Removing Long Distance Trains North of NYP

[AlanB]

And from the Free Dictionary:

pre·domi·nate·ly (-nt-l) adv.pre·domi·nation n.

pre·domi·nator n.

 

[DET63]

And from the Free Dictionary:

pre·domi·nate·ly (-nt-l) adv.pre·domi·nation n.

pre·domi·nator n.

The Free Dictionary here is quoting from "The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved."

However, it is showing it as a variation of predominant, without indicating a judgment as to which is correct or not.

My example (same page in The Free Dictionary) is from "Kernerman English Learner’s Dictionary © 1986-2008 K Dictionaries Ltd and partners. All rights reserved."

It doesn't show predominately as an option.

 

[jis]

Welcome to English Language Discussion

Now that we have been updated on the minutia about the subtle differences between adjectives and adverbs and what they can or cannot do, may we now carry on with the original discussion?

In which case, would someone please enlighten us on the matter of Metroliner vs New England Express to Boston? I recall having traveled on a Metroliner consist equipped train from New York to Boston called New England Express during the late diesel era. Was there a real Metroliner called Metroliner that went to Boston? How long did it run?

And (just to annoy DET ) the trip on the New England Express was really nice. Somehow Amtrak was able to change from electric to diesel in less than 15 mins flat in New Haven too!

 

[Donctor]

In which case, would someone please enlighten us on the matter of Metroliner vs New England Express to Boston? I recall having traveled on a Metroliner consist equipped train from New York to Boston called New England Express during the late diesel era. Was there a real Metroliner called Metroliner that went to Boston? How long did it run?

There was, in fact, a Metroliner to Boston. I recall having seen it in a timetable or two. At this moment I cannot tell you exactly when it ran, though I will be able to later today (after examining my collection of timetables).

 

[AlanB]

And from the Free Dictionary:

pre·domi·nate·ly (-nt-l) adv.pre·domi·nation n.

pre·domi·nator n.

The Free Dictionary here is quoting from "The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved."

However, it is showing it as a variation of predominant, without indicating a judgment as to which is correct or not.

My example (same page in The Free Dictionary) is from "Kernerman English Learner’s Dictionary © 1986-2008 K Dictionaries Ltd and partners. All rights reserved."

It doesn't show predominately as an option.

As long as more than one dictionary is showing it, and there are 3 that are showing it, that's good enough for me and it proves that it is an acceptable spelling.

Besides, I just rely on the spell checking and my own eyes. If they both get it wrong, then what I write will be wrong. I'm not going to start doing more like consulting my dictionary, much less Kernerman's English dictionary, for every paragraph that I write. Sorry!

 

[AlanB]

According to this blurb from Trains Magazine, it ran for almost two years:

October 31, 1982Express Metroliner running time reduced to 2 hours, 49 minutes, and remaining Metroliners all scheduled for under 3 hours, for the first time in several years. Two New England Metroliner round trips introduced between New York and Boston.

April 28, 1984

New England Metroliner makes last round trips.

For those who subscribe to Trains, you can view the entire Metroliner history here.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

I want to fine tune what I said earlier about not all trains from NY to points south having both coaches and sleepers.

As already noted, most ACL and Seaboard trains did have both coaches and pullmans from NY to points south. But that the Southern did not.

My Southern timetables date back to the 40's. So far as I know those trains only had sleepers from NYC to points south with one exception. All coach passengers had to change in WAS, except on the Southerner , a streamliner built new in 1941. The Southerner added sleepers in 1949 but they did not go all the way to NOL, just ATL and BHM.

In 1971 they decided to somehow combine into one entity, the Crescent, basically a pullman train, with the Southerner, largely a coach train. The name for this "new" service: the Southern Crescent, a name which would remain until Amtrak took over in 1979. The resulting product thus was one full train with both coaches AND sleepers on the same train, from NYC to NOL. First ever, at least in my lifetime.

Other trains on this route were the Piedmont Limited, the Washington Atlanta New Orleans Express (which did not go to New Orleans and was not an express), the Peach Queen and one nameless local. None had through coaches to and from NY. Also, on a different Southern route,splitting at Lynchburg, were the Birmingham Special, Tennessean and Pelican all of which had through sleepers to various southern cities but not through coaches.

 

[colobok]

How would passengers in sleeper accommodations feel about getting kicked out of their rooms in DC and having to transfer to either Acela or Regional business class to finish their trip? Conversely, how would passengers from New York feel about a regional trip before they can get into their rooms in DC?
One can argue that providing sleeper accommodations isn't Amtrak's primary purpose. However, I think by axing long-distance trains on the corridor and their sleeper accommodations, you're creating a less desirable trip for passengers who can afford it.

I can understand the point about sleeper accommodations, but what about trains that don't have sleepers?

For example - Palmetto. Instead of running it from SAV to NYP they could run it from ORL to WAS and have one more train coming to Florida.

