I have noticed that after covid, the rocky mountaineer consist appears to be quite different. The bi level domes are not all in the middle of the Consists. I'm curious as to why this is (if anyone happens to know anything)
Rocky Mountaineer discussion
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Maybe best this question referred to the RockyMountaineer folks --- but it may have something to do with access between cars.
Having a bi-level car attached to a single level car presents problems of going between cars.
The US operation of the RockyMountaineer does not use the bi-level dome cars (tunnel restrictions).
The RM bi-level cars are even higher in height than the Amtrak Superliner.
Another possibility of hooking two bi-level cars together is only using the galley of one of the cars to serve both.
It could all be due to dedicated Tour Groups having totally booked out a car(s)
Gold leaf (bi-level) passengers may be permitted full run of the train - where as Silver Leaf maybe restricted to just the single level cars.
The route of travel may have something to do with the consist - there are 3 or more different itineraries.
Reaching the end of trip - the train maybe reversed (WYEd) - but if not the locomotives can be operated either direction -
the cars and the seating may have something to do with this - - -
Just some of the possibilities - - -
The Amtrak Superliner cars have a walk thru on the upper level between cars - exception the "T" dorm car at the forward end has
lower level access to the adjacent baggage car
Having a bi-level car attached to a single level car presents problems of going between cars.
The US operation of the RockyMountaineer does not use the bi-level dome cars (tunnel restrictions).
The RM bi-level cars are even higher in height than the Amtrak Superliner.
Another possibility of hooking two bi-level cars together is only using the galley of one of the cars to serve both.
It could all be due to dedicated Tour Groups having totally booked out a car(s)
Gold leaf (bi-level) passengers may be permitted full run of the train - where as Silver Leaf maybe restricted to just the single level cars.
The route of travel may have something to do with the consist - there are 3 or more different itineraries.
Reaching the end of trip - the train maybe reversed (WYEd) - but if not the locomotives can be operated either direction -
the cars and the seating may have something to do with this - - -
Just some of the possibilities - - -
The Amtrak Superliner cars have a walk thru on the upper level between cars - exception the "T" dorm car at the forward end has
lower level access to the adjacent baggage car
Fenu S
Train Attendant
I highly doubt it's for this reason but a benefit would be being able to see out of the bi-level cars front or back windows. Unlike superliners, they have windows at the front and back on the second floor. I wonder how much you can see out them if there is another bi-level car directly attached behind/in front?
crescent-zephyr
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More than I expected, going around curves it definitely allows some views of the train.
Rocky Mountaineer Bilevel cars have low level doors.
https://www.stadlerrail.com/media/pdf/wrm0816e.pdf
These railcars are true Bilevel cars.
https://www.stadlerrail.com/media/pdf/wrm0816e.pdf
These railcars are true Bilevel cars.
The Rocky Mountaineer is a glorified coach trip. In Silver Leaf service there's no lounge car or diner, you get served meals and drinks at your seat. I've also heard reports, unverified, that you at are restricted to your assigned car, no wandering the train.
It strikes me as vastly overpriced for what it is, worse IMHO than either Amtrak or VIA.
While I'd like to ride some of what are now its routes again, like Cheakamus Canyon on the former BC Rail or Kicking Horse Pass on the CP, I won't because of their prices.
VIA's Prestige is much more my idea of a luxury rail experience than the Rocky Mountaineer's coach seats (although I won't pay for that, either. Sleeper Plus is fine by me).
I can't really see "high profile people" riding in open seating coaches, which is all the Rocky Mountaineer offers in any of their classes.
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No doubt the Rocky Mountaineer is very expensive. However, the cost of their journeys does include overnights at premium hotels or motels. SilverLeaf service, during the summer months, is somewhere in the $ 2000 range, if I recall, for Vancouver to Banff or to Jasper. GoldLeaf is more, but the dome cars were great with the dining area below. I think the VIA Prestige class, for Toronto to Vancouver, is somewhere around $ 5700 Canadian.
I have always wondered if the RM could have an all-Pullman train. Luxury bedroom compartments and pleasure dome lounges, with gourmet diners such as the Turquoise Room on the old Super Chief. No doubt very expensive, but the Mountaineer wouldn't need to include lodging in the package, which would keep the cost down.
