Remembering the Golden Age that Preceded Amtrak

[Bob Dylan]

The Senator and Congressional when they were newly re-equipped with streamlined cars in 1952, were in stark contrast to the typical PRR 'corridor' trains of the time, carrying mostly Tuscan red P-70 coaches. They really stood out with their matched stainless steel consists. Most of the coaches featured a 14 seat 'smoking lounge' at one end. The trains had blunt end parlor observation cars, full service diners, tavern lounge coffee shop, and even drawing room parlor cars. They also had a mobile phone service. The Afternoon Congressional was the fastest New York/Washington train (3:35), until the Metroliner's arrived.
The trains did degrade considerably, in the Penn Central era.
http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track3/congressionals195212.html
http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track3/senator195504.html

Still remember when the " Hot" Metroliners arrived! ( I lived in Washington for a long time)I actually preferred riding on the NEC in them over any other Type of Car, (especially once Amtrak started), including Acela later on!!

 

[Railspike]

My initial train ride commenced in the early-mid 50s from Dallas to St. Louis on the MKT/Frisco Texas Special to see both sets of my grandparents in St. Louis. We used to catch the Texas Special at the suburban University Park station rather than downtown Dallas' Union Station for convenience. You could set your watch by that train. The equipment and service were excellent. It was one of the "crack" trains of the Southwest in its day. We got a bedroom or roomettes depending on availability.

The food was also excellent. I used to get stares from the wait staff in the diner when at such a young age I always ordered their famous onion soup. Delicious! However, dinner had to wait until after the car switch at Denison (approx 8 PM). I would stand at the rear of the observation car and watch and wave at the switching crew. The very car I stood in is shown below. It was sold when the train was dropped and I think it ended up in Mexico.

In the morning it was always a treat to see if the T&P/MoPac Texas Eagle's timing would allow for a race on their parallel track heading into St. Louis. I witnessed a race a few times while having breakfast in the diner prior to our arrival in St. Louis.

At some point, my Dad decided we should take the Texas Eagle to St. Louis from Dallas. We did and never switched back to the TS because of the Eagle's dome car. For a kid to sit in the front seat of the dome (or any seat in the dome for that matter) and watch the mars light and passing green-to-red signals at night was mesmerizing.
The morning also brought a ride right along the banks of the Mississippi River as we approached St. Louis. The trip in reverse from St. Louis to Dallas was just as fun.

Still riding trains after all these years. Amtrak, even with all of its financial issues, could do so much better. They could start by putting a person or two who actually ride trains on their Board. Never happen. Too much politics.

 

[jiml]

My initial train ride commenced in the early-mid 50s from Dallas to St. Louis on the MKT/Frisco Texas Special to see both sets of my grandparents in St. Louis. We used to catch the Texas Special at the suburban University Park station rather than downtown Dallas' Union Station for convenience. You could set your watch by that train. The equipment and service were excellent. It was one of the "crack" trains of the Southwest in its day. We got a bedroom or roomettes depending on availability.

The food was also excellent. I used to get stares from the wait staff in the diner when at such a young age I always ordered their famous onion soup. Delicious! However, dinner had to wait until after the car switch at Denison (approx 8 PM). I would stand at the rear of the observation car and watch and wave at the switching crew. The very car I stood in is shown below. It was sold when the train was dropped and I think it ended up in Mexico.

In the morning it was always a treat to see if the T&P/MoPac Texas Eagle's timing would allow for a race on their parallel track heading into St. Louis. I witnessed a race a few times while having breakfast in the diner prior to our arrival in St. Louis.

At some point, my Dad decided we should take the Texas Eagle to St. Louis from Dallas. We did and never switched back to the TS because of the Eagle's dome car. For a kid to sit in the front seat of the dome (or any seat in the dome for that matter) and watch the mars light and passing green-to-red signals at night was mesmerizing.
The morning also brought a ride right along the banks of the Mississippi River as we approached St. Louis. The trip in reverse from St. Louis to Dallas was just as fun.

Still riding trains after all these years. Amtrak, even with all of its financial issues, could do so much better. They could start by putting a person or two who actually ride trains on their Board. Never happen. Too much politics.

View attachment 20548

I've always thought the Frisco was one of the railroads that never received enough attention.

