Scanner, Amtrak/Host Frequencies & General Advice

[DryCreek]

Now, about the GPS. I have an older TomTom VIA 1500. Would it be of any use to me? I can mount it to the window, but I'm not sure if I'd get a signal since the glass is vertical. I have used on planes before and managed to get a signal for a while. It was a hoot to see us hurtling along at 500 mph while passing through lakes and through structures on the map!

I am surprised they let you use that aboard airplanes....IIRC, a GPS, like any radio receiver, is not allowed to be used, unless they weren't aware of it....

I think you are smart to learn to thoroughly master the operation of your new scanner, prior to taking your trip. I learned that the hard way....took a new scanner, before learning it, and was frustrated to miss a lot of transmission's in the time it took me to get to the right frequency....

As far as following along the railways...I simply use my phone, and use the Verizon Navigator...they even show the railways initials...works pretty good.

I've been going over the manual in my spare time. Luckily it has a very rapid scan of all 1000 channels it covers. I don't have to select a certain band unless I want to narrow my scans to that grouping of channels only. I may narrow it down to the second bank of channels (137.0000-174.0000) and whichever bank also covers GMRS and talking defect detectors (400 MHz?). That would allow it to scan even quicker and block out Fire/EMS/Police chatter. I can set the signal stalker to work on the railroad bank and use regular scan for the 400 MHz services. I have heard that some train crews use the GMRS/Family Radio Service radios now and then. Plus, it's always fun to hear a wife fussing at her husband she is following - usually about driving too fast or needing to stop...

I can't use the Verizon Navigator. I have an old Samsung Rugby flip-phone with AT&T Go (pay as you go service). It may have GPS, I don't know. My brother told me it can take pictures and send text messages, but I don't bother with that stuff.

 

[railiner]

GPS should be fine, then, as GPS on a phone or regular consumer device is receive only (the device gets numerous signals and does math to find where you're located, if I understand the technology correctly.)

Of course, airlines ban FM radio receivers, so receive-only is no guarantee of anything.

The reason airlines ban FM (and all other band) radio (or television) receivers is that receivers circuitry actually generate a tiny bit of radio-frequency energy that "may interfere" with aircraft navigation and communications. GPS receiver's are the same.

The only kind of radio receiver that does not do this, is the ancient crystal radio's used back in the early twentieth century, and by some hobbyist's later...

 

[jis]

GPS receivers are (explicitly) allowed at least on United and on many other airlines. Indeed one time in trans-Pacific FC I was sitting next to a deadheading pilot and he and we had a great time hooking up his pocket GPS with my laptop and cranking up the Delorme map software to watch our flight path. He gave a running commentary on way points etc. this was before there were moving maps on AVOD screens, on a 747.

Since then I have used pocket GPS many times on planes of airlines that allow it.

Some airlines ban it for their own pleasure. There is apparently no real technical reason to do so.

 

[railiner]

I suppose there's no way to totally prevent potential RFI on an airliner....they would have to ban wave-ceptor wristwatches (auto-set by radio control), as well as car keyfobs which transmit miniscule amounts when used for keyless cars

 

[DryCreek]

Hey, what happened to the post from (Guest) Mr. Crabbypants?

I was going to soothe his injured soul by reminding him to read my first post.

1 - I am going to be a Roomette, not in general coach.

2 - I will be using headphones (due to hearing loss from 6 years in a U.S. Navy engineroom).

3 - Anything said over an open and unencrypted radio channel is fair game. I live by that rule. At the power plant where I work almost all of our communications are on a trunked Motorola system that can be picked up by anyone who is curious.

4 - Those of us that take an active interest in our mode of transportation are less of a pain in the butt to those providing it - we can find out what the cause of the delay is and won't be bothering the conductor or attendants with the same question they've just answered a hundred times. And yes, while the cockpit comms are no longer broadcast into the passenger compartment, the whizz-bang new scanner given to me easily picks up ATC and GC transmissions, so I can hear what they are saying from the comfort of my own home. I know licensed pilots, and they have helped me with the vernacular through the years so I am familiar with the stages of flight (taxi, rotation, climb-out, at-altitude directions, initial approach, short final, wheels down on second "patch", taxi, gate arrival). I take interest i any mode of transportation I choose to employ. Otherwise, I would be just like the cattle we load into the trailer when it's time to thin the herd.

5 - Are you an Amtrak employee? Is that why you feel that some form of unspoken etiquette has been breached by those of us who listen in? If that's the case, never say anything out loud you wouldn't want repeated. I learned that a long time ago.

Foamer. What an interesting term! I haven't ridden on a commercial passenger train since the very early 90's (not counting WDW and DL trains and monorails), and I am classed as a fanatic to that level. Wow. Isn't anyone curious as to what goes on in the world around them any more?

