San Diego's historic Santa Fe Depot is about to be sold

[TinCan782]

San Diego's historic Santa Fe Depot is about to be sold


The Santa Fe Depot, one of the region’s most historic landmarks, is being sold to a local private investor with escrow due to close the first week of November.
Saw this link posted on Trainorders ...

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/sd-fi-santafesale-20171002-story.html

 

[railiner]

Interesting...I had always assumed that the BNSF, Amtrak, or the city or state owned it....

 

[jis]

Santa Fe had spun off its real estate holdings into a separate company. This property went with a lot of other Santa Fe properties to that entity named Cetellus, and hence BNSF never came close to owning it.

Here is the relevant portion of the article explaining all this:

The current owner is ProLogis, a San Francisco-based logistics real estate company with $72 billion in assets under management, encompassing 684 million square feet in 3,319 properties in 19 countries.

It acquired the depot and surrounding property in 2005 when it merged with Catellus, a real estate spinoff of Santa Fe Industries, the successor to the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway.

 

[ChuckL]

San Diego's historic Santa Fe Depot is about to be sold

The Santa Fe Depot, one of the region’s most historic landmarks, is being sold to a local private investor with escrow due to close the first week of November.

Saw this link posted on Trainorders ...

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/sd-fi-santafesale-20171002-story.html

I'm arriving in San Diego on November 3rd and departing on the 8th. It's a beautiful Depot and it will be interesting to see how much space Amtrak will still be leasing. I will try to remember to update this posting once I pass through there.

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[JoeBas]

I would expect 250 sterile condos at 750,000k a pop coming soon to a historic station near you...

 

[rrdude]

Nope, not gonna happen. On register of National Historic Landmarks. City already "rescued" it from similar many years ago. It is one of my favorite stations, along with the Michigan Central in Ann Arbor, MI

 

[JoeBas]

When it comes to developers... never say never.

 

[jis]

When it comes to developers... never say never.

Sure. With appropriate political connections they could theoretically get it off the Register of National Historic Landmarks, but I think the chances of that happening are somewhere between nil and nonexistent at this time..

 

[Bob Dylan]

Probably just surround it with High Rise Condos,a Hotel and Retail, perhaps even inside the Station like in Denver and Washington.

 

[jis]

Several of my acquaintances in San Diego seem to think that the station needs more commercial activity including vendors of relevance to the traveling public. I don't have any opinion either way. I don't see how acquiring the station property would give any extra ability to build condos outside the property. Presumably the owners of the property around the station are already able to do what local zoning laws allow anyway.

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[Pere Flyer]

It is one of my favorite stations, along with the Michigan Central in Ann Arbor, MI

I don't mean to derail the thread, but Michigan Central Station is in the Corktown area of Detroit. (I agree, it is a beautiful station that will hopefully be resurrected in some capacity.)

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[ChuckL]

It is one of my favorite stations, along with the Michigan Central in Ann Arbor, MI

I don't mean to derail the thread, but Michigan Central Station is in the Corktown area of Detroit. (I agree, it is a beautiful station that will hopefully be resurrected in some capacity.)

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Work is currently going on in the old Michigan Central Station in Detroit and there has been some discussion about trying to get rail service back in it, but that is very preliminary at this point.
The original Depot in Ann Arbor on the Michigan Central line is also renowned and is now the Gandy Dancer restaurant. The following was in an article on www.mlive.com about that depot:

"Designed by Detroit architect Frederick Spier, the station was hailed as the finest on the line between Buffalo and Chicago when it opened in 1887.

The central building's interior featured ornate waiting rooms, an elaborate ticket booth, red oak ceilings and trim, French tile floors, stained glass windows and a large terra cotta fireplace. The grounds outside included a garden with a fountain."

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[bretton88]

Several of my acquaintances in San Diego seem to think that the station needs more commercial activity including vendors of relevance to the traveling public. I don't have any opinion either way. I don't see how acquiring the station property would give any extra ability to build condos outside the property. Presumably the owners of the property around the station are already able to do what local zoning laws allow anyway.

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The plan is for the developer to "activate" the station more, so expect to see a restaurant and some shops to appear in the station, but not for major changes.

 

[Pere Flyer]

It is one of my favorite stations, along with the Michigan Central in Ann Arbor, MI

I don't mean to derail the thread, but Michigan Central Station is in the Corktown area of Detroit. (I agree, it is a beautiful station that will hopefully be resurrected in some capacity.)

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

Work is currently going on in the old Michigan Central Station in Detroit and there has been some discussion about trying to get rail service back in it, but that is very preliminary at this point.
The original Depot in Ann Arbor on the Michigan Central line is also renowned and is now the Gandy Dancer restaurant. The following was in an article on www.mlive.com about that depot:

"Designed by Detroit architect Frederick Spier, the station was hailed as the finest on the line between Buffalo and Chicago when it opened in 1887.