 

[colobok]

And Neil, while you may not mind and I respect that (I personally don't care either), it is quite clear from the numbers that many passengers do mind. Again, ridership on the Cardinal went way up when it was extended to NY. I can't find the numbers anymore, but I seem to recall that they took close to a 30% jump, which for that rather slow, round about train, is very good.
Additionally look at the pricing on the Texas Eagle/Sunset Limited. The through cars are always more expensive than making the switch in San Antonio. Granted that's a horrible switch, since it's several hours on the ground and in the middle of the night. But again, the numbers are there.

Heck Amtrak even runs the Northeast Regionals from Richmond through, simply because passengers hate to switch. It would be far cheaper for Amtrak to stop swapping engines in DC, loop the train, and sent it back south. But they don't do that because it would hurt the ridership numbers big time.

It is questionable what is better - to have ridership 30% up on one route or release extra equipment and establish a new extra route.

 

[AlanB]

And Neil, while you may not mind and I respect that (I personally don't care either), it is quite clear from the numbers that many passengers do mind. Again, ridership on the Cardinal went way up when it was extended to NY. I can't find the numbers anymore, but I seem to recall that they took close to a 30% jump, which for that rather slow, round about train, is very good.
Additionally look at the pricing on the Texas Eagle/Sunset Limited. The through cars are always more expensive than making the switch in San Antonio. Granted that's a horrible switch, since it's several hours on the ground and in the middle of the night. But again, the numbers are there.

Heck Amtrak even runs the Northeast Regionals from Richmond through, simply because passengers hate to switch. It would be far cheaper for Amtrak to stop swapping engines in DC, loop the train, and sent it back south. But they don't do that because it would hurt the ridership numbers big time.

It is questionable what is better - to have ridership 30% up on one route or release extra equipment and establish a new extra route.

It's questionable that terminating any route 3 hours short of where it currently terminates will even free up one trainset for use elsewhere, and one trainset doesn't allow Amtrak to start a new extra route.

Besides, then we return to the problem that DC doesn't have the capacity to handle more trainsets.

 

[Rob_C]

This seems like the place to present my: "What if I ran Amtrak allocation scenario".

First of all, put the brakes on all *but* the baggage dorms, Diner, and baggage viewliner order for now. We have more than enough to fill the need under the new plan.

Second, get that Superliner III order going yesterday. We're going to need lots of "America's Train Car" so we'd better get building them! (including the short hop/Surfliner variants for midwest and expanded northwest services once we sell the Talgos to VIA!)

The existing viewliners and Amfleet's are used exclusively on trains out of NYP. Viewliner sleepers are assigned to the following:

Revived BROADWAY LIMITED - fastest routing NYP to CHI

TWILIGHT SHORELINER

Overnight MAPLE LEAF NYP - Toronto

SILVER METEOR (or fastest routing NYP-Miami)

All other overnight trains begin/terminate in WAS using Superliner equipment with convenient "across the platform"/free business class upgrade transfer to NEC trains in WAS.

CAPITOL LIMITED

CARDINAL

CRESCENT

SILVER STAR

SILVER PALM/PALMETTO

Additionally the Lake Shore Limited runs to Boston with Superliners with "across the platform" transfer to Empire Service for connections to NYP.

And of course additional Superliners would be needed for a restored Pioneer, Desert Wind and some sort of Texas-Denver service, Sunset East and CHI-Miami!

Lots of building to be done right here in the USA!

IMHO

 

[AlanB]

And watch ridership plunge with that plan.

The Boston section is the weak part of the LSL, and even that train saw huge losses in ridership with the cross platform transfer to the stub train. Now you want to force passengers from the busy part of the current train to transfer. I predict that at least 1/4th to 1/3rd of the ridership to disapear under this plan.

You'll also see dramatic drops in ridership on the Silver Service and the Crescent, as well as the Cardinal which saw a major jump in ridership after it started running to NYP. And there is a reason that NARP and other's keep pushing to get one of the Silver's to run to Boston.

By the way, for the record, America's train is the Viewliner. Amtrak owns that design. Canadian based Bombardier now owns the Superliner designs.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

[Donctor]

By the way, for the record, America's train is the Viewliner. Amtrak owns that design. Canadian based Bombardier now owns the Superliner designs.

Very true. Although, what I'd call "America's Train" would be the Budd designs. Even if they weren't based off of designs originally conceived in the U.S., they were the face of passenger rail for so many years.

 

[tp49]

Welcome to English Language Discussion
Now that we have been updated on the minutia about the subtle differences between adjectives and adverbs and what they can or cannot do, may we now carry on with the original discussion?

I found that part of the discussion a wonderful way to cure my insomnia.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

You'll also see dramatic drops in ridership on the Silver Service and the Crescent, as well as the Cardinal which saw a major jump in ridership after it started running to NYP. And there is a reason that NARP and other's keep pushing to get one of the Silver's to run to Boston.

I could dig a Silver running to/from Boston. I really could...

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Traveling from NYP to ATL. I would loathe, absolutely loathe. having to get off one train with my luggage on to another, at dinner hour, in WAS.

Instead I typically eat dinner before WAS and just stroll the platform while in the WAS station.

Keep life simple, that is what I say. That is part of the train experience, just relax, not constant hassling.

