Rail stations at Airports

[NW cannonball]

Schiphol Amsterdam airport (red arrow) in attached pdf-file representing Dutch passenger railway lines.
The fully coloured lines represent half-hourly service between about 0600-2000 hrs.
Black dot: all trains stop here.
No dot: train doesn't stop.

You can see Schiphol airport has pretty good connections.

Schiphol has had for 40+ years. Seems like good transport planning

 

[NW cannonball]

Exactly! This would not be the first time by a very very long shot that a tunnel was dug below the water table. Time to stretch ones imagination a bit I suppose.

Hehe. Decades ago, arriving KLM first time AMS, instructed by multilingual in-person help desk to NS station several levels down from runway level, (runways only a few meters below MSL)
The emergency exit signs at the NS (Nederlandse Spoorwagen) station maybe 10 meters below the runways or 13 meters below MSL
Showed 1600 meters to the nearest exit. I was not frightened at all. 1600 meters is only a mile.

 

[MIrailfan]

San Diego Airport has a very convenient frequent bus connection from the airport to Santa Fe Depot, and at least for now it seems to be more than adequate for extremely minimal capital cost.

very true, but hauling luggage on buses is very awkward.,

 

[cirdan]

Schiphol Amsterdam airport (red arrow) in attached pdf-file representing Dutch passenger railway lines.
The fully coloured lines represent half-hourly service between about 0600-2000 hrs.
Black dot: all trains stop here.
No dot: train doesn't stop.

You can see Schiphol airport has pretty good connections.

These are not just NS lines (the Dutch NS I mean). Some of the lines in the north of the country are run by other people than NS. It's a genuinely comprehensive map of passenger rail services (omitting only metros and local light rail lines for reasons of simplicity).

The map also shows the bus and ferry routes that connect the islands. I am surprised though that the bus crossing Afsluitdik is missing, as this can be used to connect between rail services and thus closes a gap in the rail network.

Piece of historical trivia: When the original Afsluitdijk was built in the 1930s it was planned to later build a double-track electrified railroad on it and space was reserved for this landside of the highway and even some preparatory concrete pored in places. Several studies were later done into the viability of this but all confirmed that there was insufficient demand in relation to the costs. Dutch railways then withdrew their interest and the project was de-listed from their development plans. One of the problems being the lack of obvious rail-based land approaches meaning a considerable length of railroad would have had to be built at either end to even reach the **** heads, hugely adding to the costs. Much of the alignment on the **** has since vanished as the space was needed to widen the highway. Looking at the number of cars driving here today, it is difficult to accept there is no case for a rail link.

The line between Zwolle and Lelystad mostly crosses land reclaimed from the sea. It was not completed until 2012 and provides a new shortcut between the north and the south of the country.

 

[jis]

very true, but hauling luggage on buses is very awkward.,

Depends on the bus. Low floor buses are no more awkward than low floor LRTs.

 

[joelkfla]

Depends on the bus. Low floor buses are no more awkward than low floor LRTs.

Depends on the door configuration and presence or absence of a level-boarding platform. Even low floor buses require lifting luggage a few inches from the street. If entry is thru a conventional front door, maneuvering around the corner past the driver's compartment and fare box is awkward with luggage. I don't have numbers, but it seems like many LRV's are wider than buses and have wider, more easily maneuvered aisles.

 

[jis]

Depends on the door configuration and presence or absence of a level-boarding platform. Even low floor buses require lifting luggage a few inches from the street. If entry is thru a conventional front door, maneuvering around the corner past the driver's compartment and fare box is awkward with luggage. I don't have numbers, but it seems like many LRV's are wider than buses and have wider, more easily maneuvered aisles.

But it is not worth a few hundred million dollars to just work around these absent the potential demand to justify the cost. Precious transit dollars should be used where needed and access to airports is not always their best use, given that often the rest of the urban area has precious little of it in typical US towns.

It really is much cheaper to build a bunch of low floor level boarding platforms than an entire LRT system

 

[cirdan]

But it is not worth a few hundred million dollars to just work around these absent the potential demand to justify the cost. Precious transit dollars should be used where needed and access to airports is not always their best use, given that often the rest of the urban area has precious little of it in typical US towns.

