You mean like the one Maxwell Smart used?
Scanners, Radio and other such tech inquiries
- Thread starter Irelandvegas65
- Start date
Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:
since an NiMh cell is 1.2V vs 1.5V in the alkaline, throwing the switch probably accounts for that or allows current flow towards the batteries to recharge if a usb cord was connected. Never really looked to see which.
Devil's Advocate
⠀⠀⠀
Disabling internal charging and adjusting the low battery alert are two of the most common reasons for a battery type switch.
Makes sense, that's what I've generally seen, but never bothered to verify on my radio.
Our little Uniden SC230 racing scanner has the capability to operate on AC power and we always use this feature to save on batteries.
We have our scanner programmed so that one bank has all of the AAR channels while another bank just has the channels for the trains we’ll be riding on. (These are readily available from the On Track On Line site’s radio frequencies lists for each Amtrak train.) While en route, the bank with our trains’ frequencies is the only one that is active.
The On Track On Line frequency lists also indicate when the road frequencies change. We have this information notated on our route map and usually change channels manually. (Sometimes the engineer will radio everyone when he is about to change channels.) If we don’t hear the periodic reports for the automated Radio Alarm Detectors (RADs) we’ll check to make sure that we’re on the correct channel and that it has not be inadvertently “locked out.”
We have our scanner programmed so that one bank has all of the AAR channels while another bank just has the channels for the trains we’ll be riding on. (These are readily available from the On Track On Line site’s radio frequencies lists for each Amtrak train.) While en route, the bank with our trains’ frequencies is the only one that is active.
The On Track On Line frequency lists also indicate when the road frequencies change. We have this information notated on our route map and usually change channels manually. (Sometimes the engineer will radio everyone when he is about to change channels.) If we don’t hear the periodic reports for the automated Radio Alarm Detectors (RADs) we’ll check to make sure that we’re on the correct channel and that it has not be inadvertently “locked out.”
With a scanner app on a phone, you are limited to what is provided by other individuals. Private individuals set up a scanner tuned to some frequency of interest and provide the "feed" to app providers such as Broadcastify or Scanner Radio. Railroad radio is even more limited in scope as compared to public safety listening. You may also notice various amounts of delay (many seconds) between what may be heard on an actual scanner vs an app. It's not really a good substitute for having an actual scanner available.
While an app may not provide the listening you want during train travel, it will allow you to listen in on distant areas. For example, I used an app to listen in on Tucson PD during the shooting on the Sunset Limited recently. I use scanners all the time on my trips and at home. and also use a phone app from time to time as I just mentioned.
Edit to add: With a phone scanner app you need cellular service or wifi.
Last edited:
piedpiper
Train Attendant
I recently upgraded from a Radio Shack PRO-60 to a RS PRO-94. 10 banks to now 20. This is how I programmed it for almost all Amtrak routes, using OTOL site. A PRO-94 can be found on ebay for under $75 usually.
You seemed to have organized your Amtrak frequencies in a most efficient manner. (Do you actually ride on all of these trains?) We use three trains: the Pacific Surfliner, the Southwest Chief, and the Capitol Limited when we travel from San Diego to Ohio and back. Between the three of them, they only use 30 different frequencies, and I’ve combined them all into a single bank on my scanner. (When we're traveling, I keep all of the other banks locked out.) I do have ALL of the AAR Channels programmed into another bank just in case.
Your post also helps to emphasize a very good point, mainly that one doesn’t need to spend a lot of money to obtain a perfectly adequate scanner for taking along on train trips. Being able to listen in on conversations between our train’s crew members, conversations between dispatchers and the engineer, and the periodic reports from radio alarm detectors always makes our trips more interesting. We consider a scanner to be one of the essentials to have along whenever we travel by train. With all the bargain priced scanners to be had on eBay, there is no reason why anyone who wants one can’t have one.
Last edited:
I only program in the routes I am actually taking on a trip...two or three trains Those frequencies are tagged with AAR number for quick access - I just enter the AAR number and the scanner jumps there.