And my historical notes above about some trains not having through coach service from NYC to certain southern points in the preAmtrak past did not mean I approved of that, not at all. Just noting it existed.

I believe I have read the reasons for the above note disconnect I unfortunately do not remember what they were. I will try to look it up. Might have been bad blood between some carriers instead of something more logical.

 

[CHANGEATJAMAICA]

For us folks beginning our journey(s) upline from New York, it doesn't make a big difference whether we change at NYP or WAS...at least not for this upline traveler.

Each year for the last two and, again next I hope; I've taken Acela BOS/WAS and connected with the SM for the trip down to the penninsula; and the reverse on the way back. Actually I prefer Acela especially on the final return leg as it gets me home faster...and in style. A number of times over the past six years the bride and I have traveled on various LDs. Our first trip was on the LSL BOS/CHI when there was a sleeper originating in BOS. The service on the LSL was so bad we've done everything we can to avoid the LSL. That's included taking Acela BOS/WAS and connecting to the CAP and the reverse.

We've also connected with the Crescent in WAS ilo NYP; again traveling BOS/WAS/BOS on Acela. This year we wanted to stop in New York for a couple of hours for a GENUINE New York Kosher Deli lunch. (Ben's 7th & 37th) and took a Regional to NYP where after our GENUINE New York Kosher Deli lunch we boarded the Crescent to NOL. But the lunch aside, WAS is as good or better than NYP for me. Cost MORE? Heck yes, especially when the fare NYP/SRA is the same as WAS/SRA and Acela demands...and gets a PREMIUM fare for the first class service...which equates in my opinion to what international

business class was on TWA, PANAM, BRITISH, etc when I last crossed the Atlantic in the '90s.

This is my first post on this forum. Glad to be aboard. Hope I have, and will continue to post constructive, interesting and germane entries.

Best regards,

Rodger

 

[Bob Dylan]

Welcome to the club, @ least you get the option of riding Acela, all we have down here is the Texas Eagles and the

Sun has set on San Antonio Ltd! I agree that Amtrak probably charges too much for their first class upgrade but they do it because they can! Those of us who use rail passes cant even ride them without paying dearly for another ticket and we seniors can only ride on the weekend! The Deli sounds good, next time Im in NY Ill try it,theyve got a million of em as some comic used to say!

 

[Guest]

In transit circles, a one-seat ride always attracts more riders than one involving a transfer from one vehicle to another. It's just human nature to prefer not having to change enroute. Of course, sometimes that can't be helped.
People paying big bucks to ride in a first class sleeper would not be happy having to schlep their luggage from train to train. Also, unless you really upgraded the first class accommodations on NEC trains, most people would simply travel by coach, cutting down on revenue. Since Amtrak owns the NEC, there's no probably running as many trains as possible. Truncating LD at Washington makes no sense at all.

I am trying this as a guest; I will register a little later. I just planned and purchased a January trip that runs from Salt Lake to CHI to BOS, and then a few days later, from BOS to NYCPN, then on to NOL, CHI, and then down to ABQ. (Flying on both ends to Las Vegas). Kind of a pricy trip, over three grand, all full size bedrooms, except the BOS to NYC leg. My point here is that the carry on baggage limit for the BOS NYC leg sets my baggage / clothing limits for the entire trip, I didn't want to take the Albany route. I know it will still be a great trip, but additional baggage options would have helped.

 

[AlanB]

I am trying this as a guest; I will register a little later. I just planned and purchased a January trip that runs from Salt Lake to CHI to BOS, and then a few days later, from BOS to NYCPN, then on to NOL, CHI, and then down to ABQ. (Flying on both ends to Las Vegas). Kind of a pricy trip, over three grand, all full size bedrooms, except the BOS to NYC leg. My point here is that the carry on baggage limit for the BOS NYC leg sets my baggage / clothing limits for the entire trip, I didn't want to take the Albany route. I know it will still be a great trip, but additional baggage options would have helped.

If you are spending any time in NYC, then you can check a bag from Boston to NY. It just won't show up until the day after you arrive into NY, as it will come in on the overnight train. If you're not spending any significant time in NY, you could go down to the station in Boston the day before and check a bag then. That way when you do get to NY the next day, the bag would be at baggage claim waiting for you.

 

[guest]

I am trying this as a guest; I will register a little later. I just planned and purchased a January trip that runs from Salt Lake to CHI to BOS, and then a few days later, from BOS to NYCPN, then on to NOL, CHI, and then down to ABQ. (Flying on both ends to Las Vegas). Kind of a pricy trip, over three grand, all full size bedrooms, except the BOS to NYC leg. My point here is that the carry on baggage limit for the BOS NYC leg sets my baggage / clothing limits for the entire trip, I didn't want to take the Albany route. I know it will still be a great trip, but additional baggage options would have helped.

If you are spending any time in NYC, then you can check a bag from Boston to NY. It just won't show up until the day after you arrive into NY, as it will come in on the overnight train. If you're not spending any significant time in NY, you could go down to the station in Boston the day before and check a bag then. That way when you do get to NY the next day, the bag would be at baggage claim waiting for you.

Thanks Alan, great advice!