Incredible after all the money spent and additional work done at this station.
Rumors about Amtrak move to the MIC at Miami International Airport (not happening)
- Thread starter joelkfla
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Open, transparent communications is one of Amtrak's major failings. "Stuff" happens and if reasons behind it are communicated clearly, logically and concisely even major corportations are often given benefit of the doubt. But Amtrak, unfortunately, chooses to be obtuse and opaque so much of the time and it is a major turn off to even its most ardent supporters. I do not sit in specific judgment of individuals Amtrak leadership, as many others do. But this has been their culture for eons; it is nothing new under the current leadership. In general there needs to be a culture shift to being more transparent and being less difficult to work with, in general. I am not optimistic it will happen.
Categorically I agree. This also applies to state and local transit agencies - agencies that likewise including in my state are often not always the most transparent. Seems like a collective failure here.
As to the degree of assigning blame in this particular case I’ve heard enough about the back and forth that I’d like to hear a bit more on what the sticking points in the current round of talks that began in 2022 were before I form my final conclusive opinions.
Obviously Amtrak comes off with a not great look in the report that’s out but there are of course two sides to every story and I would like to see if their perspective and side of things comes out (whether officially or through back channels).
It’s reasonable to assume the backup move and operational costs on Amtrak’s side were a factor here, but what I don’t have full clarity on was did Amtrak propose things that could have mitigated some of their sticking points and make it more workable from their perspective (such as putting the wye track back in just north of MIC to shorten the backup move) that the other parties either rejected categorically or were there logjams on who was going to pay for what?
I’d just like to hear a bit more about what went on between 2022 and 2024 before I say inflexibility at Amtrak was the only thing at work here. I’m not denying the possibility that it was a factor or the primary factor - but I don’t want to discount the possibility that there was contributing inflexibility on the Florida/local side of things until we see if more comes out.
As to the degree of assigning blame in this particular case I’ve heard enough about the back and forth that I’d like to hear a bit more on what the sticking points in the current round of talks that began in 2022 were before I form my final conclusive opinions.
Obviously Amtrak comes off with a not great look in the report that’s out but there are of course two sides to every story and I would like to see if their perspective and side of things comes out (whether officially or through back channels).
It’s reasonable to assume the backup move and operational costs on Amtrak’s side were a factor here, but what I don’t have full clarity on was did Amtrak propose things that could have mitigated some of their sticking points and make it more workable from their perspective (such as putting the wye track back in just north of MIC to shorten the backup move) that the other parties either rejected categorically or were there logjams on who was going to pay for what?
I’d just like to hear a bit more about what went on between 2022 and 2024 before I say inflexibility at Amtrak was the only thing at work here. I’m not denying the possibility that it was a factor or the primary factor - but I don’t want to discount the possibility that there was contributing inflexibility on the Florida/local side of things until we see if more comes out.
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acelafan
Conductor
True there are always 2 sides to a story so I hope we learn more. I lived in Miami years ago when this whole thing was being planned...it was going to be very convenient to get off the train and grab a car or make a transit connection to get downtown.
It's not as if the intermodal center or the Hialeah yards moved their locations. A sigificant backup move was always going to be required but there were also benefits to customers. Also, as mentioned above someone had to pay for the reconfiguration of roadways, intersections, signals etc at Amtrak's insistence. So for them to unexpectedly walk away is a lesson to others of why spend your time working with Amtrak if all they do is drag their feet and potentially walk away at the end of the day (or the end of 8 years?)
It's not as if the intermodal center or the Hialeah yards moved their locations. A sigificant backup move was always going to be required but there were also benefits to customers. Also, as mentioned above someone had to pay for the reconfiguration of roadways, intersections, signals etc at Amtrak's insistence. So for them to unexpectedly walk away is a lesson to others of why spend your time working with Amtrak if all they do is drag their feet and potentially walk away at the end of the day (or the end of 8 years?)
Very true and from my experience when back and forth finger pointing goes on the truth is usually somewhere in the middle with fault to go around. That’s kind of why I’m curious to see if anymore comes out.
Having said that it wouldn’t surprise me if not much does as Amtrak seems to compartmentalize even when being more transparent would be in their benefit in the blame game department and I guess they can’t complain about one sided stories becoming the narrative most people accept as the truth if they refuse to comment or share their perspective on their decision making (or offer anything that the other side might be conveniently leaving out about the last couple years of talks when interviewed.)
It’s one of my biggest criticisms of Amtrak. If they’d be more up front about things and provide more transparency there would probably be less conspiracy theories out there about some of the stuff they do.
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For US railroads, everything comes down to real estate usually. What I see is that Amtrak's got a station in Hialeah that they probably own free and clear. That property has likely appreciated in value quite a bit since they acquired it, which is a plus for the balance sheet. If I have my facts straight, Miami was asking Amtrak to replace that asset with a lease, which is an expense, plus add on additional labor costs to bring trains to the MIC plus whatever other operational headaches using a facility they had minimal input on during its design and construction. Unless Miami really offered a sweetheart deal on this lease, it wasn't likely to work financially for Amtrak. They don't have another dime to spend (or lose) operating their trains to Miami right now. On top of that, there might be future opportunities to make the MIC work but once they shut down the Hialeah station (especially if they were forced to sell it off) there would be no going back.
blueman271
OBS Chief
Does Amtrak exist to serve the traveling public or does it exist to serve itself? If it’s the former there isn’t a single good reason to stay at the current location. If it’s the latter then all the points you have made are valid and Amtrak is once again acting in their own best interest to the detriment of the traveling public.
acelafan
Conductor
And then it took Amtrak 8, 15, 25+ years to figure out this whole thing was bad for their bottom line? Gee whiz, but I guess we should not be surprised.
Using MIC might be such a significant expense that the financial stability of the Silvers/Floridian might be compromised, and they might have to go back to the Silver Starvation or flex meals.
It’s possible there was some sort of sticking point. This is pure speculation but if I had to guess what happened was one of two things.
One of the two possibilities I think is most likely is they got into some kind of impasse funding or otherwise on some improvement that Amtrak wanted done as a condition (if Amtrak for example said they’d only do it if a wye was put back in at the MIC so they could eliminate the long backup move and turn right there and back in to the platform. Another possibility is Amtrak pushed for permanent closure of the street the front of the train would block.)
The other possibility besides an impasse on conditions I think could be Amtrak was hoping to try to push for a state supported service within Florida but through talks it seemed that Florida would not likely pursue it any time soon and they lost interest in the MIC if such a thing became apparent. Pure speculation - unless Amtrak or anyone at TriRail, the state, or county or anyone else who was privy to the discussions says more we may never know.
One of the two possibilities I think is most likely is they got into some kind of impasse funding or otherwise on some improvement that Amtrak wanted done as a condition (if Amtrak for example said they’d only do it if a wye was put back in at the MIC so they could eliminate the long backup move and turn right there and back in to the platform. Another possibility is Amtrak pushed for permanent closure of the street the front of the train would block.)
The other possibility besides an impasse on conditions I think could be Amtrak was hoping to try to push for a state supported service within Florida but through talks it seemed that Florida would not likely pursue it any time soon and they lost interest in the MIC if such a thing became apparent. Pure speculation - unless Amtrak or anyone at TriRail, the state, or county or anyone else who was privy to the discussions says more we may never know.
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