 

[toddinde]

My pre-Amtrak rides were on the Milwaukee Road and the Chicago & North Western between Milwaukee and Chicago with one exception. My dad took me on the last pre-Amtrak run from Milwaukee to Port Washington on the C&NW’s Shoreline subdivision. By that time, the service only ran on Sundays and holidays which seems kind of ridiculous, but that was the only train on the route at the end. I rode all the major non-Amtrak’s; the Southern Crescent, Rio Grande Zephyr, and Quad Cities Rocket, and sampled the dining cars on all three. I also rode Amtrak’s City of San Francisco in the summer of ‘71, and the Super Chief in the summer of ‘72, both of which were pretty much railroad operated although the Super Chief was pure Santa Fe with warbonnet Fs, but the City was definitely rainbow. It had the beautiful SP home built dome lounge cars, and in Denver, the separate Denver Zephyr cars were added including the Chuck Wagon Dome Lounge. Nice trips. Thanks Dad.

 

[railiner]

I've always thought the Frisco was one of the railroads that never received enough attention.

Agreed...it was another one of those that eluded me in the final pre-Amtrak years. It's route structure was somewhat unique, in that it ran on both sides of the traditional US East/West "gateways" of Chicago, St. Louis, Memphis, and New Orleans. The other one that did similar, was the Wabash. Some roads slipped between the major 'gateways' at places like Peoria or Vicksburg on branch lines.
When the Burlington Northern acquired the Frisco, it became the only US railroad whose routes entered both the west coast states (CA, OR, WA, [&BC]); and an east coast state (FL).
The Frisco even ran a thru train between Kansas City and Pensacola, at one time. I don't believe the Wabash ever ran a thru train from Omaha all the way to Detroit (or Buffalo). You would have had to change in at least, St. Louis...

 

[Palmland]

My initial train ride commenced in the early-mid 50s from Dallas to St. Louis on the MKT/Frisco Texas Special to see both sets of my grandparents in St. Louis. We used to catch the Texas Special at the suburban University Park station rather than downtown Dallas' Union Station for convenience. You could set your watch by that train. The equipment and service were excellent. It was one of the "crack" trains of the Southwest in its day. We got a bedroom or roomettes depending on availability.

What a great photo. I do wish I had a chance to ride the Frisco. Even towards the end I think they had an effort to maintain decent service by a limited upgrade of daytime service with the 'Oklahoman' between St. Louis and Oklahoma City and the 'Southland' between Kansas City and Memphis/Birmingham. Both had a 'Chair-Lounge-Buffet car'. They also did some creative scheduling with having all four trains meet about the same time in Springfield, MO to improve connectivity - something Amtrak doesn't fully understand. I think the deteriorating condition of the M-K-T was a factor on the decline of the TS.

 

[Palmland]

Lots of great rides there, thanks for posting! Of the routes you mentioned, one that eluded me was the Texas Zephyr route...

I was very fortunate as my ride was at the very end in 1967. The Texas Zephyr had already been discontinued but the night train from Denver was upgraded from all coach with a sleeper and the observation/cafe. Probably a deal with the ICC that permitted the end of the TZ. The line was freight only a couple months later.

 

[railiner]

I was very fortunate as my ride was at the very end in 1967. The Texas Zephyr had already been discontinued but the night train from Denver was upgraded from all coach with a sleeper and the observation/cafe. Probably a deal with the ICC that permitted the end of the TZ. The line was freight only a couple months later.

View attachment 20550

I even missed my chance to ride over the Joint Line, on that last Santa Fe local that ran between Denver and La Junta...

 

[MilwaukeeRoadLover]

It doesn't matter what decade or train you are talking about, when you are a child riding any train is always a Golden Era.

Child or first time train fan

 

[20th Century Rider]

Child or first time train fan

Hi MilwaukeeRoadLover! Me too! Me too! Just loved riding the Milwaukee Road... can still smell the varnish of the wood and soft comfortable seats as it guided out of the Milwaukee station in the early 60's. Will always be in love with those beautiful passenger trains!

BTW proud Shorewood HS graduate... class of '65!

 

[WWW]

Hi MilwaukeeRoadLover! Me too! Me too! Just loved riding the Milwaukee Road... can still smell the varnish of the wood and soft comfortable seats as it guided out of the Milwaukee station in the early 60's. Will always be in love with those beautiful passenger trains!

BTW proud Shorewood HS graduate... class of '65!
View attachment 20552

View attachment 20553

In the first (top) photo what station was that ?
The black shed roof looks like it would be Minneapolis - but the clock tower in the background is not correct -
and the trains departing the Minneapolis station did not turn left (they turn to the right) and 5 blocks later
after leaving the depot crossing the Washington Avenue viaduct taking the short-line route to St. Paul's Union Depot.
The Milwaukee depot in Minneapolis was used by the Milwaukee Road - Soo Line - and the Rock Island RR
The Minneapolis Milwaukee depot has been converted into a skating rink under the black shed roof - the clock tower is still there.

