Rumors about Amtrak move to the MIC at Miami International Airport (not happening)

[MARC Rider]

Strictly speaking, the Miami station is a "Amtrak Standard Station Type 300A".

peter

Yes, here's most of what you need to know about the Amtrak Standard Stations Program:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak_Standard_Stations_Program
While these were architecturally very undistinguished and built to the taste of the 1970s, they were designed to be real stations, not Amshacks. Apparently, they couldn't even afford to build many of them, and thus the true Amshack was born, or they managed to finagle states and localities to pony up the cash to restore old stations or build new ones (I.e. Albany.)

 

[zephyr17]

I suspect that was what would have been provided in Portland, Oregon if Amtrak's effort to get out of Union Station had proceeded.

I don't know. Probably would have been a Type 150B like the old Albany/Rennsalear station. Even Buffalo/Depew only has an "extended" version of a Type 75C (like Tacoma's recently decommissioned Puyallup Ave station, but with a bigger waiting room).

 

[joelkfla]

A conductor has to be on the rear with a brake valve and an air horn.

But that's true regardless of crossings, no?

 

[zephyr17]

But that's true regardless of crossings, no?

Only when backing, unless I'm misunderstanding you.

 

[joelkfla]

Only when backing, unless I'm misunderstanding you.

Yeah, my question was intended to be: Why is the number of crossings significant with regards to a backup move? Because IIRC @railiner asked how the number of crossings on the possible MIA backup move compared to the LA backup move.

 

[zephyr17]

Yeah, my question was intended to be: Why is the number of crossings significant with regards to a backup move? Because IIRC @railiner asked how the number of crossings on the possible MIA backup move compared to the LA backup move.

Yeah, they just have to blow the air horn more and be more alert with their brake valve, just do the same thing more times...

 

[crescent-zephyr]

A conductor has to be on the rear with a brake valve and an air horn.

That’s for all back up moves, grade crossings or not.

 

[zephyr17]

That’s for all back up moves, grade crossings or not.

Yep.

 

[railiner]

Yeah, my question was intended to be: Why is the number of crossings significant with regards to a backup move? Because IIRC @railiner asked how the number of crossings on the possible MIA backup move compared to the LA backup move.

I am not familiar enough with either route to know, but I just imagined that if the Miami route had a lot more, it might require a slower speed, and take longer for the same distance. And more prudent to have a a switch engine make the yard moves, than a Conductor with a tail hose.
Not sure…

 

[west point]

Here is the complete skiny of the back up crossings according to open railway maps.
1. From the Mia yardsy ou have 2 grade crossing before joining the Sun Rail track: Are they private? Then it is 10 more to MIC.

Now Tampa: after entering the east leg of Neve wye train maybe stops. beyond east 10 th ave..
2. then back across 10 th and 2 more on west leg of wye.
3. then 13 before trolly + (1 for trolly ? )
4. then 13 more to station.

Counting trolly that is a total of 30 ? seems awful high.

Question about the station. Open railway shows track 1 out of service (OOS). Tracks 2 & 3 in service to station's bumpers bumpers . 4 &5 OOS. A track 6 shows that is installed but not connected to track 3. Is that track 6 a display track?

You can check my math by zooming in on open railway map.

https://www.openrailwaymap.org/

 

[railbuck]

At least the pax will have easy access to rental cars at the end of their trip.

Not just rental cars but lots of hotels around the airport too. Many offer free shuttles to the cruiseports the next morning. Very convenient for cruise passengers.

And direct access to the Miami Metro too.

Also much better connection to the local bus network. The existing station appears to be served by two bus routes, compared to 9 or so that stop at the intermodal center including the express service to South Beach.

 

[acelafan]

Well, that's nice. Thanks, Amtrak, for wasting a lot of time and effort.

Short blurb: Amtrak, now eight years late pulling its first train into a station built to its specifications at Miami International Airport, has finally set a firm arrival date: never. In a short letter, the National Railroad Passenger Corp. stunned transportation officials who had been negotiating final details of Amtrak’s station lease by saying that running its Miami trains as far as the airport would cost too much.

https://www.miamitodaynews.com/2024...f-deals-to-serve-miami-international-airport/

 

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

https://www.miamitodaynews.com/2024...f-deals-to-serve-miami-international-airport/

Seems to be unexpected.

 

[blueman271]

Well, that's nice. Thanks, Amtrak, for wasting a lot of time and effort.

Short blurb: Amtrak, now eight years late pulling its first train into a station built to its specifications at Miami International Airport, has finally set a firm arrival date: never. In a short letter, the National Railroad Passenger Corp. stunned transportation officials who had been negotiating final details of Amtrak’s station lease by saying that running its Miami trains as far as the airport would cost too much.

https://www.miamitodaynews.com/2024...f-deals-to-serve-miami-international-airport/

Amtrak, FDOT, and Dade County are a match made in incompetent heaven. While I enjoy the old Amtrak station and have many good memories of starting adventures there with my dad it’s a shame that Amtrak is still there.

