RFP released for 35 Next Gen Locomotives

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It's been finalized, and it seems that EMD has lost the fight for now. They've also named the locomotive... "Charger." What do you think?
The Charger? Pretty bleh name IMHO. In an age where we all have multiple chargers for all the electronic gadgets, sounds like a wall socket charger.
That the Notice To Proceed (NTP) has been granted is an important step. There is often a long gap between the official contract award and the formal NTP as the managers, accountants and auditors hammer out the details of the contract. The contract negotiation process and NTP appears to have been expedited. Now we will see if Caterpillar/EMD are able to stall the contract work in court.
'Charger' has a powerful ring to it.

We hear armies struggling for victory commanding their troops to "Charge!!", and this is what Amtrak must do. Charge, and start taking control and responsibility.

If I were Joe B., I would go similar to the lifespan of the F40 and Genesis patterns, and add on 50 Charger locomotives now, then once and if they prove well, go with the other 175. Reasoning for an initial Amtrak order of 50 is that if the states have faith in this product (and who can't with Siemens), so can the NRPC.
 
The problem of finding the money does not vaporize simply because the states have chosen something though.
Amtrak's FY2015 appropriations request which was posted today provides info on their new proposed funding approach that could provide the capital funds over time to pay for new locomotives and rolling stock for the LD trains. Mainly by splitting the federal grants into 3 categories: NEC, state support and LD with $295 million in FY15 for capital grants for the LD trains. Keep it at the circa $280 million a year level as shown in the request and Amtrak can buy the new locomotives in incremental batches. I should start a thread on the new FY2015 funding request, but I don't know if I want to start a thread that is likely to get quite heated. ;)
 
Anyway, if the new locomotives are to be called Chargers and they stick to the convention of using the engine horsepower rating in the name, would Amtrak call them the American Cities Charger - 44 or ACC-44? Hmm, no, that could confuse people to think the new locomotives are associated with the Atlantic Coast Conference. :p

ok, so something something C-44? Ideas?
 
So remind me again, which five states are officially involved in the procurement that IDOT is managing? Illinois, Michigan, California and ....?
Missouri and Washington state. The EMD protest letter was also copied to Iowa DOT although I expect Iowa DOT is a passive observer at this point since the Iowa governor and Iowa House leadership have all but killed their portion of the Chicago-Quad Cities-Iowa City corridor project.
 
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New Haven, CT, is a better example, because Amtrak controls the entire railroad on both sides (so, minimal schedule padding needed). In that case, the total dwell is only 10-12 minutes, which is 8-10 minutes longer than trains that run through to/from Boston.
The states have spent hundreds of millions to cut 10-12 minutes off of schedules.

A single dual-mode could cut roughly 20 minutes off the schedule of #147 (to use the extreme example, which has to change engines twice during its run). And it doesn't cost hundreds of millions.

It's obviously worth it, maybe not to run dual-modes on *all* trains which run through, but certainly to run them on *some*. It would be different if Amtrak had no dual-mode fleet at all, but Amtrak has to have a dual-mode fleet anyway, and expansion of its role is appropriate.
 
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Ok, I'm lost, when did we lose 3 locomotives for 32 instead of 35?
The variable is Washington state DOT which will purchase between 5 to 8 locomotives. So they broke the bid into a base of 32 locomotives with a fixed price option of 3 locomotives for WSDOT. All 32 to 35 locomotives are to be delivered by June, 2017 so I figure there is at least some stimulus funds in the option for 3 WSDOT locomotives.
Skimming some of the RFP documents, the options for up to 225 additional locomotives are priced through a formula which was not part of the technical and price evaluation. The RFP documents are still available on the IL DOT Multi-State Locomotive Procurement website, but the site may get taken down at some point with the contract award and NTP. Those interested in the details may want to download and save the relevant documents for future reference. Some of the questions asked by the prospective offerors in the question response Addendums are interesting. Who wanted a 30 day extension on submitting the bid to get corporate approval (extension was not granted)?
 
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Found the CalTrans press release on the Siemens contract award, which of course, notes that the locomotives will be built in Sacramento. The CalTrans release does not add that much info, but it does a have a link to the Master Agreement for the contract (8 page PDF) which is skimpy because it is missing the exhibit attachment documents.

