider.

A final footnote: AC 1 is a rather uncommon offering in India, with only a few prestigious trains carrying them, and even fewer with cooked on board food service, which are mainly confined to Rajdhani Expresses. The most common and most widely used Sleeng Car service is the non-AC Sleeper, followed by the AC 3-Tier Sleeper, and much less used but still present in most train with AC 3-Tier Sleepers is the AC-2Tier Sleeper. The AC accommodation is mostly for the burgeoning middle class folks. Most of the country commoners do not travel by AC accommodation yet, let alone Rajdhanis and Shatabdis and premium services of that ilk. But the India's middle class is now approaching the total population of the US in size, so that is there.

 

[jis]

I came across this somewhat better done video of a the evening parade of higher speed service heading out of Delhi (New Delhi Terminus and Anand Vihar Terminus), towards the East, including (state that the city is capital of in parentheses after each) Lucknow (Uttar Pradesh), Kolkata (West Bengal), Patna (Bihar), Ranchi (Jharkhand), Bhubaneshwar (Odisha), Dibrugarh Town via Guwahati (Assam) and Naharlagun (Arunachal Pradesh -erstwhile North East Frontier Agency), etc. The video is well annotated.

Additional things of interest, it shows two freight trains, one pulled by an ABB derivative WAG-9 Class (Green) 6,000HP - 9,000HP depending on sub-class, The other one is a Coal train pulled by an Alstom articulated Bo-Bo-Bo-Bo dual unit WAG-12 (Blue) 12,000HP.

 

[cirdan]

As he mentioned, passengers can opt to use the IRCTC mobile phone App to order food from a large number of reputable vendors and their food delivered at a station they designate. Vendors available of course depends on the delivery station chosen. For example, you can even order a Domino's Pizza at some delivery stations. You can see the entire list of delivery stations and what is available at each in the App and then place the order. The order is associated with your PNR, so you have to be a legitimate passenger on that train to be able to place an order. It actually works remarkably well I think.

How do they assure the right food gets to the person who ordered it? Do they deliver it to your designated seat or do you have to show an ID? How reliable is the system and how often can or does something go wrong?

One often hears of reports of Delhi-Belly from tourists, caused probably by, ahem, insufficient food hygiene. Are the providers of train food reliable in this sense? Or would it be safer to take a packed lunch?

 

[jis]

How do they assure the right food gets to the person who ordered it? Do they deliver it to your designated seat or do you have to show an ID? How reliable is the system and how often can or does something go wrong?

They deliver to the designated seat. They generally check against the receiver possessing the reservation slip for the accommodation, electronic or paper which has the PNR that the order is associated with. As I mentioned this is just computerization of a practice that has existed for over a century. In that sense it is nothing new.

One often hears of reports of Delhi-Belly from tourists, caused probably by, ahem, insufficient food hygiene. Are the providers of train food reliable in this sense? Or would it be safer to take a packed lunch?

I just roughly follow the rules mentioned by the videographer of that video, though sometimes playing fast and loose. but then again I spent my immune system development years in that environment, so mine is probably better attuned to dealing with that stuff than someone who grew up elsewhere. It is unusual for there to be any problems, but they can happen. Foreigners should take appropriate precautions and not play occasional fast and loose like I do. Typically one would not have problems with food delivered by an outfit like Domino's or McDonalds. The Indian food vendors selected by IRCTC for the program are typically as good as or better than IRCTC who one depends on for on board food service anyway. It is quite unrealistic to take packed lunch for a three day journey, so one has to have some strategy for getting reliable food over many days, or alternatively, fly.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

This sounds like a mash-up of airline service with the Indian lunch delivery system (name is escaping me right now).

 

[jis]

This sounds like a mash-up of airline service with the Indian lunch delivery system (name is escaping me right now).

No. This has nothing to do with airlines or Dabbawalas. It is run under the auspices of IRCTC, a subsidiary of Indian Railways.

 

[west point]

Do any trains in India have a useable railfan window?

 

[jis]

Do any trains in India have a useable railfan window?

Only in the few trains that carry what is called a Vista Dome Car in India, which is often the last car of the train and it has a window at its end. Those can be found only on occasional tourism focused trains on scenic routes. Normal trains in India don't have such cars and normal Indian cars do not have end windows. High quality trains usually have an LBGG (Luggage, Brake, Guard, Generator) Car at each end of the consist with the passenger accessible areas in the main train bracketed at each end by those service cars, so no railfan window.

But then, what is called "door-plating", which consists of opening a door and then leaning out to enjoy the view is almost universally allowed, except in trains traveling faster than 130kph, and in trains with centrally controlled doors like the Vande Bharat Expresses. Incidentally only a few designated trains are fully air conditioned. All other trains have some amount of non-AC cars, which of course have open windows.

 

[jis]

Came across this video (in Hindi) about Vande Bharat Express which had a sequence with high catenary equipped Vande Bharat Express. Here is a screenshot. It is from a Smart City Guide Video:



This consist is for use on the soon to be introduced New Delhi - Jaipur- Ajmer service which shares part of its trackage with the double stack capable Western DFC (between Delhi Cantonment and Rewari, and hence the high reach pantograph.