I took a BC Rail excursion train many years ago. I can't remember much about the journey, other than travelling through the town of Squamish which I thought interesting.
RM made a concerted behind the scenes lobbying effort to take over the Canadian a few years ago. A lot of people, including many VIA OBS crewmembers, were convinced they'd succeed (and were not happy about it). Happily, it didn't pan out and they appear to have stopped trying.
VIA's Prestige really is quite close to what you're describing. Large, well appointed staterooms, concierge service, free premium liquor, exclusive access to the Park Car (dome) during most of the day in peak season. Very high quality meals (although they share the diner with the Sleeper Plus hoi polloi).
I think Prestige is closer to $7K CAD per person Vancouver-Toronto now. While I would not pay it, I do think the product is there. Also, it is nearly 5 days onboard versus 2 days in a coach seat and a couple nights in the equivalent of a Holiday Inn (for Silver Leaf).
As to premium hotels, it doesn't sound like you've ever been to Kamloops. Even RM admits as much.
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Maybe this should split off to a new thread about how "deluxe" the Ricky Mountaineer really is, but I just wanted to mention that I recently priced the Canadian, and Prestige Class, Toronto to Vancouver, is not C$5,700, it's more like C$11=13,000 (depending on date). That ended my interest in Prestige class, as a cabin for one in Sleeper Plus at ~C$2,200 (about US$1,600) seemed to be perfectly fine.
That ~$13K CAD is for 2 people.
VIA no longer uses the traditional rail fare + accommodation charge method Amtrak still uses. All fares are per person.
Sleeper Plus has a 50% single supplement to occupy a Cabin for 2 (Double Bedroom or Compartment). So had you wanted a Cabin for 2, it would have been ~$3300 CAD.
Prestige has a 100% single supplement. So that ~$13K CAD is for one or two passengers.
Just one more thing keeping me out of Prestige, not that it interests me. Off season in a Sleeper Plus roomette with full access to the Park Car and the same meals suits me just fine.
That would go against their business model of all-daylight sightseeing, wouldn’t it?
On the Canadian, you might miss from 8-15 hours of scenery, depending on the season overnight…
And whether the beast is anywhere close to on time
We've looked into a trip on that train. It must be asked what does the Rocky Mountaineer offer at twice the cost of the Amtrak California Zephyr? It has newer, nicer equipment but its just a day trip from Denver to Moab. Big deal!
Does the CZ go to Moab??
jis
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One is a tourist cruise train and the other is a cross country transportation provider. It is very likely that the service and food on the Rocky Mountaineer and the features of the rolling stock are more suited towards a cruise like tourist operation. Doesn't the trip to Moab also include a bus trip to the Arches National Park?
Maybe actually you'll like it better than the Amtrak LD service about which everyone complains incessantly?
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Ziv
Conductor
I have never seen photos of the Rocky Mountaineer so that open air platform looks VERY cool, no pun intended! Getting photos of the train as you go around corners would be a great extra.
The paint job looks great with the stripes matched up, pity that it sounds like the cars are not in their intended order at times.
jis
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Incidentally, apparently the Rocky Mountaineer that operates in the US is a single level train and has none of the fancy bilevel stuff present in the Canadian Rocky Mountaineer.
pi314
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I have taken the Rocky Mountaineer from Vancouver to Banff back in 2019. I took the Gold Leaf Service which was $1600.00, I took the trip in October which was less expensive than the summer fare. The Rocky Mountaineer lets you make monthly payments towards the total fare. The food was outstanding, you had unlimited non alcoholic and alcoholic drinks throughout the trip which was a part of the fare. You also had unlimited snacks throughout the day.The scenery was was better than the California Zephyr and that’s saying a lot. I flew to Vancouver to catch the train and flew home from Calgary. If it’s something you’re thinking about doing I recommend it. I believe it’s 5 months you have to make payments toward your trip.The airfare to Vancouver and home from Calgary was pretty reasonable.
I am wondering what the difference traveling by the RM verses driving by car from Banff to Jasper?
I drove Canadian national Parkway from Banff (which was way too touristy for me) but the drive by car from Banff to Jasper was such a fabulous experience for me where I was continuously in a valley where is snow covered mountains, close to me on both the right side and the left side and in front of me.