The agreement is to last 7 years but it can be extended to 10 years. So that is the window for exercising the options under the contract. Also, the requirement is in the Master Agreement that a consist of 2 locomotives and 8 bi-level cars on level, tangent track shall sustain 125 mph speed at the conditions set forth in the PRIIA spec. So Siemens has signed up to meet that requirement. Presumably in there as a counter to the expected EMD/Caterpillar protest.
 
Found the CalTrans press release on the Siemens contract award, which of course, notes that the locomotives will be built in Sacramento. The CalTrans release does not add that much info, but it does a have a link to the Master Agreement for the contract (8 page PDF) which is skimpy because it is missing the exhibit attachment documents.

The agreement is to last 7 years but it can be extended to 10 years. So that is the window for exercising the options under the contract. Also, the requirement is in the Master Agreement that a consist of 2 locomotives and 8 bi-level cars on level, tangent track shall sustain 125 mph speed at the conditions set forth in the PRIIA spec. So Siemens has signed up to meet that requirement. Presumably in there as a counter to the expected EMD/Caterpillar protest.
Not an "expected" protest. EMD Caterpillar filed an appeal March 17 with the Illinois Procurement Policy Review Board and the Cook County, Ill., Chancery Court.
 
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Not an "expected" protest. EMD Caterpillar filed an appeal March 17 with the Illinois Procurement Policy Review Board and the Cook County, Ill., Chancery Court.
Well, to be picky, the signatures on the Master Agreement are dated from March 8 to March 13, so if the EMD protest appeal was filed on March 17, the agreement was ahead of the "expected" appeal.
 
Not an "expected" protest. EMD Caterpillar filed an appeal March 17 with the Illinois Procurement Policy Review Board and the Cook County, Ill., Chancery Court.
Well, to be picky, the signatures on the Master Agreement are dated from March 8 to March 13, so if the EMD protest appeal was filed on March 17, the agreement was ahead of the "expected" appeal.
The formal appeal, which I am sure both sides expected, occurs after the award of the contract. Until a contract is executed, there is no actionable harm as a basis for remedial action.

EMD originally asked IDOT for reconsideration prior to the final award. That a procedural step. I don't think they expected a favorable outcome from IDOT. After all, IDOT made the original determination. If they reversed on reconsideration, then they would have been saying they were wrong in the first place, and no government agency likes doing that.

Now that IDOT has awarded the contract and issued a notice to proceed, EMD has grounds to go to the state procurement board (which oversees all state contracts) and to the courts to argue that the bid analysis and award violated the terms of the procurement documents. Assuming EMD wants to pursue this down the line, they can ask for an injunction to halt work while the courts hear the arguments.

I've read the EMD argument and the procurement specification, and on the surface I think EMD has a persuasive case. The procurement specification required the use of a specific methodology for determining the HP required to meet the specified performance, including the parameters to be used in that methodology (weight, drag area, etc.). This was worded as a firm requirement and did not include "or approved equal" or similar wording that would permit use of another method. Using that methodology, EMD determined the required HP and designed the locomotive accordingly.

Siemens used a different methodology than the one in the spec and bid a lower HP locomotive. By accepting the EMD bid as compliant, IDOT accepted Siemens use of that alternate methodology. EMD is arguing that, when the required methodology is applied to the Siemens locomotive, it does not meet spec. They argue that IDOT, by accepting the Siemens methodology in the bid analysis, effectively changed the terms of the procurement specification after the fact: that had EMD been permitted to use the same methodology, they could have submitted a lower HP locomotive at a lower price, but were not afforded that opportunity. It's an uneven playing field argument.

Back before I became a burden on society (retired), one of my areas was preparation of procurement specifications and technical review of bids. A fundamental requirement of bid and procurement is that all bidders must be afforded the same opportunity to bid. To allow one bidder to change a requirement in the specification without notifying and permitting all bidders to make the same change is just the sort of thing that gets contracts tossed out by the courts. This is especially true with public sector bidding.

Unless there are some weasel words buried somewhere in the spec that I did not see (possible), or unless EMD was afforded an opportunity to rebid (maybe), the EMD appeal will be interesting to follow.
 
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Just a question, but when Amtrak decides to get in on buying new locomotives, would they be able to just jump on this, or will they have to start their own bidding process, giving EMD another shot, and possibly allowing GE to bid something? I'm surprised in the first place that GE didn't bid - possibly waiting for Amtrak, or already talking to Amtrak? It would be interesting to see what GE has to bid - possibly a Genesis with GEVO internals?
 