The central building's interior featured ornate waiting rooms, an elaborate ticket booth, red oak ceilings and trim, French tile floors, stained glass windows and a large terra cotta fireplace. The grounds outside included a garden with a fountain."

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

That description compels me to find a photo!

 

[ChuckL]

It is one of my favorite stations, along with the Michigan Central in Ann Arbor, MI

I don't mean to derail the thread, but Michigan Central Station is in the Corktown area of Detroit. (I agree, it is a beautiful station that will hopefully be resurrected in some capacity.)

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

Work is currently going on in the old Michigan Central Station in Detroit and there has been some discussion about trying to get rail service back in it, but that is very preliminary at this point.
The original Depot in Ann Arbor on the Michigan Central line is also renowned and is now the Gandy Dancer restaurant. The following was in an article on www.mlive.com about that depot:

"Designed by Detroit architect Frederick Spier, the station was hailed as the finest on the line between Buffalo and Chicago when it opened in 1887.

The central building's interior featured ornate waiting rooms, an elaborate ticket booth, red oak ceilings and trim, French tile floors, stained glass windows and a large terra cotta fireplace. The grounds outside included a garden with a fountain."

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

That description compels me to find a photo!

Search for Ann Arbor Michigan train station original history on Bing to get more information and pictures. Google search would most likely find the same details.

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[MikefromCrete]

What's the Ann Arbor and Detroit stations got to do with the San Diego station?

 

[cirdan]

I'm surprised to read that Amtrak actually leases (part of) the sttaion and that this lease has an approaching expiry date.

Does this mean that if theoretically the owners refuse to renew the lease, or ask a price above what Amtrak is willing or able to pay, that Amtrak service to San Diego would simply evaporate (or relocate to an out-of-town Amshack), meaning all the investment in things like LOSSAN are simply lost.

Or is there some law in place preventing the property owners from doing that?

 

[Pere Flyer]

What's the Ann Arbor and Detroit stations got to do with the San Diego station?

All three benefit from community stewardship of and value in historic transit stations.

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[Devil's Advocate]

I'm surprised to read that Amtrak actually leases (part of) the sttaion and that this lease has an approaching expiry date. Does this mean that if theoretically the owners refuse to renew the lease, or ask a price above what Amtrak is willing or able to pay, that Amtrak service to San Diego would simply evaporate (or relocate to an out-of-town Amshack), meaning all the investment in things like LOSSAN are simply lost? Or is there some law in place preventing the property owners from doing that?

In theory Amtrak could eventually be priced out of offering ticketing and baggage services (or anything else that made use of private station property) in San Diego. I'm not aware of any law that specifically prevents this. Service to San Diego probably wouldn't evaporate though. The station doesn't own or control the use of the tracks so passenger trains could still stop there regardless of who owned the station. Access to the rails does have some legal protections so Amtrak could potentially take the case to court if they felt they were being forced out of San Diego unfairly.

Here in Texas we're not nearly as pro-rail as California, but we still didn't lose much in the way of meaningful services when Amtrak lost access to Sunset Station. At first Amtrak services were moved into a temporary building and eventually a new permanent location was built just behind the original building. It's not a great situation by any stretch, but the honest truth is that Amtrak lacked the necessary means and motivation to maintain the original station to a reasonable standard and the building they use now is much closer in size and relevance to the amount of passenger rail service we have here.

 

[jis]

Without actually seeing what restrictions and easements are there in the deed, it is very hard to tell what is or is not possible.

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[Alexandria Nick]

When it comes to developers... never say never.

Sure. With appropriate political connections they could theoretically get it off the Register of National Historic Landmarks, but I think the chances of that happening are somewhere between nil and nonexistent at this time..

You don't have to get something removed to renovate or convert. San Diego is a Historic Place, not a Historic Landmark. Pittsburgh's station is on the the NRHP and was converted to apartments 30 years ago. Never came off the list, never had its status changed.

 

[jis]

Of course, the fact that the station building at San Diego does not have a building that can be converted to a condo complex makes the example of Pittsburgh somewhat irrelevant [emoji57]

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[Woodcut60]

One of the Amtrak system's most beautiful stations, in my opinion. I've been there many times because we have friends in San Diego.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Without actually seeing what restrictions and easements are there in the deed, it is very hard to tell what is or is not possible.

True, but out of all the various hypothetical developments we consider on the forum, this particular threat is not much of a concern for me. The confluence of factors (historic legal protections, anticipated citizen activism and political support, logistical considerations and short term profit motive, etc.) would appear to work against big purpose-altering changes in the near term.

 

[C855B]

I wouldn't worry this. The San Diego station is an iconic landmark, tourist draw and already developed as a local transportation hub. And lots of passenger traffic! Developer may remodel the interior - tho' I hope without messing too much with the architecture - with the idea of leasing the space to higher-end convenience outlets like Starbucks.

The retail situation there is ragtag and space use is wasteful, so I could see a removal of the original Santa Fe ticketing and waiting areas and even repurposing enough space for a full-blown restaurant. Lord knows the area needs a better selection of eats.