More History of the Minneapolis Milwaukee depot:
Minneapolis station (Milwaukee Road) - Wikipedia


In the second photo the fabulous skytop observation car - there were only 4 built and only -1- runs the rails today - the
Cedar Rapids owned by the 261 - the other mates - the Priest Rapids - Dell Rapids and **** Rapids are history -
Reference LINK:

Where are the Skytops? (trainweb.org)

Very interesting history behind the Milwaukee Road Skytop and Beaver Tail observation cars

Egads this internet thing is intoxicating

 

[Dakota 400]

The Senator and Congressional when they were newly re-equipped with streamlined cars in 1952, were in stark contrast to the typical PRR 'corridor' trains of the time, carrying mostly Tuscan red P-70 coaches. They really stood out with their matched stainless steel consists. Most of the coaches featured a 14 seat 'smoking lounge' at one end. The trains had blunt end parlor observation cars, full service diners, tavern lounge coffee shop, and even drawing room parlor cars. They also had a mobile phone service. The Afternoon Congressional was the fastest New York/Washington train (3:35), until the Metroliner's arrived.
The trains did degrade considerably, in the Penn Central era.
http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track3/congressionals195212.html
http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track3/senator195504.html

On The Senator, was the Coffee Shop Tavern Car the same as the Coffee Shop Car? I am thinking that it was and it's just a different name in the listings.

 

[Dakota 400]

Still remember when the " Hot" Metroliners arrived!

I had a roundtrip on the Metroliners once between New Carrollton and New York. I remember that the train was so fast--scenery was whipping by--and the leg room in coach was great. Seats were comfortable as well. We got a bite to eat in the morning on the way to New York because we had nothing for breakfast before we left for the station.. (It was a very early train.)

I also remember the Conductor or the Trainman telling us as we approached New Carrollton to be ready to get off the train quickly. The station stop would be very short.

 

[Trogdor]

In the first (top) photo what station was that ?
The black shed roof looks like it would be Minneapolis - but the clock tower in the background is not correct -
and the trains departing the Minneapolis station did not turn left (they turn to the right) and 5 blocks later
after leaving the depot crossing the Washington Avenue viaduct taking the short-line route to St. Paul's Union Depot.

First picture is the old Milwaukee (WI) station, which was a couple of blocks north of the current Milwaukee Intermodal Station.

 

[20th Century Rider]

In the first (top) photo what station was that ?
The black shed roof looks like it would be Minneapolis - but the clock tower in the background is not correct -
and the trains departing the Minneapolis station did not turn left (they turn to the right) and 5 blocks later
after leaving the depot crossing the Washington Avenue viaduct taking the short-line route to St. Paul's Union Depot.
The Milwaukee depot in Minneapolis was used by the Milwaukee Road - Soo Line - and the Rock Island RR
The Minneapolis Milwaukee depot has been converted into a skating rink under the black shed roof - the clock tower is still there.

More History of the Minneapolis Milwaukee depot:
Minneapolis station (Milwaukee Road) - Wikipedia


In the second photo the fabulous skytop observation car - there were only 4 built and only -1- runs the rails today - the
Cedar Rapids owned by the 261 - the other mates - the Priest Rapids - Dell Rapids and **** Rapids are history -
Reference LINK:

Where are the Skytops? (trainweb.org)

Very interesting history behind the Milwaukee Road Skytop and Beaver Tail observation cars

Egads this internet thing is intoxicating

Thank you for your response... authenticity is important.

So I went back to research the building underneath that clock tower... and looked at different pics of it... it does seem to be the Milwaukee Road Station in Milwaukee which may have changed in appearance as modifications were made. I may be wrong and I'm always open to more information...

Top picture with inset shows station pictured is indeed in Milwaukee. Historical records also seem to pictorially verify this to be the station. I've reposted the picture in question on the bottom for view comparisons.

 

[MARC Rider]

I had a roundtrip on the Metroliners once between New Carrollton and New York. I remember that the train was so fast--scenery was whipping by--and the leg room in coach was great. Seats were comfortable as well. We got a bite to eat in the morning on the way to New York because we had nothing for breakfast before we left for the station.. (It was a very early train.)

I also remember the Conductor or the Trainman telling us as we approached New Carrollton to be ready to get off the train quickly. The station stop would be very short.

I rode a Metroliner down to Baltimore in 1969 to visit my grandparents. They seemed so futuristic, but the interiors were pretty much identical to today's Amfleets. I would occasionally ride one down to Wilmington on one of my after-school joyrides. One time, the engineer even let me ride in the cab and look over his shoulder. It was kind of cool seeing the speed readout hit 110 mph. They had a digital readout, but I'm not sure whether it was Nixie tubes or a real honest to goodness LED digital readout. This was about 1970 or so.

