RPA meeting with Mr. Larry Chestler of Amtrak on 11/15/22

[Amtrakfflyer]

I just watched the last 20 mins of it. Did anyone watch the whole thing? A lot of hem and hawing from Chester toward the end. Couldn’t answer when coach passengers would be allowed to eat in diner, etc. He said they would do their best to answer members questions when Matthews asked if he could forward them. No live Q and A.

I don’t get what the big deal is for coach passengers in the diner is. The gist of the response was to blame it on staffing, fair enough. Anecdotally from what I’ve seen on the SWC at least, the two servers are sitting at a table on their phones more than waiting tables, sometimes a cook too. Not because they are being lazy but because the diner is mostly empty.

 

[jis]

Yes. I watched all of it and found it quite informative, including the Q&A.

 

[pennyk]

I watched the entire presentation (however, was multitasking during some of it). I thought the presenter did a good job and I found the presentation informative.

 

[user 14106]

I also listened. I didn't take what was presented as that coach passengers wouldn't be allowed back anytime soon. I took it as a current initiative to let them back in - that it would be expanded from business to coach on the starlight imminently and he also mentioned that they think they have a couple other routes they expect they can expand it to soon sounding like the eventual goal is for coach access to exist everywhere where there is traditional dining. I take it as good news - sure we'd all like dates and detailed specifics but I wouldn't expect a manager to show all the cards. But at his presentation last spring it was really only a tiny blip on the radar and now it seems to be a much more imminent thing.

 

[user 14106]

Also I would say given the one hour time limitation they hit a lot of topics.

 

[Palmland]

I found it interesting that he talked about equipment availability and was specific about the Superliner I and II. I think the number was 30 (or was it 30 of each) fewer Superliners in service than before Covid due to the 2 major wrecks, some minor incidents, and the intentional idling of cars during the pandemic. With the staff reductions they are having a hard time catching up but have hired 3700 this year, lost another 1500? through attrition, and goal of 4000 next year. I would have liked to have heard some more specific dates for restoration of the different car types for LD trains. They may well have that but chose not to divulge it in case they were unable to meet the targets. In any event that's a lot of cars MIA. I didn't hear any mention of the status of Viewliners.

I'm not sure why coach passenger access to the diner seemed to be such a big priority. Seems to me there are a lot more important things to work on, especially since it might be a poor use of the very scarce staffing. Wouldn't it be better to work on the trains where there was no plan to upgrade services such as the Crescent, TE, CONO? However, if there is diner capacity to handle coach customers with current staff levels, as @Amtrakfflyer suggests, they should do so. But if that's the case why haven't done that long ago?

It was good to hear the equipment plan for the entire fleet is actively being worked on with RFI, RFP slated for FY23 and orders placed by sometime in 2024.

No mention of any plans for AutoTrain, arguably there best financially performing train.

I certainly appreciate that Larry Chestler took the time to talk with RPA as it would have been very easy to ignore a group of Amtrak enthusiasts. But I wish, as a VP, he would have been a little more dynamic and upbeat about Amtak's plans. I found myself losing interest at times. He had a government relations lady talk briefly who seemed to have a lot more energy and I would liked to have heard more from her. I know there were a lot of questions being asked by members that Jim Mathews promised to review and pass on to Chestler. Hope he has time to responds

 

[Brian Battuello]

I may be a cynical old codger, but I wasn't very impressed. It seemed to me that a staff person had written the slides, and he was just reading them. There was almost no information that hadn't already been discussed ad nauseum here and in the RPA newsletters. As the previous poster said, I really wish he would have thrown away the slides and given us his heartfelt opinions about the actual future of LD trains. Nothing he said made me feel any happier, except maybe the hiring 4000 people they never should have let go in the first place.

He kept talking about fleet replacement but aside from the Acelas, we're not going to see anything new for at least five years. Remember how long it took to get a dining car out of CAF?

And speaking of dining, I wish that just once and for all someone would admit that the flex dining was a disaster and has cost Amtrak a huge amount of goodwill. Every overnight train should have a full service dining car with enough staff to provide a quality meal with restaurant level service to all passengers. The legacy railroads did it for over 100 years so it can't be that hard. Bring back Fred Harvey!

