Red Cap at Penn for disabled passenger

[papakim]

My mother and aunt are coming to Boston from NYC for Christmas. My aunt is disabled and cannot walk without assistance. She travels with a walker not a wheelchair. They plan to take a cab to Penn Station. Will the cab driver be able to get a Red Cap and wheelchair to bring them to the train? They will be unable to do so otherwise and she cannot use stairs. How do I book this ticket for these senior citizens so that their trip is safe and easy? We will meet them in Boston.

 

[the_traveler]

When you book the ticket, make sure this is notated on the reservation. If you book online, be sure to click the "person with disability" link to make your reservation. As a bonus, both qualify for a disability fare, which is 15% off!

In NYC, Red Caps meet all cabs to provide assistance to all if requested.

 

[Bill Nash]

You might want to consider the information on this web site ...

http://jasongibbs.com/pennstation/

Scroll down a ways for Red Cap info.

 

[ScottRu]

I've never failed to see a Red Cap give other than marvelous service to anyone with a disability. But the advice to alert Amtrak that help will be needed is excellent advice.

 

[the_traveler]

I second all the above. I also have a disability and have received excellent service from both the Red Caps and the train crew and staff!

 

[cfsnowy]

The Red Caps at NYP are excellent, and well worth the tips. I really like Mr. O'Sullivan, if he hasn't retired yet.

 

[Nathanale]

I have had incidents where Red Caps utterly failed to show up after being notified of a passenger with a disability. These incidents were rare, though.

Make sure you have the cab driver drop off at the correct entrance to get a Red Cap. From Mr. Gibbs's site (which also has excellent maps):

"Red Caps are available at the main Amtrak entrances on 8th Avenue and on the Service Drive, and at the Amtrak waiting area inside the station. Red Caps are generally not available at the 7th Avenue entrances."

However, the 8th avenue side does NOT have an elevator. The service drive does have an elevator.

So your mother and aunt HAVE to be dropped up at the service drive. This is the most important thing.

Odds are there will be a Red Cap there, or within a minute or two, and everything will be fine.

If there is no Red Cap there -- which there should be -- your mother should park your aunt next to the elevator and go in to drag a Red Cap out of the main waiting room. She needs to be really obnoxious if this happens, since Amtrak will already have failed -- say "I'M WITH A PASSENGER WITH A DISABILITY. THIS INFORMATION IS ON MY TICKET. WE NEED ASSISTANCE NOW."

Of course, do book the ticket using the "passenger with a disability" option.

 

[FriskyFL]

Unfortunately, as with all things Amtrak, YMMV. We hsd a similar experience as Nathaniel last year - no redcaps to be found, anywhere, on the 8th Ave end of NYP. This was a Saturday, not particularly busy. My DW uses a cane to walk, so schlepping two large suitcases was not an option. Solution was to take them below to the infernal region while DW waited above with carryons.

 

[AlanB]

If there is no Red Cap there -- which there should be -- your mother should park your aunt next to the elevator and go in to drag a Red Cap out of the main waiting room. She needs to be really obnoxious if this happens, since Amtrak will already have failed -- say "I'M WITH A PASSENGER WITH A DISABILITY. THIS INFORMATION IS ON MY TICKET. WE NEED ASSISTANCE NOW."

Being obnoxious isn't going to help anyone or anything. And there is no place on an Amtrak ticket, or even in Amtrak's reservation system, to note that a passenger needing assistance will be arriving by taxi at X time and needs a Redcap to be standing there waiting for them. Not going to happen!

Yes, Redcaps can often be found on the 8th Ave side and in the now closed to traffic service drive. But they don't stand there 24/7. Especially since they could already be helping someone else who might have arrived just a few minutes before you did.

Amtrak provides Redcap service, but they do NOT guarantee that they are at one's beck & call. Most Redcaps do try hard, but they can't be every place at all times. Especially since there are plenty of demands on them. At Penn, there can often be as many as 3 or 4 Recaps working the same train. And it is not uncommon to have more than 1 train requiring Redcap service at the same time. They don't have 100 Redcaps on duty at the same time. So again, there may not always be a Redcap standing there waiting for the next person needing help.