In addition, I always have another group with ALL AAR frequencies tagged with AAR number for quick access, especially if I need a channel not included in the route groups.
Since I follow along the route pretty well and stay parked on the active channel. I do NOT scan any of these groups unless I'm unsure of the channel in use and wish to identify it.
In my System and Groups (think bank*) for trains the Pacific Surfliner and Metrolink is always programmed as well as other local UP, BNSF frequencies of interest. My scanner at home is usually scanning the local RR frequencies, especially the Coast Starlight/Pacific Surfliner/Metrolink line that passes near here.
* my scanners use "DMA" (Dynamic Memory Access) - systems and groups rather than banks.
In addition, I always have another group with ALL AAR frequencies tagged with AAR number for quick access, especially if I need a channel not included in the route groups.
Since I follow along the route pretty well and stay parked on the active channel. I do NOT scan any of these groups unless I'm unsure of the channel in use and wish to identify it.
In my System and Groups (think bank*) for trains the Pacific Surfliner and Metrolink is always programmed as well as other local UP, BNSF frequencies of interest. My scanner at home is usually scanning the local RR frequencies, especially the Coast Starlight/Pacific Surfliner/Metrolink line that passes near here.
* my scanners use "DMA" (Dynamic Memory Access) - systems and groups rather than banks.
Likewise, I tend to organize my scanner with common trips, like banks set up for the Empire Builder and the Starlight.
All banks use AAR channel numbers, with the addition of non-AAR station services and mechanical frequencies appropriate to the route when available, except for the banks set up for Canada trips.
I tend to lock off all channels except the current road channel and don't scan unless I am in the immediate vicinity of a channel rollover or in a station, like LA, where I want to get station services, mechanical as well as road.
Finally, I have one bank (0) that has all AAR frequencies with none locked out that I use if I feel I have lost the road channel and don't feel confident of my reference material. That way i can scan everything until I pick something up. Best used at station stops, as I can usually catch the highball ("Highball, Hicktown, DIB", "Highball") and know I have caught my train on the current road channel.
All banks use AAR channel numbers, with the addition of non-AAR station services and mechanical frequencies appropriate to the route when available, except for the banks set up for Canada trips.
I tend to lock off all channels except the current road channel and don't scan unless I am in the immediate vicinity of a channel rollover or in a station, like LA, where I want to get station services, mechanical as well as road.
Finally, I have one bank (0) that has all AAR frequencies with none locked out that I use if I feel I have lost the road channel and don't feel confident of my reference material. That way i can scan everything until I pick something up. Best used at station stops, as I can usually catch the highball ("Highball, Hicktown, DIB", "Highball") and know I have caught my train on the current road channel.
*********************************
Going to Amazon, Uniden has some scanners for around $100. E-Bay has some used scanners for much less.
If interested, you might want to consider getting an amateur radio technician license. The cost, I think, is $15 and many amateur radio clubs, across the country, will have volunteers to give you a 35 question exam. You can also take the exam online. The exam isn't hard to pass, with sample questions available on line.
2 meter hand held amateur transceiver will pick up ham frequencies as well as the radio frequencies used by trains and Amtrak. They are a few not much more than $100 (Ham Radio Outlet). I like to take along a 2 meter hand-held when I book an Amtrak sleeper. You can get a booklet listing 2 meter repeaters in your state. A lot of fun to talk to hams from your sleeping compartment.
*****************************
I like the photo of your scanner setup in your sleeper, John. I have found just a "rubber duck" antenna, attached to my 2 meter hand-held, can work well for repeater access or train communication reception much of the time. Depending, of course, on the distance of the repeater from your train.
Here is a list of frequencies used by specific Amtrak trains:
https://is.gd/WnwG4l
73's,
Richard
***********************************************************
I like those pictures of your scanner set-up in your sleeper! Yes, bring along an earbud or earphone as to not disturb your neighbor in the sleeper next door. The walls are thin.