 

[GDRRiley]

I found it interesting that he talked about equipment availability and was specific about the Superliner I and II. I think the number was 30 (or was it 30 of each) fewer Superliners in service than before Covid due to the 2 major wrecks, some minor incidents, and the intentional idling of cars during the pandemic. With the staff reductions they are having a hard time catching up but have hired 3700 this year, lost another 1500? through attrition, and goal of 4000 next year. I would have liked to have heard some more specific dates for restoration of the different car types for LD trains. They may well have that but chose not to divulge it in case they were unable to meet the targets. In any event that's a lot of cars MIA. I didn't hear any mention of the status of Viewliners.

The report from October of 21 had 40 superliner I and 23 superliner II down with the 22 derailment adding another 7. that means they are down 70 superliners. and thats even after they did things like acquire back 10 cars from amtrak California which the state can not lease back which we need as rolling stock is our barrier to more service

I may be a cynical old codger, but I wasn't very impressed. It seemed to me that a staff person had written the slides, and he was just reading them. There was almost no information that hadn't already been discussed ad nauseum here and in the RPA newsletters. As the previous poster said, I really wish he would have thrown away the slides and given us his heartfelt opinions about the actual future of LD trains. Nothing he said made me feel any happier, except maybe the hiring 4000 people they never should have let go in the first place.

The future of LD trains without congress pushing more isn't set in stone, they've got new equipment and money for track improvements but that doesn't fix the fact LD needs yearly operating funding planned out 2-3 years in advance. There also isn't enough new equipment for the level of service LD should be running.

He kept talking about fleet replacement but aside from the Acelas, we're not going to see anything new for at least five years. Remember how long it took to get a dining car out of CAF?

The first venture cars should be in service before that, 2025 was the planned start date for new venture cars on the NEC. even if that has slipped a bit 2026 is only 3 years away. Amtraks expecting to have all of its sets on the NEC replaced by 2029

 

[Brian Battuello]

The first venture cars should be in service before that, 2025 was the planned start date for new venture cars on the NEC. even if that has slipped a bit 2026 is only 3 years away. Amtraks expecting to have all of its sets on the NEC replaced by 2029

I sit corrected. I was thinking of replacements for the Superliners and East Coast overnight trains, complete sets with matching sleepers, diners, view lounges and coaches. We did it with the Superliners and the CAF cars (baggage/diner/sleeper), we could do it again if anyone in Washington actually wants to.

The Ventures are decent coaches and badly needed, but I wouldn't want to spend 36 hours in one.

 

[Brian Battuello]

The more I think about it, the more depressed I get. Larry Chestler's title is "Vice President for Long Distance Business Development." I really wish he had come onto the Zoom call and said, "I just got back from a survey trip on the California Zephyr from Emeryville to Chicago, and the new menu is really impressive. Loved the fresh flowers! I won't rest until every Amtrak customer has this level of service. Next week, I'm taking my family from Washington DC to Seattle on the Lake Shore Limited and Empire Builder. We all love riding in the Sightseer Lounge. Amtrak long distance is an essential part of American transportation, and we're spending the next five years making it even better."

I bet this guy hasn't spent three nights in a roomette unless his boss told him he had to.

 

[GDRRiley]

I sit corrected. I was thinking of replacements for the Superliners and East Coast overnight trains, complete sets with matching sleepers, diners, view lounges and coaches. We did it with the Superliners and the CAF cars (baggage/diner/sleeper), we could do it again if anyone in Washington actually wants to.

getting more viewliners for east coast LD service to make them all viewliners would be a good idea. making some Sun Lounge style cars would be great. they've got 6 spare dinners and 13 viewliner I sleeper cars if they wanted to add more RT to some services.
Given amtrak owns the design finding another manufacture who won't screw it up as badly as CAF shouldn't be too hard.

The Ventures are decent coaches and badly needed, but I wouldn't want to spend 36 hours in one.

if they became LD coaches they'd need a lot of tweaks to make them be more comfortable but I've not gotten a chance yet to sit in the California ones.

