Route Timetable PDFs returning? (2021-2022)

[Amtrak25]

I am an IT person for 40 years, an application programmer with older IBM mainframe and SAS technology, but I don't know a thing about HTML or Java. But I do know they can probably hire a college IT student intern for $25/hour and get it done very quickly. Most schedules are pretty static, unlike say the LIRR's. They simply don't care. Their mentality is the airlines don't do it, most intercity buses, whether legacy or internet don't do it (like they are a success story), so why should we when they are for just dinosaurs and railfans.

 

[neroden]

Every railroad in the world provides timetables, which means their attitude amounts to "we are morons".

 

[Amtrak25]

Well not VIA Rail anymore either, not even pdf. Monkey see-monkey do. They also love being paperless.

 

[John Bredin]

Well not VIA Rail anymore either, not even pdf. Monkey see-monkey do. They also love being paperless.

Via's website has timetables, though as you say not pdf ones. They're still timetables in that they show all the trains on a given route or service in columns where you can see at a glance which trains stop where and when.

 

[acelafan]

That is correct. Lot of other stuff going on so I haven't made progress in a couple of weeks. (More medical problems to deal with for my partner, and that's not easy with the pandemic still raging, since she *got infected at a medical office* in December, so we're being ultra-paranoid -- getting the fourth dose, going off the immune suppressants, scheduling the appointments about 2 weeks after dose #4, wearing even better-fitting N95s than she wore last time...)

I'd say I'm three to five full days' work away from having a program which produces a pretty nice HTML timetable from GTFS data (looking similar to the ones from the classic timetable); it uses a little manual intervention in the form of templates (which can be prepped in a spreadsheet program as CSV) for the more complicated timetables ( while the templates can be autogenerated for the simple cases). I am quite sure I've got the architecture right so that I can generate nearly all the different styles of timetables which were used in prior Amtrak timetables. A few persnickety items will take longer.

The same program should be able to put it out in a raw CSV format if people want to present it differently, and the HTML should be suitable to feed through an HTML-to-PDF translater. If I get it finished I'll put it at the service of Rail Passengers Assocation and we should be able to pump out a full set of timetables with a script.

Manual work updating the applicable template would be required when train service actually changes significantly (new train numbers, cancelled train numbers, stations added or removed), but should be on the order of one minute's work -- and we all know that sort of change doesn't happen that often.

Changes in exactly when trains arrive should just be a matter of running "make new timetable", push a button, get a timetable. The heavy manual effort which was error-prone was copying the times into the spreadsheet, and I have it from inside Amtrak that they did not like the fact that occasionally copying errors crept in. So I figured I'd solve that problem.

I still need Amtrak to release up-to-date GTFS data to one of the standard sites like openmobilitydata, but I'm hearing that that is likely soon.

The program's in a "pieces lying on the floor" state at the moment, because I've gone through three rounds of prototypes in order to get the architecture right, and now I have to port the detail code from the first two prototypes to the third architecture, but that's pretty cut-and-dried work. The first prototype was producing a pretty nice timetable for the Cardinal but I needed to re-architect to do some of the other timetables.

@neroden Regarding the GTFS data, several of the hobby programmers that run Amtrak Status Maps, ASM Transit Docs, and ASMAD have wanted reliable GTFS data for a long time. Do I understand correctly that the backend data that runs Amtrak/VIA Live Map today is in fact using Amtrak's own Track-A-Train data (that is really GTFS)? But that we would like Amtrak to provide that GTFS data on a public, supported, reliable website like OpenMobility?

 

[neroden]

@neroden Regarding the GTFS data, several of the hobby programmers that run Amtrak Status Maps, ASM Transit Docs, and ASMAD have wanted reliable GTFS data for a long time. Do I understand correctly that the backend data that runs Amtrak/VIA Live Map today is in fact using Amtrak's own Track-A-Train data (that is really GTFS)? But that we would like Amtrak to provide that GTFS data on a public, supported, reliable website like OpenMobility?

Yes, I think. I don't know exactly what those various hobby sites are using, but I know Amtrak isn't providing a clean static GTFS feed; they're getting the data from some other format...

 

[trimetbusfan]

I noticed a few weeks ago that route-specific schedules have appeared to have returned to the schedules page (Train Schedules & Timetables | Amtrak). It will let you print them if you click the print icon although there still appear to be some errors. On some routes, it shows trains that do not run (such as on the Crescent where it shows BOTH the old and the new schedule).

