Resumption of Amtrak service to Canada (2022-2023 Q2)

[JWM]

The only factor driving the decision would be Amtrak's loads from Saint-Lambert to points in NYS, which based on observation can be quite significant.

St. Lambert is four miles from Central Station over the St. Lawrence River on the Victoria bridge. While experience with it is, granted, from the corridor service to Quebec and the "Ocean" to Halifax. I have never noticed a lot of passengers there. Get the customs clearance for both countries in Central Station and speed the train up.

 

[zephyr17]

So per you; the Province of Quebec who funded this change has no say. VIA who does work for Amtrak has no say. Seem to me everyone who is involved in this, has access to the table and there voice can be heard.

Will a service provider have the ability to change something, very unlikely. Will the Province of Quebec who is paying for this, have the ability to make changes? Of course they can, it’s there money.

Money talks. Money makes this change possible. No money, no change.

The ones with the biggest say are probably CBSA, CBP, plus whoever is responsible for funding a Port of Entry facility at Gare Central.

If such a facility becomes available both CBSA and CBP will jump on it. Both agencies really hate onboard inspections and reportedly will not support more of them. That is one of the roadblocks in re-extending the Vermonter to Montreal. Providing it on the Adirondack was pretty much grandfathered in since they did it before COVID, but they'll draw the line on new services.

Neither CBSA nor CBP will support an another Port of Entry facility in St. Lambert in addition to one in Gare Central. Neither will support some kind of onboard inspection for St. Lambert passengers alone.

If Gare Central gets a Port of Entry facility, the train will run sealed in Canada, just as the Cascades does, and the St. Lambert stop will be eliminated. Full stop.

As a precedent, look at the New Westminister and White Rock stops the Pacific International had. Try to go to either one on the Cascades? Thought not.

 

[Bonser]

Why would VIA Rail or the Province of Quebec have any say in whether the train should continue to stop in Saint Lambert or not?

Because they are the ones that give Amtrak the right to ride in Canada.And I seem to recollect that there was reluctance in Quebec about 10 years ago about the Montreal customs in Gare Central because it would entail dropping St Lambert. They might have got over the reservations by now..

 

[zephyr17]

Imagine sitting in station waiting your departure time after you have cleared Customs and Border. That going to be the most frustrating one hour of your entire trip.

I do not have to imagine it. I do it every time I ride the Cascades south out of Vancouver. The one difference is you sit on the train, not in station since the process is check in, proceed through US inspection, board train. You are not permitted to leave the "sealed" platform area once through US inspection. Check in opens about an hour before departure. It is a good idea to arrive at least 45 minutes before, as there can be quite a line up for check in/US inspection. They close check in 15 minutes before departure so the last passengers have time to clear inspection before an on time departure.

I was never frustrated by the procedure. I never saw or heard anyone complaining about it. The Cascades was also far and away the most popular of Amtrak's cross border services, putting both the Adirondack and Maple Leaf in the shade.

Parenthetically, I haven't seen any passengers losing their minds out of frustration on US bound flights from Canada where passengers must wait in an airport after clearing US Preclearance but before boarding their flights.

Personally, I'd rather have run of the train or the US departures side of an airport than be stuck in my seat while customs and immigration officers process the train, as is done on the Adirondack.

IMHO, you are raising a complete non-issue. Thousands of people do it every day at Preclearance facilities throughout Canada, include some at Pacific Central Station. It is routine.

 

[JoshP]

I just got this via email and want to share with you everyone.

 

[Urban Sky]

I believe everything which had to be said about the question of pre-clearance in Montreal has already been said: i.e. if it ever comes, there would only be one facility where passengers clear customs (at Gare Centrale, before boarding or after detraining any cross-border train) and trains would have no further stops in Canada (as they would operate non-stop to/from the border).

If anyone wishes to continue this discussion nonetheless, I would suggest to move it to a different (e.g. new) thread, as the potential future pre-clearance facility in Montreal has nothing to do with the resumption of Amtrak‘s cross-border services, which will be complete in 2 weeks‘ time…

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

I do not have to imagine it. I do it every time I ride the Cascades south out of Vancouver. The one difference is you sit on the train, not in station since the process is check in, proceed through US inspection, board train. You are not permitted to leave the "sealed" platform area once through US inspection. Check in opens about an hour before departure. It is a good idea to arrive at least 45 minutes before, as there can be quite a line up for check in/US inspection. They close check in 15 minutes before departure so the last passengers have time to clear inspection before an on time departure.