I have had pretty good luck accessing and hearing repeaters with just a rubber duck antenna attached to the 2 meter hand-held. Of course, it depends on the distance of the repeater from the train.
Here is a list of communication frequencies for specific Amtrak trains:
https://is.gd/WnwG4l
73's,
Richard
Last edited:
piedpiper
Train Attendant
I have riden on more than 2/3's of the routes as shown in my signature.
Devil's Advocate
⠀⠀⠀
My main use of a scanner is on road trips where I leave it scanning the AAR bank and when it starts making noise I know I'm somewhere near a train. If I see something interesting (bridge, tunnel, yard) maybe I'll park in the area for a bit and listen for anything heading my way. Although I have taken my scanner on Amtrak trips I rarely hear anything interesting that is not communicated over the PA. Usually it's one defect detector after another. Another issue is that I often only hear one side of the conversation or get stuck trying to decipher industry jargon through a southern drawl. Now that topics like where to get a scanner and what to program are pretty well covered I'm wondering if we can get a primer on buying a better antenna and understanding the terminology?
NorthShore
Conductor
The FCC recently imposed a 35 dollar fee (on top of any testing fees for initial licensure) to every application for license or 10 year renewal.
Personally I do fine with the factory rubber ducky antenna, because I am mostly interested in the train I am on. Sometimes the dispatcher conversations are one sided (can't hear the dispatcher), but most anything important from the dispatcher side must be repeated back by the engineer, so I know I will catch it then.
I think I finally understand your antipathy to scanners if you just scan all AAR frequencies. You would get a LOT of extraneous stuff doing that if you are only interested in the operation of your train. Things like the yardmaster talking to someone kicking cars on a yard frequency, freight trains on another railroad entirely, tones and squeals on PBX channels (if there are are any PBX channels still in use). That is why I keep my scanner locked on the current road channel 95% of the time.
There actually isn't that much industry jargon (or I am so immersed in it that I don't notice it as jargon).
The main ones are calling signals, calling slow orders, calling work gangs. On non-CTC lines, such as much of the former SP Coast Line, they will do track warrents over the radio for permission to occupy main track.
Almost all railroads require calling less than clear signal indications, some require calling ALL signal indications (LA's Metrolink comes to mind). The call includes the location which can either be a milepost number or a station name (the proper definition of "station" being a named point on the railroad), such as:
"Advance approach at Ridgefield"
There are a LOT of signal indications, and they vary a little by railroad, I won't list them here. One general rule is any indication with the word "approach" in it means you are approaching a restricted or stop indication somewhere ahead. If they are calling anything less than "clear" you are either following something, about to meet something, or taking a diverging route (diverging routes include sidings or crossing over on multiple main track, as well as taking a different line, such as the Point Defiance Bypass). There are few places where there are permanent than clear indications just to control speed, though.
When talking signals, there are "aspects" which is what the signal is displaying, "red over yellow" and the indication, its meaning, "diverging approach". Sometimes crews call aspects, the majority of the time they call indication.
Calling slow orders is simple, speed and milepost number. "We have a 10 between 352.2 and 352.6" 10 mph slow order between milepost 352.2 and 352.6.
Work gangs, "Amtrak train 11, Calling foreman Smith at Ridgefield." "Foreman Smith, Amtrak train 11, we are in the clear, permission to pass work zone at Ridgefield, track speed, bells and horn".
Trains are officially identified by lead engine number and direction. Amtrak can be somewhat of an exception because they can be informally identified by train number (which had no standing for the host railroad). Official track warrents from the dispatcher will always use the lead engine and direction, "Antrak 42 South". Less formal communication may use the Amtrak train number, or the unit and direction or both. "Amtrak train 11, AMTK 42 South". One UP dispatcher on the Coast Line had the cute habit of calling Amtrak units "Am-tiki", a play on Amtrak's AMTK.