 

[chakk]

I frequently take my Tom Tom or Magellan GPS on Amtrak. It works fine so long as I keep it within a few inches of the window. I've found that both of these devices will "jump" to a nearby roadway (from the mapped railroad track) if the road is within about 50 feet of the location of the GPS receiver. I'm guessing that the devices have been "programmed" to jump to roads instead of staying at their actual location, if/when a road is nearby. The GPS signal itself should certainly be accurate to within 10 feet.

 

[TinCan782]

I frequently take my Tom Tom or Magellan GPS on Amtrak. It works fine so long as I keep it within a few inches of the window. I've found that both of these devices will "jump" to a nearby roadway (from the mapped railroad track) if the road is within about 50 feet of the location of the GPS receiver. I'm guessing that the devices have been "programmed" to jump to roads instead of staying at their actual location, if/when a road is nearby. The GPS signal itself should certainly be accurate to within 10 feet.

That's because its programmed for street/highway use. I use my Garmin GPSmap 64s with Routing set to "Direct" and Lock on Road is set to "No" or disabled. The GPS follows along wherever I am.

 

[railiner]

Hey, what happened to the post from (Guest) Mr. Crabbypants?

I was going to soothe his injured soul by reminding him to read my first post.

1 - I am going to be a Roomette, not in general coach.

2 - I will be using headphones (due to hearing loss from 6 years in a U.S. Navy engineroom).

3 - Anything said over an open and unencrypted radio channel is fair game. I live by that rule. At the power plant where I work almost all of our communications are on a trunked Motorola system that can be picked up by anyone who is curious.

4 - Those of us that take an active interest in our mode of transportation are less of a pain in the butt to those providing it - we can find out what the cause of the delay is and won't be bothering the conductor or attendants with the same question they've just answered a hundred times. And yes, while the cockpit comms are no longer broadcast into the passenger compartment, the whizz-bang new scanner given to me easily picks up ATC and GC transmissions, so I can hear what they are saying from the comfort of my own home. I know licensed pilots, and they have helped me with the vernacular through the years so I am familiar with the stages of flight (taxi, rotation, climb-out, at-altitude directions, initial approach, short final, wheels down on second "patch", taxi, gate arrival). I take interest i any mode of transportation I choose to employ. Otherwise, I would be just like the cattle we load into the trailer when it's time to thin the herd.

5 - Are you an Amtrak employee? Is that why you feel that some form of unspoken etiquette has been breached by those of us who listen in? If that's the case, never say anything out loud you wouldn't want repeated. I learned that a long time ago.

Foamer. What an interesting term! I haven't ridden on a commercial passenger train since the very early 90's (not counting WDW and DL trains and monorails), and I am classed as a fanatic to that level. Wow. Isn't anyone curious as to what goes on in the world around them any more?

Hmmm.....what did I miss? sounds like you are responding to a rant that may have been removed by the administrator's of this board.....

 

[ForGoodReason, Inthegauge]

What you missed was in fact pulled down. For the second time, and for little reason. I presented the question, would those with the burning desire to listen in to communications that are of secure nature appreciate a wiretap on their phones at work? Would those who need to pretend they even know what is being said on these radios be okay with a house guest lifting the other phone off the hook to have a !listen every time they answered a call while hosting said guest?

There is a basket of good reasons the airlines took the channel out of airplanes that let people listen to ATC communications. From a security standpoint, there are as many reasons to not eavesdrop on train crews.

Just sit back, and enjoy the ride without giving in to the stalkerish desire to watch employees always all the time and endlessly. Let them do their jobs, and do yours: sit back, relax, and simply enjoy.

As a footnote: simply presenting an opinion against the grain is NOT a good reason to pull a post down. Nobody is trying to steal your lunch money or knock your books to the hallway floor or pants you in the gym. Administrator: time to accept that your job is to moderate and that does not mean yank down posts that don't always agree with you.

 

[ForGoodReason, Inthegauge]

What you missed was in fact pulled down. For the second time, and for little reason. I presented the question, would those with the burning desire to listen in to communications that are of secure nature appreciate a wiretap on their phones at work? Would those who need to pretend they even know what is being said on these radios be okay with a house guest lifting the other phone off the hook to have a !listen every time they answered a call while hosting said guest?

There is a basket of good reasons the airlines took the channel out of airplanes that let people listen to ATC communications. From a security standpoint, there are as many reasons to not eavesdrop on train crews.

Just sit back, and enjoy the ride without giving in to the stalkerish desire to watch employees always all the time and endlessly. Let them do their jobs, and do yours: sit back, relax, and simply enjoy.