Last I knew, there were closed circuit phones that one could pick up to ask for a Redcap. But again, if that's needed or if one needs to go looking for one, being obnoxious is not the correct response!

 

[Nathanael]

Of course one should try the closed circuit phone first. And wait a reasonable amoung of time.

However, at LA (Patsouras end) I remember calling the phone for a RedCap. Waiting for 15 minutes. Calling again. Waiting for another 15 minutes. And then having to walk. We encountered a RedCap doing something else while we were walking!

I stopped his truck, yelled at him, and told him to pick us up. He did what he was supposed to after that. He did not get a tip.

If the RedCaps don't show up in a reasonable amount of time after being paged *for a disabled passenger*, you go down and you YELL at them.

It is their JOB to show up for disabled passengers. Everyone else is, frankly, not their job, but for disabled passengers, they ARE supposed to be at your beck and call -- it's part of Amtrak's ADA compliance and they had damn well better be available.

 

[Relations_Reality_Check]

I stopped his truck, yelled at him, and told him to pick us up. He did what he was supposed to after that. He did not get a tip.

If the RedCaps don't show up in a reasonable amount of time after being paged *for a disabled passenger*, you go down and you YELL at them.

It is their JOB to show up for disabled passengers. Everyone else is, frankly, not their job, but for disabled passengers, they ARE supposed to be at your beck and call -- it's part of Amtrak's ADA compliance and they had damn well better be available.

You could not be more wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Just because you are disabled, does not give you the right to be a jerk and a total a-hole. Such is no where included in the ADA compliance.

It is not their job to drop everything, and come a-running at your beckon call.

You have to wait your turn like very one else. Sorry, but you are not special.

 

[the_traveler]

I have to agree with the above statement. Even though I have a disability, I do not consider myself "special" for treatment. I'll wait my turn like anyone else. If they offer to take me first - fine. If not - I'm not going to be obnoxious and I'm not going to play the "Do you know who I am?" card!

True, ADA is to help disabled people, but there is nothing that says "You're number 1 no matter where you are" in the wording. It doesn't say that if you go to a store and want to checkout, the store must have a separate checkout available for you, hire an extra clerk and train them, and have them sit around for 8 hours a day in case you come in (it doesn't matter that you only go to that store 1-2 times a year) and then run to you when you want to check out. I'll wait in line like everyone.

For you're information, at LA when the TE/SL arrives, there are only 2 Red Caps on duty. Even at PDX, there is only 1 available. Many other stations don't have any, just one person (maybe the ticket agent or someone from the baggage room) is available to help. I don't expect them unreasonably to drop everything for me, yet I have received assistance in the following:

Kingston

Syracuse

Orlando

El Paso

Havre

Deerfield Beach

Etc...

I have even had the conductor/assistant conductor assist me at the station! Even to extent to delay the train. I do not expect them to do that, but they offered.

I for one would rather have Amtrak spend the money to hire all those extra Red Caps (who are Amtrak employees) instead be put to purchase new equipment.

 

[AlanB]

It is their JOB to show up for disabled passengers. Everyone else is, frankly, not their job, but for disabled passengers, they ARE supposed to be at your beck and call -- it's part of Amtrak's ADA compliance and they had damn well better be available.

You could NOT be more wrong on this one!

Redcaps existed long before there was ever an ADA law. Their job, as noted on the Amtrak website, is to provide free baggage service to anyone requesting help. Got that? Anyone! There is nothing that says that they exist to wait on a handicapped person and be at their beck & call. In fact, any Amtrak person could be assigned help someone with a disability.

And as noted by others, Redcaps must deal with passengers in the order that they arrive coupled with their order of departure. There is nothing in their mandate that says that they must drop everything, and perhaps causing other passengers to miss their train, simply because a handicapped person shows up. Especially one with a chip on their shoulder.

In fact, continued abuse like you describe here is likely to discourage them from ever wanting to help you or other ADA patrons.

 

[Trainmans daughter]

Usually, a "chip on their shoulder" IS a handicap! Just my opinion. Can't get a doctor's note for that.