 

[jis]

getting more viewliners for east coast LD service to make them all viewliners would be a good idea. making some Sun Lounge style cars would be great. they've got 6 spare dinners and 13 viewliner I sleeper cars if they wanted to add more RT to some services.
Given amtrak owns the design finding another manufacture who won't screw it up as badly as CAF shouldn't be too hard.

They have exactly the number of Viewliner Diners and Amfleet II lounges that they need to equip all the current single level trains plus contingencies. They don't have any more than that so other than making Cardinal daily there will not be any other single level overnight LD train with full Diner and Lounge service until more equipment is ordered and received.

I can almost bet that no new Viewliners will ever be built. I am hoping that many new cars with similar features will be built, but they will be based on new off the shelf Tier III car shells with modular HVAC systems and other modern equipment.

if they became LD coaches they'd need a lot of tweaks to make them be more comfortable but I've not gotten a chance yet to sit in the California ones.

I don't think the LD version of the Ventures will look much like the Regional ones internally. I also think the ICT ones will be significantly different internally from the State ones.

 

[GDRRiley]

They have exactly the number of Viewliner Diners and Amfleet II lounges that they need to equip all the current single level trains plus contingencies. They don't have any more than that so other than making Cardinal daily there will not be any other single level overnight LD train until more equipment is ordered and received.

I'm looking at their 2021 equipment report. it says they've got 6 viewliner dinners, 13 sleepers and 3 lounge "diner lite" cars inactive. Inactive wouldn't include spares they need now.

I can almost bet that no new Viewliners will ever be built.

I don't think the LD version of the Ventures will look much like the Regional ones internally. I also think the ICT ones will be significantly different internally from the State ones.

it would surprise me if more got built but it is an option for east coast LD
So far Via, amtrak state services and Brightline all use very similar looking seats.

 

[jis]

The number 25 is what is required to run the current single level service and Cardinal daily. That is why there were 25 Amfleet II Lounges, 25 Viewliner II Diners and originally intended 25 Viewliner II Bag-Dorms. Thanks to the CAF fiasco the last bit became 10 and ruined a well laid out plan to maximize revenue Sleeper space.

Of course now we have one Lounge wrecked.

 

[Railspike]

Is it possible that some (not all) of the Superliners could be farmed out for maintenance/repair to other companies?
Once repaired they could be transported back to Beech Grove for final inspection before being released to service.
I realize that some cars would have to be repaired at Beech Grove but some might be easily repaired elsewhere and returned to service.

 

[jis]

Is it possible that some (not all) of the Superliners could be farmed out for maintenance/repair to other companies?
Once repaired they could be transported back to Beech Grove for final inspection before being released to service.
I realize that some cars would have to be repaired at Beech Grove but some might be easily repaired elsewhere and returned to service.

Existing Union contracts may stand in the way of such outsourcing of work. I don't know if it does or not, but typically contracts have constraints on what can be outsourced, since that undermines the Unions membership. Generally the advocacy groups have been quite against undermining Unions in the past.

 

[user 14106]

Existing Union contracts may stand in the way of such outsourcing of work. I don;t know if it does or not, but typically contracts have constraints on what can be contracted out, since that undermines the Unions membership. Generally the advocacy groups have been quite against undermining Unions in the past.

I would add that some of the potential vendors are also likely dealing with similar skilled labor shortages and you wouldn't be guaranteed to get anyone with the resources to do it. If I recall correctly Amtrak did at one point put out feelers via their procurement process to help with the Superliner refresh process but it sounds like nothing came of it.

 

[01piglet_patinas]

I would have liked a breakdown of the hires (which categories was not in the slides) - and also with 1600 who left that reduces the 3728 hires. FY22

Breakdown wanted here too - So hiring 4000 may be really only 2500? with the exiting of employees in FY23.
And training times are long.

"Since the beginning of FY 2022, Amtrak has hired 3,728 new employees across all areas of the company, representing a record annual level of new employees at Amtrak.
Amtrak is looking to grow by hiring an additional -4,000 new employees in FY23 with critical roles in all areas of Service Delivery and Operations:
• Over this same period, ~1,600 people have left Amtrak for new jobs, retirement, etc.

 

[user 14106]

For those who didn’t get to see this - it’s available on YouTube now.

 

[joelkfla]

For those who didn’t get to see this - it’s available on YouTube now.