In the clear means no person or equipment is fouling the track. Track speed is maximum authorized speed for that section of track.
The conductor often will acknowledge a signal call by clicking his transmit button a couple times without saying anything. For detectors, sometimes both the engineer and conductor both just click.
Other various things that come to mind, on a station highball, they will usually say "Highball Hicktown on signal indication" or "Highball Hicktown DIB". DIB means Delayed in Block, which means that a signal is not visible from where they are, and they cannot proceed based on the last signal indication because they stopped and things might have changed in the interim. So they have to proceed at restricted speed (able to stop with half the range of vision) until another signal becomes visible.
Another thing that comes to mind is blue flag, which means someone is working on the train and the train cannot be moved at all. Only the worker that placed a blue flag can remove it. Most of the time they aren't fabric flags, but small blue metal sheets on a pole. More durable.
I think I finally understand your antipathy to scanners if you just scan all AAR frequencies. You would get a LOT of extraneous stuff doing that if you are only interested in the operation of your train. Things like the yardmaster talking to someone kicking cars on a yard frequency, freight trains on another railroad entirely, tones and squeals on PBX channels (if there are are any PBX channels still in use). That is why I keep my scanner locked on the current road channel 95% of the time.
There actually isn't that much industry jargon (or I am so immersed in it that I don't notice it as jargon).
The main ones are calling signals, calling slow orders, calling work gangs. On non-CTC lines, such as much of the former SP Coast Line, they will do track warrents over the radio for permission to occupy main track.
Almost all railroads require calling less than clear signal indications, some require calling ALL signal indications (LA's Metrolink comes to mind). The call includes the location which can either be a milepost number or a station name (the proper definition of "station" being a named point on the railroad), such as:
"Advance approach at Ridgefield"
There are a LOT of signal indications, and they vary a little by railroad, I won't list them here. One general rule is any indication with the word "approach" in it means you are approaching a restricted or stop indication somewhere ahead. If they are calling anything less than "clear" you are either following something, about to meet something, or taking a diverging route (diverging routes include sidings or crossing over on multiple main track, as well as taking a different line, such as the Point Defiance Bypass). There are few places where there are permanent than clear indications just to control speed, though.
When talking signals, there are "aspects" which is what the signal is displaying, "red over yellow" and the indication, its meaning, "diverging approach". Sometimes crews call aspects, the majority of the time they call indication.
Calling slow orders is simple, speed and milepost number. "We have a 10 between 352.2 and 352.6" 10 mph slow order between milepost 352.2 and 352.6.
Work gangs, "Amtrak train 11, Calling foreman Smith at Ridgefield." "Foreman Smith, Amtrak train 11, we are in the clear, permission to pass work zone at Ridgefield, track speed, bells and horn".
Trains are officially identified by lead engine number and direction. Amtrak can be somewhat of an exception because they can be informally identified by train number (which had no standing for the host railroad). Official track warrents from the dispatcher will always use the lead engine and direction, "Antrak 42 South". Less formal communication may use the Amtrak train number, or the unit and direction or both. "Amtrak train 11, AMTK 42 South". One UP dispatcher on the Coast Line had the cute habit of calling Amtrak units "Am-tiki", a play on Amtrak's AMTK.
In the clear means no person or equipment is fouling the track. Track speed is maximum authorized speed for that section of track.
The conductor often will acknowledge a signal call by clicking his transmit button a couple times without saying anything. For detectors, sometimes both the engineer and conductor both just click.
Other various things that come to mind, on a station highball, they will usually say "Highball Hicktown on signal indication" or "Highball Hicktown DIB". DIB means Delayed in Block, which means that a signal is not visible from where they are, and they cannot proceed based on the last signal indication because they stopped and things might have changed in the interim. So they have to proceed at restricted speed (able to stop with half the range of vision) until another signal becomes visible.