If anyone even tells you that a route cannot be elctrified because of the height of freight trains show them this screen shot and remind them that this route accommodates 22' tall freight (container) cars and the catenary is a little under 25' above top or rail.

 

[jis]

We mostly discuss premium trains here which actually are nowhere near the majority of services on IR. IR operates a large number of rural trains which connect Podunk1 to Podunk2 and everything in between. Such trains typicall are all unreserved non-AC Second Class sitting accommodation. Typically they are not crowded and provide a vital service for people living in the hinterland.

I thought I'd post an example of such from a large number posted on Youtube. This one is a rural service from Siliguri Jn, which in the past was the primary Meter Gauge railhead for connecting to the Narrow Gauge Darjeeling Himalayan Railway. Now of course all Meter Gauge is gone and the main Broad Gauge station in the area is New Jalpaiguri, with Siliguri retained as a secondary station on a secondary line.

The other end of this service is a place called Balurghat deep in rural Bengal right across the Bangladesh Border. The border is at Hilli which is also a station (now in Bangladesh) on what used to be the main trunk line from Kolkata to Siliguri before partition.

This train travels on what is now the trunk line, fully electrified from Kolkata to New Jalpaiguri, most of the way. From Siliguri to Alubari Road it travels on the then yet to be electrified secondary line, and then it branches off from Eklakhi Jn. to the east, reversing direction at Eklakhi, to Balurghat, on an yet to be elctrified route. There is a plan to extend this route beyond Balurghat to join the North - South main line in Bangladesh at Hilli with a new border rail border crossing at Hilli..

It is powered by a WDM3 Class Alco Century derivative manufactured many years ago in India. The cars of the train are all Second Class self-generating cars.

It travels mostly through beautifully Green Bengal countryside crossing many rivers and streams, and stopping at many little stations, which would be passed by at speed by trains like the Shatabdi and Vande Bharat which also ply the electrified main line.

It is a long video, but have a go at it if you wish to see how most of the rural folks who have access to train service travel in India....

 

[BlackDiamond]

doc7austin has another India rail video out. Looks like he is doing a 7 part series of trips. The first is from Ahmedabad to Jodhpur in AC first class sleeper. Although he is an experienced rail traveler this is his first time in India so he had a bit of a learning curve such as figuring out where the compartment was that he was ticketed for. The rail infrastructure looked pretty impressive.



Answering some of his questions:

The WDP4s look like EMD and sound like EMD because they are EMD derivative.

The WDG4G is GE derivative, initial batch manufactured in the US all from Roza shed in UP.

Not shown here but another new class is the WAG12, 12,000HP twin Bo-Bo-Bo-Bo, from Alstom, all homed at Saharanpur shed in UP These are the Blue giants. One appears in an earlier video on express train parade I posted upthread.

The train is running with a diesel because of general shortage of electric locomotives as electrification is expanded at tearing speed. Jodhpur has been electrified very recently, and actually the Jodhpur end of it or bits on the way may not have been energized yet too.

HA1 - H = AC First, A = AC 2 Tier, and 1 is just the ordinal number in the consist of this type of car.

The codes roughly speaking:

H - AC First
A - AC 2 Tier
B - AC 3 Tier
C - AC Chair Car
D - Non-AC Chair Car
E - AC Executive Chair Car
G - Non-AC General unreserved also marked as GEN with no ordinal number in a consist.
S - Non-AC Sleeper

Anyone who is traveling to India or watching IR videos should familiarize self with https://indianrailinfo.com . I so dearly wich that Amtrak ahd something like it, and mind you it is not something that Indian Railways maintains. It is a volunteers project.

 

[jis]

Jodhpur got electrified within the last couple of years. But then again, the Indian WDP4D Diesels are mammoth brutes. Very impressive engines. The original came with single cab. The Indian designed and produce a double cab unit since it is definitely less safe running single cab engines long hood forward.

But given the amount of electrification in place, some 85% of the system is now electrified, the real passenger work horses are the White with Red Band WAP-7s and WAP-5s both derivatives of original Bombardier products.

 

[BlackDiamond]

The WDP4D's definitely have an EMD sound to them, I suspect they were built using some EMD technology.

It is also cool to hear the Alcos that sometimes show up on the IR Diesel powered trains.

Also interesting that this particular trip was under wire for its entire run but they used a Diesel, maybe they were short of electrics that day?

 

[jis]

Trial run at 180kph (112.5mph) of Vande Bharat Express in Rajasthan on the Mumbai - Delhi route.



This is on the classic main line with no change in track profile other than maintenance to a tighter spec.

Incidentally, regular operation at such speeds in this area will have to await completion of track fencing. In India operating at 100mph and above requires fully fenced track, unlike in the US. It also require ETCS LEvel 2equivalent ATC system which is provided in India by the indigenous developed Kavach system discussed up thread.