Cascade does right, I agree.

I was never frustrated by the procedure. I never saw or heard anyone complaining about it. The Cascades was also far and away the most popular of Amtrak's cross border services, putting both the Adirondack and Maple Leaf in the shade.

Most popular, something about how the Cascades do inspection at the terminal station. Unlike the Adirondack and Maple Leaf that sit at the border station for lengthy time doing inspection.

Parenthetically, I haven't seen any passengers losing their minds out of frustration on US bound flights from Canada where passengers must wait in an airport after clearing US Preclearance but before boarding their flights.

Yes waiting before the flight is not a issue.

Personally, I'd rather have run of the train or the US departures side of an airport than be stuck in my seat while customs and immigration officers process the train, as is done on the Adirondack.

Your making my point. Even though I was talking about the Maple Leaf and it’s two hours mid-trip inspection. As the Adirondack will be moving to the Cascades style of inspection in a few years.

IMHO, you are raising a complete non-issue. Thousands of people do it every day at Preclearance facilities throughout Canada, include some at Pacific Central Station. It is routine.

It’s a issue for the Empire State Passenger Association (ESPA).

So not sure what was the point of your posting in this thread. Getting the inspection done at the terminal station is a preferred way of doing a cross border train. No need to sit on the train for two hours at the border. In the case of the Maple Leaf the ESPA is tracking the time it takes to complete the border check in order to tighten the schedule up. Dropping a hour off the schedule is the goal.

 

[DavidSh]

The Amtrak app reports that the Adirondack arrived in Montreal today 42 minutes early. I would have thought that the border crossing today would have been overloaded with Youtubers, or other hardcore Amtrak fans.

 

[Sidney]

The Amtrak app reports that the Adirondack arrived in Montreal today 42 minutes early. I would have thought that the border crossing today would have been overloaded with Youtubers, or other hardcore Amtrak fans.

I was on that train yesterday. I boarded in Albany and got off in Plattsburgh. Only 40% full. Huge crowd at the Port Henry station carrying welcome back banners and a press conference in Plattsburgh. Among the speakers was one of Amtrak’s exec’s Roger Harris. Free cake and Amtrak hats. I was interviewed at the Albany station by a local TV station. Back on today on the first Southbound.

I originally was going to Montreal, but I thought with the return after three years the border crossing could last several hours. Surprised they got in early. It’s a one hour drive from Plattsburgh to Montreal. Amtrak takes over four hours .

 

[Exvalley]

If you are looking for an excuse to travel on the Adirondack, Montreal will be opening part of its light rail RER line later this year.

https://rem.info/en
As a frequent visitor to Montreal, I have seen a lot of test runs, including cold weather runs on a night that was about -20F.

There is a Courtyard hotel in Brossard that is connected by a walkway to the RER line.

It seems like it has taken forever to build, but the infrastructure looks to be top notch. And you get to cross the St. Lawrence River using the new Champlain bridge.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

The Amtrak app reports that the Adirondack arrived in Montreal today 42 minutes early. I would have thought that the border crossing today would have been overloaded with Youtubers, or other hardcore Amtrak fans.

Nah, it’s been so long they probably thought it was a mirage and didn’t bother trying to take pictures!

Seriously, though, I’m so glad it’s back. That ride along Lake Champlain is beautiful.

 

[Exvalley]

Local (Plattsburgh) news coverage of the Adirondack's return:

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

The news anchor in the video referred to the Adirondack as a commuter train. Sigh.

 

[susanlindsey]

The news anchor in the video referred to the Adirondack as a commuter train. Sigh.

I wondered about that

 

[Devil's Advocate]

The news anchor in the video referred to the Adirondack as a commuter train. Sigh.

At least they didn't call it a "newfangled landplane."

 

[Amtrak25]

He didn't say the conductor was driving the train either.

 

[zephyr17]

Also effective April 3rd, the Maple Leaf's interminable border inspection dwell at Niagara Falls, NY was cut by 27 minutes. It now is 10:38 am to 11:50 am rather than 12:17 pm. 1:12 seems much more reasonable and more in keeping with the time it actually takes to process the passengers. There have been more schedule tightenings, as it is now scheduled into NYP at 9:16 pm rather than 9:55, 39 minutes earlier.

The northbound/westbound dwell times for inspection at Niagara Falls, ON are unchanged (59 minutes weekdays, 54 minutes weekdays).

 

[daybeers]

Isn't the train still overall slower due to the slow trackage between the border and Montreal? It's ridiculous it takes so long from NYC.