Another thing that comes to mind is blue flag, which means someone is working on the train and the train cannot be moved at all. Only the worker that placed a blue flag can remove it. Most of the time they aren't fabric flags, but small blue metal sheets on a pole. More durable.
Last edited:
DA, I use a gps for road trips. I have an elderly Garmin that allows me to input my own POIs. I downloaded a list of all grade crossings in California into a spreadsheet, manipulated it to the format Garmin requires, and uploaded it into the gps. I set it to sound whenever I am near one of the crossings. Every time I update the Garmin it erases what I've done so I have to re-upload, a nuisance. This is the CA list, other states should have something similar. It is particularly useful when UP steam comes through here.
One thing to remember is much of what you hear has been written in blood, a legacy of injury and death over 180 years of railroading, some of it recent.
The Delayed in Block rule is recent and adopted as a result of a commuter train coming out of a station stop that it had entered on a clear and ramming a freight train. LA's Metrolink (SCRRA) requires calling ALL signal indications as a direct result of the Chatsworth wreck.
The Delayed in Block rule is recent and adopted as a result of a commuter train coming out of a station stop that it had entered on a clear and ramming a freight train. LA's Metrolink (SCRRA) requires calling ALL signal indications as a direct result of the Chatsworth wreck.
I calibrate mine in furlongs per fortnight. <grin>
" Scanners are receivers and not transmitting devices - can't mess with transmissions "
That's not strictly true. Any superheterodyne receiver contains at least one RF oscillator to convert down to an IF. That oscillator WILL leak RF, and that DOES qualify as a transmitter as it would be detectable beyond the radio itself. If it is poorly designed and/or built, and a lot of the Chinese radios ARE, that leakage COULD be sufficiently strong to interfere with nearby equipment. I'm a ham (55 years) and a pilot (47 years). Many of the really cheap Chinese-built ham handheld radios have incredibly dirty transmitters - as few <5% of one manufacturer's radios that were tested met FCC spectrum purity regulations. You're talking about just receivers, of course, but the quality of their engineering design and production is still relevant.
So if an aircraft cabin attendant says turn off ALL electronic devices, IT INCLUDES THAT SCANNER.
That's not strictly true. Any superheterodyne receiver contains at least one RF oscillator to convert down to an IF. That oscillator WILL leak RF, and that DOES qualify as a transmitter as it would be detectable beyond the radio itself. If it is poorly designed and/or built, and a lot of the Chinese radios ARE, that leakage COULD be sufficiently strong to interfere with nearby equipment. I'm a ham (55 years) and a pilot (47 years). Many of the really cheap Chinese-built ham handheld radios have incredibly dirty transmitters - as few <5% of one manufacturer's radios that were tested met FCC spectrum purity regulations. You're talking about just receivers, of course, but the quality of their engineering design and production is still relevant.
So if an aircraft cabin attendant says turn off ALL electronic devices, IT INCLUDES THAT SCANNER.
Is ebay a good place to buy one?
Last edited:
Do a Google Search - Railroad Scanners
Research the market - eBay ain't the only game out there
Check out buying one direct with all the goody channels already installed - CD download etc.
Check on POWER requirements - battery (rechargeable internal/battery pack) - AC transformer - USB operable
Consider if your travel is on other than trains - airplanes - cruise ships - marine traffic - police/fire/ambulance
Beware some of these modes have restrictions about use - obviously police for one
I have purchased a Radio Shack Pro 2051 on eBay - everything was perfect just as described and price was in the ball park.
BID - and won - everything about it almost new in box - looked the seller found it complicated to program - - -
The Pro 2051 is a base unit (not a portable) therefore has a limited range of reception from my house - works great for aviation -
police/fire calls are now encrypted so not so good in that respect.
I also bought a Radio Shack Pro 164 for travel trips entertainment - this too from eBay awhile back
The Pro 164 is a handy talkie multi trunking channel unit - a devil to program - but once that is done - it has interchangeable antennas -
rubber ducky for travel and fixed based coaxil cable for the house mounted unit - really improves reception.