It really is much cheaper to build a bunch of low floor level boarding platforms than an entire LRT system

Airport connections are often prestige projects which is why, sometimes maybe, the same levels of scrutiny are not applied as are used in justifying other LRT projects.

 

[jis]

Specifically in San Diego, here is what happened to kibosh the original plan for an LRT connection to the airport, and what is currently under consideration in various stages of maturity, and none funded...

https://voiceofsandiego.org/2018/12/31/why-the-trolley-doesnt-go-to-the-san-diego-airport/

 

[cirdan]

Specifically in San Diego, here is what happened to kibosh the original plan for an LRT connection to the airport, and what is currently under consideration in various stages of maturity, and none funded...

https://voiceofsandiego.org/2018/12/31/why-the-trolley-doesnt-go-to-the-san-diego-airport/

interesting to note that article is dated 2018, and no progress since ....

 

[jis]

interesting to note that article is dated 2018, and no progress since ....

Apparently they have other bigger fish to fry for now. As I alluded to earlier, an airport light rail connection is not that high a priority at present. It is more or less a back burner thing for now.

 

[anilou]

There are subway system where the subway has individual stops serving separate terminals. In London Heathrow for example both the Piccadilly line and Elizabeth line do this. So essentially the metro system fulfils the role of ground-side circulator between the terminals (use is free for inter-terminal rides) while also assuring passengers arriving by metro don't need to change to a different vehicle.


For some reason that is not entirely clear to me, airports the world over seem to love gadgetbahns but need a lot of pushing, shoving and arm twisting to accept the extension of a regular light rail system even when one runs right up to their doorstep.

Maybe something to do with wanting to control everything themselves?

There is an Amtrak/Metrolink station one block from the Burbank(Bob Hope) airport. They have shuttles, but we just walk.

 

[BlackDiamond]

As far as I know there is not a subway closer to domestic bag claim and ticketing than ATL airport to MARTA, No intermediate transportation needed. BART might come close??i

Philadelphia, where the train platform is just down the hall from bag claim. It's regional rail rather than subway though.

 

[anilou]

As far as I know there is not a subway closer to domestic bag claim and ticketing than ATL airport to MARTA, No intermediate transportation needed. BART might come close??i

SFO has a BART station. In Oakland I think you have to catch a shuttle. San Jose has a 5 minute shuttle to the Caltrain station, which gets you to San Jose Diridon Amtrak.

 

[allanorn]

San Diego Airport has a very convenient frequent bus connection from the airport to Santa Fe Depot, and at least for now it seems to be more than adequate for extremely minimal capital cost.

There will be some sort of people-mover built from San Diego Airport Terminal 1 to the new rail station by Old Town if/when that is built. Extending the trolley is infeasible due to FRA regulations and having no good path to connect a rail line to downtown.

 

[jis]

There will be some sort of people-mover built from San Diego Airport Terminal 1 to the new rail station by Old Town if/when that is built. Extending the trolley is infeasible due to FRA regulations and having no good path to connect a rail line to downtown.

Well it could still be built, but it will cost way more than if the FRA mandated things did not have to be addressed..

 

[allanorn]

As far as I know there is not a subway closer to domestic bag claim and ticketing than ATL airport to MARTA, No intermediate transportation needed. BART might come close??i

Chicago has a connection to the L, but only one and I forget what terminal it is out of.

SFO has a BART station. In Oakland I think you have to catch a shuttle. San Jose has a 5 minute shuttle to the Caltrain station, which gets you to San Jose Diridon Amtrak.

SFO has a BART station on property that's directly connected to the airport. Oakland has a gadgetbahn that is run by BART and requires a separate fare to ride to the Oakland Coliseum BART station. San Jose uses the #60 bus which runs between the Milpitas BART station, the San Jose VTA tram, and the Santa Clara Caltrain station. It doesn't connect to Diridon directly.

 

[allanorn]

Well it could still be built, but it will cost way more than anyone is willing to spend on it.

