Revival of Night Owl/Twilight Shoreliner

[Anderson]

I don't think the Adirondack has many leg rest coaches anymore. I believe most or all of them went to the long distance trains, some to make up the extra consist required for the Floridian. They should never have been on a medium-distance train like the Adirondack in the first place.

Ehh...the issue is that with the Adirondack, in particular, a lot of passengers were (are?) taking the train the whole distance, which is around 12 hours...and there was no Business Class available.

Now, what the train probably needs is a full car of Amclub seats (the 2-1 ones on 66/67 and so on) at a premium, but the memory of occasionally doing that trip in Regional Coach is not one that I treasure, and the prospect of doing it in whatever seats Siemens dumps on everyone isn't one that thrills me, either.

 

[Harmon Shay]

I've wondered why they don't have an Amfleet business club-dinette on the Adirondack, but at the slow rate Amtrak and the Midwest Consortium is getting the new Venture cafes into service, and given that probably three Amfleet club-dinettes will be needed for New Orleans (two of the three remaining Horizons in Chicago recently went to Seattle), it'll probably be the end of next year before they could even consider it. To me, Amtrak has always hat an irrational fixation on table cars. Seems like it's always long on table cars and short on club-dinettes.

 

[Stevenz]

thoughtless bureaucracy.

Redundant and repetitive.

 

[Amtrak25]

I've wondered why they don't have an Amfleet business club-dinette on the Adirondack, but at the slow rate Amtrak and the Midwest Consortium is getting the new Venture cafes into service, and given that probably three Amfleet club-dinettes will be needed for New Orleans (two of the three remaining Horizons in Chicago recently went to Seattle), it'll probably be the end of next year before they could even consider it. To me, Amtrak has always hat an irrational fixation on table cars. Seems like it's always long on table cars and short on club-dinettes.

Adirondack - Customs wants the entire cafe car emptied for interviews, therefore Business Class could not be reserved north of Rouses Pt, which defeats its purpose since 80% of the passengers north of Saratoga Springs are headed for Montreal.

The Airo train sets for the Empire Corridor are nothing to look forward to with Siemens' excuses for seats that are hard, narrow, and don't recline, no popular table car, especially on that route, no chance of a needed cut coach at Albany, and Charger locos that are junk as far as I am concerned.

 

[MARC Rider]

They should never have been on a medium-distance train like the Adirondack in the first place.

Uh, that's a 12 hour ride, same as the Palmetto. Same for the Maple Leaf, which also had Amfleet 2 coaches. When they introduce the Airos, coach on the Maple Leaf, Adirondack, Palmetto and Pennsylvanian is going to be a bit of a downgrade, unless Amtrak decides to install a more generous seat pitch, like VIA has in the LRC coaches.

 

[Septa9739]

That's dubious (the initial cutting of the sleeper was when the Cardinal went single-level, FWIW), but the bigger issue is that 66/67 are no longer a pair going into NPN. The credit/blame for this goes to the second Roanoke train, which as far as I can tell needed one of those trains (though I honestly don't know why they didn't just flip the pair), but the result is that they'd need three or four cars* plus a spare, and on two of the runs the train would terminate at NYP.

The story I heard was that NPN was given the choice and chose to keep the southbound and send 66 to RNK.

Frankly, I think it is exceptionally possible that the sleepers return to 65-67 after the completion of the Hell’s Gate project. At least WAS-BOS.

As to Virginia funding service into their Commonwealth. I don’t see why not, besides they don’t want to. Sleeper service generates high yields and is popular. A sleeper train does not necessitate formal dining service, which is undeniably costly. As the Northeast creeps further south, I think Richmond or Charlottesville to the Northeast could be lucrative overnight markets. This is a little off topic, but I think an overnight Carolinian would be massively successful, leaving the Northeast between 19:00 and 23:00, departing Raleigh around 6:30, arriving Charlotte around 9:30. There would be no need for a costly diner, just could hard revenue potential. The problem for anything of that scale is equipment.

 

[Anderson]

The story I heard was that NPN was given the choice and chose to keep the southbound and send 66 to RNK.

Frankly, I think it is exceptionally possible that the sleepers return to 65-67 after the completion of the Hell’s Gate project. At least WAS-BOS.

As to Virginia funding service into their Commonwealth. I don’t see why not, besides they don’t want to. Sleeper service generates high yields and is popular. A sleeper train does not necessitate formal dining service, which is undeniably costly. As the Northeast creeps further south, I think Richmond or Charlottesville to the Northeast could be lucrative overnight markets. This is a little off topic, but I think an overnight Carolinian would be massively successful, leaving the Northeast between 19:00 and 23:00, departing Raleigh around 6:30, arriving Charlotte around 9:30. There would be no need for a costly diner, just could hard revenue potential. The problem for anything of that scale is equipment.

Yeah. Honestly, if you throw in an included breakfast (doesn't have to be fancy - a pastry and coffee/tea with optional microwaved bacon/sausage would be fine) and gave an F&B credit in the cafe for the evening, that would cover this.

 

[jiml]

Yeah. Honestly, if you throw in an included breakfast (doesn't have to be fancy - a pastry and coffee/tea

Exactly what they did on the former Executive Sleeper between Washington and NY Penn, and a model still used by most Nightjet services in Europe.

 

[Amtrak25]

Do note that there are no sleeper cars (or baggage car) to be in Airo train sets, some variation of which will take over the the former Night Owl, and I think Amtrak just assume we forget they ever had both, hence their inexcusable withdrawal, unless Amtrak is pressured to run LD equipment on it.

God knows what type of seating Siemens will install in them. I have only ridden the VIA Rail version. Such seats are good for at most 3 hours, and plan on taking a hot shower that night to loosen back muscles because the lower half of the seat back is a glorified ironing board. The so-called 1st class seating is 2+1, has each seat is just as narrow as coach, even though they could have made them 33% wider without sacrificing aisle space. The seat bottom slides out a whole notch, about 2" at most. How luxurious.

As long as Amtrak is of Corridor and and Bus mentality, or think the European way is so much better so spoiled Americans need to get used to it, this is the way it will be.

 

[Tom C]

I don't think the Adirondack has many leg rest coaches anymore. I believe most or all of them went to the long distance trains, some to make up the extra consist required for the Floridian. They should never have been on a medium-distance train like the Adirondack in the first place.

I believe you are correct and that the Adirondack is all Amfleet 1 now.

 

[MARC Rider]

I believe you are correct and that the Adirondack is all Amfleet 1 now.

There was at least one Amfleet 2 coach on the Adirondack when I rode it just 3 months ago.

 

[Tom C]

There was at least one Amfleet 2 coach on the Adirondack when I rode it just 3 months ago.

I believe this was a fall change. As mentioned they needed additional coaches to build a set for the Floridian. They also recently added a fourth coach to the Meteor so that was likely one of the places the coaches came from.