ABOUT EBAY - check the sellers business ratings - careful if he has a lot of complaints - inquire about return if something isn't right
Retired an old Radio Shack Realistic brand Pro-30 - missed the easier to program key board - but it is a BIG log to haul around.
Both of these portables are quite loud in volume so agree definitely plan on ear phones when used in a public place.
Sadly there is not as much chatter these days unless something dramatic is happening or one is a high transit travel area - railroad junction
railroad yard etc. - on the rails - clickety clack - mile post no defects - Alaska RR wildlife alert - great when leaving i.e. Chicago or big city.
Crews are not so talkative except for strictly business.
Research the market - eBay ain't the only game out there
Check out buying one direct with all the goody channels already installed - CD download etc.
Check on POWER requirements - battery (rechargeable internal/battery pack) - AC transformer - USB operable
Consider if your travel is on other than trains - airplanes - cruise ships - marine traffic - police/fire/ambulance
Beware some of these modes have restrictions about use - obviously police for one
I have purchased a Radio Shack Pro 2051 on eBay - everything was perfect just as described and price was in the ball park.
BID - and won - everything about it almost new in box - looked the seller found it complicated to program - - -
The Pro 2051 is a base unit (not a portable) therefore has a limited range of reception from my house - works great for aviation -
police/fire calls are now encrypted so not so good in that respect.
I also bought a Radio Shack Pro 164 for travel trips entertainment - this too from eBay awhile back
The Pro 164 is a handy talkie multi trunking channel unit - a devil to program - but once that is done - it has interchangeable antennas -
rubber ducky for travel and fixed based coaxil cable for the house mounted unit - really improves reception.
ABOUT EBAY - check the sellers business ratings - careful if he has a lot of complaints - inquire about return if something isn't right
Retired an old Radio Shack Realistic brand Pro-30 - missed the easier to program key board - but it is a BIG log to haul around.
Both of these portables are quite loud in volume so agree definitely plan on ear phones when used in a public place.
Sadly there is not as much chatter these days unless something dramatic is happening or one is a high transit travel area - railroad junction
railroad yard etc. - on the rails - clickety clack - mile post no defects - Alaska RR wildlife alert - great when leaving i.e. Chicago or big city.
Crews are not so talkative except for strictly business.
Here are a couple of links that specifically discuss the use of scanners and monitoring railroads. Commonly shared here is On Track On Line's listing of frequencies for each Amtrak route (On Track On Line - Amtrak Radio Frequencies) but, they also have more general info regarding scanners here: On Track On Line - Scanner Radio
Scannermaster (an online retailer) also provides some general information on the subject here... Scanning the Railroads By Richard Carlson | Scanner Master
Radio Reference has a discussion forum specifically for discussing the monitoring of railroad communications. Railroad/Railfan Monitoring Forum
Scannermaster (an online retailer) also provides some general information on the subject here... Scanning the Railroads By Richard Carlson | Scanner Master
Radio Reference has a discussion forum specifically for discussing the monitoring of railroad communications. Railroad/Railfan Monitoring Forum
Last edited:
Another common question and resulting discussion is the use of scanner "apps" vs an actual radio scanner.
https://www.scannermasterblog.com/radio-scanner-versus-online-police-scanner/
The website Radio Reference has these (and more) discussions as well...
https://forums.radioreference.com/threads/phone-app-vs-hand-held-scanner.301940/https://forums.radioreference.com/threads/real-scanner-vs-phone-app-scanner.366761/
Hope this helps some better understand the difference between and app and an actual scanner.
https://www.scannermasterblog.com/radio-scanner-versus-online-police-scanner/
The website Radio Reference has these (and more) discussions as well...
https://forums.radioreference.com/threads/phone-app-vs-hand-held-scanner.301940/https://forums.radioreference.com/threads/real-scanner-vs-phone-app-scanner.366761/
Hope this helps some better understand the difference between and app and an actual scanner.