As a footnote: simply presenting an opinion against the grain is NOT a good reason to pull a post down. Nobody is trying to steal your lunch money or knock your books to the hallway floor or pants you in the gym. Administrator: time to accept that your job is to moderate and that does not mean yank down posts that don't always agree with you.

 

[MikefromCrete]

Anything broadcast on the public's airwaves can be listened to. "Security" is a word that is much abused in today's world. I listen to railroad radio broadcasts all the time. I find it interesting. If everybody concerned is professional, there is no reason to fear being overheard. Just do you job and nobody will have any complaints. And don't take up all the space in the cafe car.

 

[jebr]

The communications are over the public airwaves and not encrypted. Therefore, they're meant for some sort of "public" broadcast, or the potential is there that they can be listened to on the public airwaves. You can't pick and choose who can listen to communications over a public, unencrypted airwave.

Now, if it was encrypted (cell phone communications) or it's not meant to be public (phone conversation) then yes, I have an expectation of privacy. I'd be annoyed at a house guest listening to my phone conversations, but I can always unplug that phone, tell them to stop, or kick them out if I don't appreciate it. Ultimately, that call is over a private line, not the public airwaves.

If you need to make a private communication, use a private channel. Should the police be annoyed by someone at home listening to their scanner? Should an amateur radio operator be annoyed by someone listening in to their conversations (assuming they're not communicating without a license?) I'd argue no...as an amateur radio operator myself, if someone listens in to my communications (I haven't used it recently, but have in the past) that's fine...I'm using the public airwaves in an unencrypted fashion.

 

[TinCan782]

Listening in on such communications is generally allowed, what IS prohibited is divulging the contents of the transmissions you hear.

 

[Ryan]

The communications are over the public airwaves and not encrypted. Therefore, they're meant for some sort of "public" broadcast, or the potential is there that they can be listened to on the public airwaves. You can't pick and choose who can listen to communications over a public, unencrypted airwave.

Now, if it was encrypted (cell phone communications) or it's not meant to be public (phone conversation) then yes, I have an expectation of privacy. I'd be annoyed at a house guest listening to my phone conversations, but I can always unplug that phone, tell them to stop, or kick them out if I don't appreciate it. Ultimately, that call is over a private line, not the public airwaves.

If you need to make a private communication, use a private channel. Should the police be annoyed by someone at home listening to their scanner? Should an amateur radio operator be annoyed by someone listening in to their conversations (assuming they're not communicating without a license?) I'd argue no...as an amateur radio operator myself, if someone listens in to my communications (I haven't used it recently, but have in the past) that's fine...I'm using the public airwaves in an unencrypted fashion.

This, a thousand times over.

You have no expectation of privacy when transmitting over the air on a non-encrypted circuit. Don't want people to listen to you? Find another job. Don't want people to take pictures of you or your train? Tough. Find another job if it bothers you that much. There is no such thing as security through obscurity.

 

[trainman74]

There is a basket of good reasons the airlines took the channel out of airplanes that let people listen to ATC communications.

United still has it on some of their aircraft; they don't have it on all their aircraft anymore due to the Continental merger (the ex-Continental aircraft never had it), and the fact that it was incompatible with newer entertainment system setups. Nothing to do with security.

 

[DryCreek]

There is a basket of good reasons the airlines took the channel out of airplanes that let people listen to ATC communications. From a security standpoint, there are as many reasons to not eavesdrop on train crews.

Goodness - what can be such a secret about train movements? Do they really have a stealth mode?

Just sit back, and enjoy the ride without giving in to the stalkerish desire to watch employees always all the time and endlessly. Let them do their jobs, and do yours: sit back, relax, and simply enjoy.

Yup. MOO! Just like cattle. Don't pay attention to anything around you. Load up, sit down, shut up! MOO!

Hey, what does abattoir mean?

 

[RailRide]

Back with some GPS photos...

First on the Pennsylvanian in 2013, using CoPilot on a Samsung Galaxy Player (phone-sized Android tablet)





Notice how the arrow outlining your position very much wants to stick to the nearest road. Only when you're in the middle of nowhere (second photo) does the software "give up" and indicate your actual position on the map.

Contrast this behavior with the same trip a year later. Same train, same device, same software (but with a year's worth of updates):





Now CoPilot follows the tracks much better, even sticking to them when passing road crossings. Before it would jump to the intersecting street/road/highway and slide up or down before jumping to the next nearest street. If the roadway is right next to the tracks, it will snap to it, but once the road curves away, back to the tracks it goes.

And lastly, a shot of my Tablet running Chartcross Ltd's GPS Test during my recent flight to Toronto:



---PCJ