 

[Guest]

I stopped his truck, yelled at him, and told him to pick us up. He did what he was supposed to after that. He did not get a tip.

If the RedCaps don't show up in a reasonable amount of time after being paged *for a disabled passenger*, you go down and you YELL at them.

It is their JOB to show up for disabled passengers. Everyone else is, frankly, not their job, but for disabled passengers, they ARE supposed to be at your beck and call -- it's part of Amtrak's ADA compliance and they had damn well better be available.

You could not be more wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Just because you are disabled, does not give you the right to be a jerk and a total a-hole. Such is no where included in the ADA compliance.

It is not their job to drop everything, and come a-running at your beckon call.

You have to wait your turn like very one else. Sorry, but you are not special.

You could not be more WRONG WRONG WRONG.

In the incident I described, we had arrived a great deal of time before the train.

The Red Cap had *no other passengers to attend to*, and simply decided to leave us out in the rain because he did not want to do his job. He was just mousing around doing things related to no passengers at all.

It is people with your attitude who cause problems. I hope you are never in a service job, because if you are you will be fired and you will deserve it.

Red Caps have a job to do. If they don't do it, they need to be yelled at -- at best.

There is nothing in their mandate that says that they must drop everything, and perhaps causing other passengers to miss their train, simply because a handicapped person shows up.

First of all the "causing other passengers to miss their train" nonsense is nonsense. I don't appreciate nonsense-spreaders. Non-disabled passengers can damn well get to their train on their own -- it is impossible for the Red Cap to cause them to miss their train.

Second, by failing to actually attend to disabled passengers, the Red Cap *MAY INDEED* be causing the disabled passenger to miss his or her train. THIS IS AN ADA VIOLATION -- a refusal to provide reasonable accomodations. This gets Amtrak sued. This causes Amtrak to *lose* such lawsuits. Amtrak has specifically delegated assistance to the Red Caps at these stations, you see.

Such lazy, irresponsible Red Caps who do not know what their jobs are need to be sacked. I am embarassed that so many here don't know what the Red Caps' jobs are either. Get those chips off your shoulders and do your research.

 

[Nathanael]

Usually, a "chip on their shoulder" IS a handicap! Just my opinion. Can't get a doctor's note for that.

You sure seem to have a big chip on your shoulder.

 

[Nathanael]

You could NOT be more wrong on this one!

Or, 100% right, to be more accurate.

Redcaps existed long before there was ever an ADA law.

Yes, and their job *changed* when Amtrak started using them to comply with the ADA.

Their job, as noted on the Amtrak website, is to provide free baggage service to anyone requesting help.

That's PART of their job...

There is nothing that says that they exist to wait on a handicapped person and be at their beck & call.

Actually, there pretty much is. Amtrak must provide assistance for mobility-impaired passengers in particular situations at particular stations -- and instructs mobility-impaired passengers to get such assistance from the Red Caps, guaranteeing that it will be available from the Red Caps.

If Amtrak had a completely different method of requesting and providing assistance -- as Amtrak does at stations without Red Caps -- that would be different.

In fact, any Amtrak person could be assigned help someone with a disability.

So true. Amtrak could have a completely separate set of ADA support carts, and a set of loaner wheelchairs, and could send ticket agents up to assist.

But in practice, Amtrak has assigned the Red Caps to help at the stations at which they are present. Which means they really have to do so, and they have to do so efficiently enough to get the disabled passengers to their train. The disabled passengers who may have no other means of getting to their train. See the problem?

 

[Nathanael]

Perhaps, to be generous, the people who are acting like idiots on this thread do not realize that sometimes the Red Caps *really do not show up* even after being paged on the phone multiple times and after waiting half an hour. It is that circumstance which I am referring to. In that circumstance, go and yell at them.

Amtrak has been sued over this sort of egregious situation before, when a disabled passenger was on her own and missed the train due to the failure of the Red Caps to show up for more than half an hour.

 

[the_traveler]

http://www.amtrak.com/baggage-services

This is from Amtrak.com - and nowhere do I see that it says that Red Cap assistance is ONLY for those who qualify for ADA. What I see is that it's available for anyone!