 

[jis]

They had a digital readout, but I'm not sure whether it was Nixie tubes or a real honest to goodness LED digital readout. This was about 1970 or so.

It was probably a tad early for LED digital readout application in a critical component like the Speedometer, in a traditionally hidebound railroad industry, considering that the first practical LED digital display, the HP Model 5082-7000 Numeric Indicator, became available in February of 1969.

 

[railiner]

On The Senator, was the Coffee Shop Tavern Car the same as the Coffee Shop Car? I am thinking that it was and it's just a different name in the listings.

Same car...in the PRR timetables in the 1953 ORG, they called them "Coffee Shop Tavern"...

 

[railiner]

I rode a Metroliner down to Baltimore in 1969 to visit my grandparents. They seemed so futuristic, but the interiors were pretty much identical to today's Amfleets. I would occasionally ride one down to Wilmington on one of my after-school joyrides. One time, the engineer even let me ride in the cab and look over his shoulder. It was kind of cool seeing the speed readout hit 110 mph. They had a digital readout, but I'm not sure whether it was Nixie tubes or a real honest to goodness LED digital readout. This was about 1970 or so.

The cab in the Metroliner's, was about the tiniest one I can recall...even made subway car cabs look roomy in comparison.
As for the digital speedometer...could it have been a vacuum fluorescent display?

 

[iliketrains]

The days when African-Americans had to sit in segregated cars and they could only work as servants on the trains. Reminiscent of awful times in this country for many people.

 

[20th Century Rider]

Very important issue which continues to say that America still has a long way to go. And should be discussed on this forum.

There was indeed much segregation on the trains, busses, boats, housing... and many places throughout the country. The shrines and museums dedicated to remembering the past are not enough to move us as a country to the place we need to be.

And we still have a long way to go to be a nation that unites all its people with equal rights and equal justice.

This Segregated Railway Car Offers a Visceral Reminder of the Jim Crow Era... Subtle and not-so-subtle reminders of a time when local and state laws forced racial segregation. See Smithsonian and other documentations below:


https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smit...ers-visceral-reminder-jim-crow-era-180959383/
That 'Trains Magazine' misspelled 'segregation' is itself disturbing:

http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/p/243776/2716247.aspx
http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/6329/

 

[Bob Dylan]

Very important issue which continues to say that America still has a long way to go. And should be discussed on this forum.

There was indeed much segregation on the trains, busses, boats, housing... and many places throughout the country. The shrines and museums dedicated to remembering the past are not enough to move us as a country to the place we need to be.

And we still have a long way to go to be a nation that unites all its people with equal rights and equal justice.

This Segregated Railway Car Offers a Visceral Reminder of the Jim Crow Era... Subtle and not-so-subtle reminders of a time when local and state laws forced racial segregation. See Smithsonian and other documentations below:

View attachment 20563
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smit...ers-visceral-reminder-jim-crow-era-180959383/
That 'Trains Magazine' misspelled 'segregation' is itself disturbing:

http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/p/243776/2716247.aspx
http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/6329/

When I was riding on the Southern back in the '50s, we were in a 10×6 Sleeper that was like New (the Attendant was Black) with a spiffy Dinner( the Cooks were Black) that was for "Whites only".

The so called " Colored Car" was a really dowdy Heavyweight Coach that was probably from the 1920s, or Before!

"Seperate but Equal" was one of those Big Lies that will Live in Infamy!

 

[20th Century Rider]

When I was riding on the Southern back in the '50s, we were in a 10×6 Sleeper that was like New (the Attendant was Black) with a spiffy Dinner( the Cooks were Black) that was for "Whites only".

The so called " Colored Car" was a really dowdy Heavyweight Coach that was probably from the 1920s, or Before!

"Seperate but Equal" was one of those Big Lies that will Live in Infamy!

Wow... what vivid memories you have... very amazing in a very sad way. Let us collect our energies to move America in the direction it needs to go - in recognizing the importance of each individual. And in that is the blessing from above.

 

[Steve4031]

There is a segregated railroad car in the African American museum in Washington DC. It was a streamlined coach with a divider in the middle. I think some of these cars lasted into the 70s. I walked through cars with those types of dividers on the Broadway Limited in 1978. Obviously there was no segregation and the seating on both sides was the same.

The thing that caused me to remember his car was that I was walking the train looking at the different types of cars in the consist. As I walked through there were several African American guys with a boom box playing Bad Girls by Donna Summers. This was and is one of my favorite songs. Every time I it I remember that train ride.

 

[hlcteacher]

The days when African-Americans had to sit in segregated cars and they could only work as servants on the trains. Reminiscent of awful times in this country for many people.

thank you for the recognition and the reminder, it was such a "golden age" for many