I drove it straight but stopping for many vistas, however, my cousin who is also of retirement age, also did the same trip on the parkway Banff to Jasper it with her husband and selected several campsites to utilize overnight, making it an experience that was stretched over several days whereas my driving time was more like five or six hours having stopped at various vistas.
The final surprise of beauty was when I arrived in Jasper … the Rocky Mountaineer had just arrived, and passengers were being bus or walking to their hotel for the night. I was somewhat dumbfounded, because I knew about this and here I am in front of it without having spent a dime on the trip.
It must’ve been fabulous traveling by train. But a passenger could’ve very easily walked a fairly short distance on backpack and rolled out a tent and sleeping bag for a unbelievable night in Jasper like my cousin.
It cost $16 CAD (day pass) for the day of driving on the Canadian Parkway - simply display your receipt on your dashboard. When I arrived in Jasper and saw the rocky mountaineer, I figured it doesn’t get better than this, so I stopped off at a 7-Eleven instead of an eatery and grabbed a bite and headed back to The Canadian Parkway and saw a fabulous sunset that lasted for more than my moneys worth.
My $16 day pass became a two for one!
Sunset south of Jasper
I drove Canadian national Parkway from Banff (which was way too touristy for me) but the drive by car from Banff to Jasper was such a fabulous experience for me where I was continuously in a valley where is snow covered mountains, close to me on both the right side and the left side and in front of me.
I drove it straight but stopping for many vistas, however, my cousin who is also of retirement age, also did the same trip on the parkway Banff to Jasper it with her husband and selected several campsites to utilize overnight, making it an experience that was stretched over several days whereas my driving time was more like five or six hours having stopped at various vistas.
The final surprise of beauty was when I arrived in Jasper … the Rocky Mountaineer had just arrived, and passengers were being bus or walking to their hotel for the night. I was somewhat dumbfounded, because I knew about this and here I am in front of it without having spent a dime on the trip.
It must’ve been fabulous traveling by train. But a passenger could’ve very easily walked a fairly short distance on backpack and rolled out a tent and sleeping bag for a unbelievable night in Jasper like my cousin.
It cost $16 CAD (day pass) for the day of driving on the Canadian Parkway - simply display your receipt on your dashboard. When I arrived in Jasper and saw the rocky mountaineer, I figured it doesn’t get better than this, so I stopped off at a 7-Eleven instead of an eatery and grabbed a bite and headed back to The Canadian Parkway and saw a fabulous sunset that lasted for more than my moneys worth.
My $16 day pass became a two for one!
Sunset south of Jasper
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That's nice, but for me it would be a 3-4 day drive from the East Coast with the added costs of gas and motels and meals, or I'd have to fly to Edmonton or Calgary and pay for the airfare and rental car, plus gas and motels and meals. That's a lot of driving.
A very conservative estimate. Even cutting across the US from south-central Ontario takes that long to Calgary, so probably a day longer from the US East Coast with some fairly intense driving. Not the ideal start (or finish) to a leisure vacation.
Sorry about that - I took Amtrak BOS to CHI then on the EB I got off in Spokane WA - then rented a car and drove to Jasper AB, on the way staying over in Radium Hot Springs. The drive from Spokane to Banff was very nice but really unbelievable from Banff to Jasper.
I could’ve been under the AMTRAK luggage weight, and carried camping gear on the train. Most of the campsites at the park from Banff to Jasper appeared full - I assume by reservation.
I made an Amtrak loop on that trip. – BOS to CHI to SPK (Spokane) to PDX to LAX to CHI to WAS to BOS.
I'll never give a penny to Rocky Mountaineer since they stiffed almost all their customers at the beginning of covid. I don't remember the exact details, but apparently instead of giving refunds they just sent people vouchers good for a year, and wished them luck. I don't know if they extended the vouchers when the pandemic continued on. They said IIRC that they simply didn't have the funds to issue refunds.
To me, if you buy a service, and they don't deliver the service, you should get your money back. They never declared bankruptcy, they just said Canadian law allowed them to hold your money forever.
To me, if you buy a service, and they don't deliver the service, you should get your money back. They never declared bankruptcy, they just said Canadian law allowed them to hold your money forever.