It's in the approved plans and they're beginning work on the station in Terminal 1 soon (if not already). SANDAG wants it done. I forget who's pitching in money for what part though, but it's happening. They want to get rid of the buses to Old Town and have better connections for everyone north/east of Old Town via rail. The airport bus (#992) is great but a nightmare to connect to if you're not downtown, which is why there are buses connecting directly to Old Town.

Until relatively recently (2019-ish?) only airport fees and funds could be used on things at the airport for the airport. You couldn't use airport cash to build direct transit stations because Federal law didn't allow it. That's also why airports in the USA have all these weird gadgetbahns between airports and transit. (I don't know how the Portland MAX and Chicago "L" got around that; the city could have just ponied up the cash to outright build it.)

 

[railbuck]

Chicago has a connection to the L, but only one and I forget what terminal it is out of.

The Blue Line El at ORD has connecting walkways to terminals 1, 2, and 3. Access to terminal 5 is via the ATS people mover from terminal 3.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

The Blue Line El at ORD has connecting walkways to terminals 1, 2, and 3. Access to terminal 5 is via the ATS people mover from terminal 3.

Under the main parking garage (immediately under what was a temporary international terminal for ages) - quicker access than parking in the garages, since you don't have to take the elevator or stairs down to the walkway level like you do if you park. The people mover/ATS sort of connects to commuter rail too, but not well, plus only one line, the North Central Line, serves the airport. This is despite Metra being the way to really fly.*

https://www.flychicago.com/ohare/tofrom/publictransit/Pages/default.aspx
Midway has L access too, but not as formalized - a covered walk through the parking structure. But shorter than at O'Hare as befits a more compact airport with one security and exit point.

https://www.flychicago.com/midway/tofrom/publictransit/pages/default.aspx

*Metra Commercial, featuring old MED highliners while we're at it...

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Chicago has a connection to the L, but only one and I forget what terminal it is out of.

SFO has a BART station on property that's directly connected to the airport. Oakland has a gadgetbahn that is run by BART and requires a separate fare to ride to the Oakland Coliseum BART station. San Jose uses the #60 bus which runs between the Milpitas BART station, the San Jose VTA tram, and the Santa Clara Caltrain station. It doesn't connect to Diridon directly.

#60 makes a stop at the VTA light rail station where you can take the light rail directly to Diridon.

 

[allanorn]

#60 makes a stop at the VTA light rail station where you can take the light rail directly to Diridon.

Correct, which is the cheaper and often faster way to get to Diridon from the airport. Going by Caltrain you run the risk of hourly trains on the weekend.

The relatively easy way around that is to take the Rapid #522 bus downtown at the Santa Clara Caltrain station, which will stop within a couple-minute walk to Diridon. Not sure if it's faster than #60 to the light rail station to Diridon.

 

[uncleboots]

I talked to a member of MODOT, (Missouri Department Of Transportation). He said they had talked about s possible Amtrak Station at Lambert St. Louis Airport for a possible St. Louis-Moberly-Kansas City Amtrak Service.. He said the possible service would run over Norfolk Southern from St Louis to Carrollton, Mo and BNSF from (Carrollton to Kansas City, the same trackage the Southwest Chief uses). 83 percent of Missourians in a recent poll said they wanted additional Amtrak Service in the State. Don’t know if it will happen but the fact that they have considered it is a glimmer of hope.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

I talked to a member of MODOT, (Missouri Department Of Transportation). He said they had talked about s possible Amtrak Station at Lambert St. Louis Airport for a possible St. Louis-Moberly-Kansas City Amtrak Service.. He said the possible service would run over Norfolk Southern from St Louis to Carrollton, Mo and BNSF from (Carrollton to Kansas City, the same trackage the Southwest Chief uses). 83 percent of Missourians in a recent poll said they wanted additional Amtrak Service in the State. Don’t know if it will happen but the fact that they have considered it is a glimmer of hope.

Interesting! I had to look up Moberly. The tracks do go right alongside the airport per OpenRailwayMap. Certainly would be an interesting development.

 

[uncleboots]

Interesting! I had to look up Moberly. The tracks do go right alongside the airport per OpenRailwayMap. Certainly would be an interesting development.

Absolutely, I’ve been hoping for this for a long time, Back in the day, Union Pacific and Wabash ran a joint STL- LA City Of St Louis over this route.