 

[Amtrak25]

Isn't the train still overall slower due to the slow trackage between the border and Montreal? It's ridiculous it takes so long from NYC.

I've tracked it a few times with asm.transitdocs in each direction. It seems to take 95 minutes, as in 2019, to go between Lacolle and Central Station. It goes 49 MPH between Cantic and about halfway to St Jean. The rest is mostly 30MPH. There are five nasty 10MPH turns along the route, as well as a double stop at Cantic to throw manual switches back and forth.

All this talk about 10MPH and 25 MPH isn't happening. Either they were nasty rumors, freight-only restrictions, or CN did a quicky track upgrade. It has arrived Montreal an hour early several times, and US Customs has delayed it coming back two times in 7 days.

The train has 3 Amf-2 coaches, not 2 Amf-1 + 2 Amf-2.

 

[DavidSh]

Isn't the train still overall slower due to the slow trackage between the border and Montreal? It's ridiculous it takes so long from NYC.

You mean the Adirondack? (Because the previous message was about the Maple Leaf, to Toronto.) Again, today, it is reported to be arriving an hour early. Somebody should compare the pre-Covid scheduled time with the actual (as opposed to scheduled) post-Covid times.

 

[zephyr17]

Isn't the train still overall slower due to the slow trackage between the border and Montreal? It's ridiculous it takes so long from NYC.

Well the Maple Leaf is now faster than it was pre-COVID (it came back on pretty much the pre-COVID schedule), but it goes to Toronto after crossing the border at Niagara Falls, not Montreal. The CN Grimsby Sub was and is in fairly good shape

The Adirondack is slower. 10:56 northbound before COVID, 11:36 now. 10:30 southbound pre-COVID, 11:05 now.

Since resuming on 4/3-4/4, ASMAD shows the Adirondack was late 3 times southbound, by as much as 1:25, and early twice (10 and 11 minutes). Northbound it has been consistently early, by as much as 1:08. However, there is a big pad northbound between Rouses Point and Montreal, 3:47 northbound, 3:05 southbound, inclusive of customs.

 

[xzperu42]

Took the Adirondack from NYP to Montreal yesterday. The special checkpoint was near track 5 and the entrance to the Lounge. I checked in on arrival (presented passport and ticket) and received a luggage tag For my carry on. Just took a few moments, one can debate the merits, but only a minor annoyance. used a lounge coupon and enjoyed the lounge.

Train boarded only about 10 min before departure. Train sold out. Montreal passengers seated in last of 4 cars (Amfleet II with curtains and leg rests). Train left a few minutes late, but for the most part we were within a few minutes of schedule all the way to the border. Train crew all pleasant and helped passengers with luggage, etc. At Albany at least 1/2 the train got off, so I moved to another car. I asked crew and they gave me no hassle.

We only had one very brief non station stop north of Saratoga Springs. I believe it was to pass a freight. We met the southbound Adirondack with only a slowdown on the siding, did not stop. Also passed the Southbound VT train holding where it joins the line.

For the entire trip south of the border the train was traveling at a speed that seemed appropriate for the tracks. Good ride and the track seemed to be in very good condition all the way to the border. The run along the lake truly is great scenery. Enjoyed the entire trip all the way to the border.

Crept and crawled across the border and even at 1 MPH were bouncing around.

I did not time it, but the border crossing was at least an hour. This was long and tedious. Canadian border officers very thorough and deliberate. One passenger seated a few rows behind me was taken off the train. We also had a quick visit from US agents before crossing into Canada.

The first mile or so into Canada was painfully slow, but then it sped up to perhaps 45 (guess) until we hit the first rail junction. Stopped and then preceded slower for a long time… not painfully slow, but still not fast… 35mph I’ll guess

for the most part we kept moving. Once we hit the main line at a yard near Montreal the train sped up considerably for a few minutes. The final approach across the river was slow.

I rode the train pre Covid with my wife and to be honest it felt faster to me yesterday in Canada than it did when I rode it before.

We arrived a little early in Montreal (12 min according to Amtrak). Total travel time in Canada was a little less than 2 hours.

 

[BlackDiamond]

Thanks for the report. Sounds like a good trip.

 

[pennyk]

To continue the discussion of the resumption of Amtrak service to Canada, please post your comments in the "current" thread on that topic:

https://www.amtraktrains.com/thread...service-to-canada-2023-q3.85483/#post-1011912
Thank you for your cooperation and participation.