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

YES the RC service was in place Prior the ADA .......

As the De facto assistance for any one service . once the ADA was pased the RC was put on Point to be the main people assist .... Provided there IS RC service at that station .

If there is no RC then the normal employees need to take the ball and roll .

Yes Redcap is for any one /

but YES to maintain ADA they need to take care of the persons whom are handicapped first .

There IS some triage that they need to do and need to help those with ADA need first .....

 

[Bob Dylan]

Hate to Disagree with you on This One but Alan is Right! It's First Come, First Served when it Comes to Red Caps! Amtrak Employees do try to Help all Passengers that Request It but in Very Busy Cities and where there is Only 1 Agent You just have to Wait your Turn and in Some Cases (like in PHL, NYP,CHI) They Don't Get to Everyone due to the Crush of People,(Hundreds of People Boarding/De-Training) Hence it's a Good idea to Request Staff Assistance when you Make your Reservation and Ask for Red Cap or Staff Assistance when you Check In @ the Station!

 

[the_traveler]

Yes Redcap is for any one /

but YES to maintain ADA they need to take care of the persons whom are handicapped first.

If I arrive at a station, and all the Red Caps are helping other passengers, do you really expect them to throw the other person's luggage on the floor or ground and kick them out and say "I've got to help this other person right now because of ADA!"? :huh: (I'm sure the person being helped would certainly understand - especially if they're 1/2 way to their train leaving in 15 minutes and your train does not depart for 5 hours.)
If that's not what you're saying, please clarify.

 

[PRR 60]

I don't see where Red Caps are listed as a means of ADA compliance. There is no indication that an ADA need immediately trumps other Red Cap work to the point that they must drop everything to help.

The page for station accessibility states this:

Tips for getting assistance at a station

Make a specific request for accessible service: The best way to make sure that you receive the assistance at a station is to make a specific request for assistance when you make your reservation. If you book your trip on Amtrak.com, you can request the use of a station-provided wheelchair to help you get to your train, or assistance from a uniformed Amtrak staff member.

Plan for extra time: To ensure adequate time for assistance, please arrive at the station at least one hour prior to the train departure time.

At stations staffed by Amtrak employees, our personnel will provide assistance to and from the restrooms or with stairs. Courtesy wheelchairs are available at most of our staffed stations, and our larger stations have a passenger service office where you can request assistance.

Common sense should come into play. If someone with special needs shows up at a busy station like Penn at rush hour, there is a possibility that help may not be immediately available. Other customers with baggage may be queued for help first. However, if after a reasonable period help is not coming, or if there are Red Caps just standing around doing nothing, then some escalation of the issue is warranted.

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

Yes Redcap is for any one /

but YES to maintain ADA they need to take care of the persons whom are handicapped first.

If I arrive at a station, and all the Red Caps are helping other passengers, do you really expect them to throw the other person's luggage on the floor or ground and kick them out and say "I've got to help this other person right now because of ADA!"? :huh: (I'm sure the person being helped would certainly understand - especially if they're 1/2 way to their train leaving in 15 minutes and your train does not depart for 5 hours.)
If that's not what you're saying, please clarify.

close .... but not exacyy what I ment.

Lets say you me and Alan are gonna take a trip . lets place you in the chair .

Alan leaves at noon

yours and mine 12:30

Its 11:30 right now

The red cap needs to If she or he can , take care of Alan and get him out of the way . then in sted of picking the person in line they then take care of the person in the chair first you then on to the non chair pax Me .

at no point should they " dump" Alan . this will just make matters worse .

they need to " bump" the list ............... that is at least to me the most reasonable . If it takes less then 10 Min per pax to deal with them . then bumping is darn near real time anyways.

and heck With some one gettng to the station early EG a hour then at no point in time Should there be a problem with squeezing in some one whom needs handicap assatance .

Its not my dentist . its people whizzng about on a cart .

Its a form of triage ........

 

[the_traveler]

I'll agree with you - to a point.

I agree that there should be no dumping and the line should allow bumping. However I must disagree about the golf carts. Yes they do use carts in PDX, LAX, CHI, WAS and other stations. At NYP, PHL and BOS there are none.