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Just a question, but when Amtrak decides to get in on buying new locomotives, would they be able to just jump on this, or will they have to start their own bidding process, giving EMD another shot, and possibly allowing GE to bid something? I'm surprised in the first place that GE didn't bid - possibly waiting for Amtrak, or already talking to Amtrak? It would be interesting to see what GE has to bid - possibly a Genesis with GEVO internals?
There was an option included for a long distance version, shouldn't be any need to rebid.
 
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Just a question, but when Amtrak decides to get in on buying new locomotives, would they be able to just jump on this, or will they have to start their own bidding process, giving EMD another shot, and possibly allowing GE to bid something? I'm surprised in the first place that GE didn't bid - possibly waiting for Amtrak, or already talking to Amtrak? It would be interesting to see what GE has to bid - possibly a Genesis with GEVO internals?
There are reliable rumors that GE has no intention of entering the passenger diesel market on its own. It will likely play it in collaboration with MPI, as it did in this RFP possibly. MPI did put in a bid and it is believed to have been based on the HSP46 that they are delivering to MBTA which uses a GE Prime Mover, though they probably had to find a new body meeting the height restrictions in this RFP.

So, no AFAIK they are not having any secret chats with Amtrak about any such. So if anyone is dreaming of a Genesis II they will most likely be disappointed.
 
These new locomotives aren't going to be replacing the P42's right?

Amtrak172
 
These new locomotives aren't going to be replacing the P42's right?

Amtrak172

They will be displacing P42s on the Midwest and California Corridor trains. But those P42s will be deployed in other parts of the Amtrak network.
Correct, However part of the order is the option for ordering long distance versions to replace the P42s used on the long distance trains. But that isn't going even really be discussed for a number of years.

peter
 
These new locomotives aren't going to be replacing the P42's right?

Amtrak172

They will be displacing P42s on the Midwest and California Corridor trains. But those P42s will be deployed in other parts of the Amtrak network.
Correct, However part of the order is the option for ordering long distance versions to replace the P42s used on the long distance trains. But that isn't going even really be discussed for a number of years.

peter
Good point Peter! I suppose we'll discuss that seriously when it is funded. :)
 
They argue that IDOT, by accepting the Siemens methodology in the bid analysis, effectively changed the terms of the procurement specification after the fact: that had EMD been permitted to use the same methodology, they could have submitted a lower HP locomotive at a lower price, but were not afforded that opportunity. It's an uneven playing field argument.
I don't know Illinois law very well, but based on what I've read about bidding in Illinois in the past, I'm pretty sure that it's one of the states where exigent circumstances, emergency, etc., allows all of that "even playing field" stuff to be thrown out the window. And you can bet that the governor of Illinois will not tolerate messing with his schedule; he cares about this getting done. If he loses office then EMD might have a chance at getting the contract, otherwise they have no chance whatsoever.
 
They argue that IDOT, by accepting the Siemens methodology in the bid analysis, effectively changed the terms of the procurement specification after the fact: that had EMD been permitted to use the same methodology, they could have submitted a lower HP locomotive at a lower price, but were not afforded that opportunity. It's an uneven playing field argument.
I don't know Illinois law very well, but based on what I've read about bidding in Illinois in the past, I'm pretty sure that it's one of the states where exigent circumstances, emergency, etc., allows all of that "even playing field" stuff to be thrown out the window. And you can bet that the governor of Illinois will not tolerate messing with his schedule; he cares about this getting done. If he loses office then EMD might have a chance at getting the contract, otherwise they have no chance whatsoever.
Since EMD is based in Illinois, you would think that would give it leg up on the matter, but it didn't. Perhaps Siemens just submitted a better bid. EMD should submit a better bid next time.
 
Two things:

1; I don't recall seeing the formal IDOT response to the initial protest shared here, but my memory has been known to be shoddy at times. Anyway, here it is: http://www2.illinois.gov/cpo/dot/Documents/Departments%20Recommendation%20on%20EMD's%20Protest.pdf

Can anyone say, "Apply ice pack to the burn here"?

2; This will eventually warrant a separate thread, but for now I'll start it here, it seems like Amtrak is pursuing a separate contract for 15 tier IV compliant diesel locomotives, perhaps to replace P32-8WHs: http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/mechanical/locomotives/amtrak-rfi-ponders-tier-4-locomotive-order.html?channel=35

It will be interesting to see where this goes.
 
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