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Here’s a screenshot via the app on my phone.

 

[Amtrak25]

That does not fit my definition of a timetable.

 

[tricia]

An aside: Title of this thread refers to timetables returning in September .... 2021.

 

[slasher-fun]

Every railroad in the world provides timetables, which means their attitude amounts to "we are morons".

Do they? I know that in Europe SNCF doesn't, Deutsche Bahn doesn't, NS doesn't, Renfe doesn't, .Italo doesn't, Trenitalia doesn't, CFF/SBB doesn't... and I'm definitely missing some others.

 

[Rasputin]

An aside: Title of this thread refers to timetables returning in September .... 2021.

This former thread title served as a reminder of where this stood in Amtrak's priorities.

 

[jis]

Do they? I know that in Europe SNCF doesn't, Deutsche Bahn doesn't, NS doesn't, Renfe doesn't, .Italo doesn't, Trenitalia doesn't, CFF/SBB doesn't... and I'm definitely missing some others.

Indeed in general most railroads themselves have stopped publishing printed books.

Europe has been lucky in having the Thomas Cook timetables. The US used to have a consolidated timetable like the European Timetable from Thomas Cook, but it went under sometime in the '70s AFAIR. It would be really nice if some outfit were to take it on to create a consolidated PDF timetable of all passenger service in the US, sort of like the Overseas Edition of Thomas Cook used to have.

Amtrak is pretty much doing what most major railways have been doing, which is to move stuff more on line and publish timetables using the web standard for it for anyone to publish them in whatever form suites them.

I understand the British Bradshaw has started publishing again with the blessing of Network Rail. Unfortunately the Indian Bradshaw shut down around 2016/17 and the Indian Timetable information is now available in abstract form mostly on line, but in addition a remarkably detailed online timetable integrated very well with train status, which surprisingly includes real time information of diverted service is quite impressive. This proved to be very useful during the highly dynamic situation of train cancellations and arbitrary service re-introduction and withdrawal during the COVID period.

Unfortunately as in the US there is no consensus on the future of passenger rail and possibly due to that there is no momentum to do anything about such multiple company spanning activities as a national timetable project.

 

[trimetbusfan]

Here’s a screenshot via the app on my phone.

View attachment 29078
View attachment 29077

It looks a little better if you hit the ‘print’ option.

 

[slasher-fun]

Europe has been lucky in having the Thomas Cook timetables. The US used to have a consolidated timetable like the European Timetable from Thomas Cook, but it went under sometime in the '70s AFAIR. It would be really nice if some outfit were to take it on to create a consolidated PDF timetable of all passenger service in the US, sort of like the Overseas Edition of Thomas Cook used to have.

It's still part of the European Rail Timetable, in the "Beyond Europe" section, project that started when Thomas Cook stopped their publication. European Rail Timetable

Excerpt from July 2022 newslines:

 

[Amtrak25]

Since all the US commuter railroads produce timetables, that leaves Amtrak as the odd man out. It hardly behooves a Thomas Cook equivalent to do it, something Amtrak is perfectly capable of doing themselves, as several talented rail advocates have volunteered to do, which probably irritates Amtrak (good).

While Greyhound has not produced public timetable brochures since the 1980's, there is this Greyhound System Timetable

l have no idea who produces it monthly.

It's still part of the European Rail Timetable, in the "Beyond Europe" section, project that started when Thomas Cook stopped their publication. European Rail Timetable

Excerpt from July 2022 newslines:
View attachment 29086

So an "Amtrak journey planner seems to indicate a change in trains is required at the border".

Uhm, no, though Customs makes you get off and get back on. Two railroads happen to run a through train with enroute change in train number.

These timetable substitutes can be misleading.

Internally to the CN, numbers change again between odd and even at Bayview, ON between railroad east and west.

 

[joelkfla]

A deficiency I just discovered on Amtrak's "Print all trains" feature:

If you search for schedules by origin & destination cities, the website shows (supposedly) all of the trains between those cities on the date specified. Then you can select the Print option, followed by Print all trains.

Here's the catch: It does print timetables for all the trains on a PDF, but only the stations for the first train are printed.

For example, searching for trains between ORL & PHL in October shows the Silver Meteor and the Silver Star. When I "Print all", the Meteor schedule is shown in full. The Star shows a dash at stations it does not serve. But none of the stations served by the Star but not the Meteor are shown.