 

[railiner]

Maybe Brightline will use the space? A few more trains or divert some from their Miami station?
Or maybe using that unused section for a shuttle train linking the airport with the cruiseport?
Maybe Tri Rail could use another platform and a pair of tracks for added servie?

 

[jis]

Maybe Brightline will use the space? A few more trains or divert some from their Miami station?
Or maybe using that unused section for a shuttle train linking the airport with the cruiseport?
Maybe Tri Rail could use another platform and a pair of tracks for added servie?

The first two ideas are good ones. They will require construction of a link between FEC and TriRail on the Southeast quadrant of Iris, and for Brightline the platform at MIC will have to become high level. There is some cost involved but not something that is hopelessly expensive.

But the unfortunate truth may be that given the way the winds are blowing it may become much harder to add any Amtrak service in Florida even if we are able to maintain the current service.

 

[PaTrainFan]

Amtrak certainly has a knack for making friends and influencing enemies.

 

[alpha3]

Amtrak, FDOT, and Dade County are a match made in incompetent heaven. While I enjoy the old Amtrak station and have many good memories of starting adventures there with my dad it’s a shame that Amtrak is still there.

So very true; I was born and raised in Miami; you just can't underestimate Miami-Dade County's zeal for needing kickbacks and 'palms' liberally greased. Many of their schemes were/are quite brazen. Too many articles I could reference, just google, ''Miami-Dade County airport corruption.'' Lots of juicy articles.

 

[blueman271]

So very true; I was born and raised in Miami; you just can't underestimate Miami-Dade County's zeal for needing kickbacks and 'palms' liberally greased. Many of their schemes were/are quite brazen. Too many articles I could reference, just google, ''Miami-Dade County airport corruption.'' Lots of juicy articles.

I too was born and raised in Dade County, I lived there from 1985 until I left for college in 2003. I know all about the airport corruption and the transportation tax that was supposed to be used to build numerous Metrorail lines and all the pie-in-the-sky ideas to get rapid transit to Miami Beach.

 

[west point]

I do not like this decision. However, let us look at it from Amtrak's management position. Going to and from the airport station will be an ongoing cost without any benefit of additional revenue. Each train set will probably take an additional 30 minutes to from the airport. All train employees more duty time pay. Will it mean a D/H switcher to move it to from airport station? The D/H leaves less time for servicing. That may mean another servicing employee to guarantee an on-time departure from the airport station.

 

[blueman271]

I do not like this decision. However, let us look at it from Amtrak's management position. Going to and from the airport station will be an ongoing cost without any benefit of additional revenue. Each train set will probably take an additional 30 minutes to from the airport. All train employees more duty time pay. Will it mean a D/H switcher to move it to from airport station? The D/H leaves less time for servicing. That may mean another servicing employee to guarantee an on-time departure from the airport station.

That’s penny wise and pound foolish. Moving to the airport will undoubtedly cost Amtrak more but the benefits it would provide passengers would be exponentially greater than any cost increase. The ability to easily access transit and rental cars and the central geographic location of the MIC would have been a boon to passengers and I’m sure would have driven ridership numbers up in the long run. Instead Amtrak is going to stay in their isolated station at the end of a dead end industrial road connected to a single metro bus route and nothing else to save a few bucks. Passengers be damned.

 

[PaTrainFan]

I do not like this decision. However, let us look at it from Amtrak's management position. Going to and from the airport station will be an ongoing cost without any benefit of additional revenue. Each train set will probably take an additional 30 minutes to from the airport. All train employees more duty time pay. Will it mean a D/H switcher to move it to from airport station? The D/H leaves less time for servicing. That may mean another servicing employee to guarantee an on-time departure from the airport station.

If all this is true (and I do not the have knowledge to confirm or counter), it remains a shame that so many years, so much money and a great deal of hope was wasted on this.

But at minimum, It is another argument for critics that Amtrak doesn't play well in the sandbox with others.

 

[Anderson]

I'm just curious as to who paid for the Miami Intermodal stuff. Was it Amtrak? FDOT? The Federal government?

I ask because I could see a really messy legal tangle arise out of this.

 

[railiner]

I do not like this decision. However, let us look at it from Amtrak's management position. Going to and from the airport station will be an ongoing cost without any benefit of additional revenue. Each train set will probably take an additional 30 minutes to from the airport. All train employees more duty time pay. Will it mean a D/H switcher to move it to from airport station? The D/H leaves less time for servicing. That may mean another servicing employee to guarantee an on-time departure from the airport station.

By that logic, maybe Amtrak should cut back this (and other) route(s) further, where possible to get similar savings?
I don’t agree.

 

[Tom C]

This is an example of why communication at the early stages of a project and getting it right the first time is critical. I’m going to be limited on what I opine on this issue at this point because I want to see if anything further comes out and if Amtrak decides to put out “their side” of the story. Amtrak also hasn’t detailed what their alternative plan on the current site entails.

I really did honestly hope they’d be able to come to some arrangement that would work for all parties, but the facility does have deficiencies (platforms, too small station building, etc.) that if better communication and coordination had happened 15 years ago we may not be where we are. I’m sure I’ll have more to say later but I’ll leave it there for now.