As it stands now, there is no way to print a timetable with multiple trains showing all of the stations served by them.

 

[Amtrak25]

Amtrak does not want anyone to have a paper trail of their complete schedules.

 

[jis]

A deficiency I just discovered on Amtrak's "Print all trains" feature:

If you search for schedules by origin & destination cities, the website shows (supposedly) all of the trains between those cities on the date specified. Then you can select the Print option, followed by Print all trains.

Here's the catch: It does print timetables for all the trains on a PDF, but only the stations for the first train are printed.

For example, searching for trains between ORL & PHL in October shows the Silver Meteor and the Silver Star. When I "Print all", the Meteor schedule is shown in full. The Star shows a dash at stations it does not serve. But none of the stations served by the Star but not the Meteor are shown.

As it stands now, there is no way to print a timetable with multiple trains showing all of the stations served by them.

It boggles my mind that the crack IT team at Amtrak cannot complete what I would consider a Sophomore Year Computer Programming project adequately in many months.

 

[WWW]

Oh to have more of the phonebook size printed bible of Amtrak trains and routes circa 2016.

I have one dogeared copy and wish I had grabbed more - although dated the track mileage
and timing albeit a few minutes off is valid for guess-a-mating for figuring things out DIY !

At least Amtrak could make digital copies of it available with current correct data.
That is current correct up to date digital copies that can be updated frequently without the
need of going a paper printed copy route.

Amtrak needs to get out of the pony express mode and adopt the airline reservations system.
When booking a sleeper accommodation one should be able to see and select from the
available empty rooms - not be given an arbitrary random assignment - which although it
can be changed - only by calling an Amtrak agent or visiting an Amtrak ticket office.
Such a simple nuisance that shouldn't have to be.

 

[Amtrak25]

I have my Jan 2016 National timetable on the shelf over my computer. It is more like the thickness of Model Railroader, though bound. They vanished around when Boardman was cutting office expenses by getting rid of color tonor in his copiers.

Does Russell's still print their bus Guide, Map, and Timetable ? I have old copies of those too.

 

[20th Century Rider]

Aaah... remembering the days of the big large system wide timetables... the stuff dreams were made of... spend hours and hours perusing and dreaming of places to go with creative ways of taking the longest route between two points.

...So long ago

 

[tricia]

A deficiency I just discovered on Amtrak's "Print all trains" feature:

If you search for schedules by origin & destination cities, the website shows (supposedly) all of the trains between those cities on the date specified. Then you can select the Print option, followed by Print all trains.

Here's the catch: It does print timetables for all the trains on a PDF, but only the stations for the first train are printed.

For example, searching for trains between ORL & PHL in October shows the Silver Meteor and the Silver Star. When I "Print all", the Meteor schedule is shown in full. The Star shows a dash at stations it does not serve. But none of the stations served by the Star but not the Meteor are shown.

As it stands now, there is no way to print a timetable with multiple trains showing all of the stations served by them.

We need an eye-roll emoji on the "like" bar.

 

[leccy]

Let's not get all nostalgic for printed timetables. PDFs or even nicely formatted HTML files are fine. I really hate the habit of forcing everyone onto airline style journey planners that lock you into one option. I don't know where the idea came from that everyone loves them.

PS. Someone about suggested DB doesn't produce line PDFs. They do, they are just a bit hard to find. Elektronisches Kursbuch der Deutschen Bahn

 

[joelkfla]

Let's not get all nostalgic for printed timetables. PDFs or even nicely formatted HTML files are fine. I really hate the habit of forcing everyone onto airline style journey planners that lock you into one option. I don't know where the idea came from that everyone loves them.

PS. Someone about suggested DB doesn't produce line PDFs. They do, they are just a bit hard to find. Elektronisches Kursbuch der Deutschen Bahn

It's nice to have a timetable that you can fold up and stick in your pocket, but I think just about everyone here would be satisfied with PDF timetables that include everything useful that was on the old timetables for each station:

• All trains serving a line on the same page
• Arrival & departure times for extended stops & connection points
• Station staffing status
• Checked baggage service status
• Handicapped accessibility
• Bus connections
• Restrictions on boarding or deboarding

Most of this is not available on what Amtrak is passing off as it's printable schedules.